Poll: "Kill the Boy"

I disagree that plot has to be intwined with interactions. I think scenes that help develop characters solely are worth it, and that you are putting forward a rather narrow view of what makes "good storytelling". Any plot that happens in the future will be utterly meaningless if Sansa doesn't even get to know the characters in Winterfell first.

The four things I listed are not filler, those are the four things that actually do serve the story.


That's not a narrow view, it's the crux of storytelling. That's what a story is. A story is not just two people interacting that doesn't serve to drive the plot. That is what is called filler.

Well then I guess I fail to see your complaint. There can't be all those good story bits and yet it's "70% filler" which is just your opinion anyways. Enough people think it's worthwhile contribution to furthering the story for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod, Jon, Stannis, Melisandre ... etc etc. That's a big list of main characters who all benefit from the Winterfell combined story arc. Not filler.

With the exception of Myranda as fleshing her out more (heh), these characters have all been around for three, four, or five seasons. They don't need development, what needs development is their interactions.

But who were the two characters that interacted the most? Ramsay and Roose - two characters whose relationship was established very well several times last season and once again very well earlier this season. The character whose interactions needed to be established was Sansa, but she just kind of sat still and watched Ramsay play his games and Roose have a go at him. The only person she really interacted was Myranda, which ultimately came off as just... weird.

Okay, the idea that we don't need 'character development' for characters who have been on the show since season 1 is ludicrous. The characters are changing as events around them shape their thoughts and actions...of course they need development. If the characters never changed, then that would be terrible storytelling. Jon Snow of season 1 is very, VERY different from the Jon Snow of season 5. Same with all of our main characters. And without those character development scenes, we would never understand why their actions differ from what they did before. Season 1 Jon Snow would never have executed a man begging for mercy. Season 1 Arya would have never murdered a man in cold blood. Season 1 Sansa would have never greeted Lord Bolton with courtesy.

Character development matters just as much, if not more than, plot development. Yes, it's bad when there's too much, but it's just as bad (or worse) to have too little.

Which is funny, since Myranda's jealousy of Sansa is just as understandable (albeit it's on a smaller scale) than Cersei's of Margaery. Those complaints by them are just for the sake of complaining imo.

It depends. It's very complicated and there is a lot we don't know. Before I didn't expect the possibility that the Freys were coming North, which alters my thoughts on the situation.

If Walda's baby causes the Freys to come up to fight Stannis for Walder's grandchild, then this is a very good reason for their sudden appearance. Ramsay being jealous would also a natural byproduct of this which needs to be shown, and Roose becalming him with his ...lovely tale of Ramsay's mother serves a purpose.

However, if the Freys don't come North then Walda's baby only serves to drive Ramsay jealous so we can get this story of Ramsay's mother, then it's an all inclusive circular point in a show jampacked for time that just becomes just filler material because it wouldn't change the Roose-Ramsay dynamic from where the episode began.

It is good getting more backstory on Roose, and developing him more for the audience to understand who he is, but the question remains at what cost? Like I posted before with regards to the Sand Snakes, their entire development was left out. We don't actually get much development of Sansa learning to control Ramsay - which is probably going to happen. She simply comes off as being very passive-aggressive in this dinner scene and I'm not sure what she learns other than Ramsay is an bizarre enigma.

I never said anything about hating character development. What I question is the show's use of time on certain elements in lieu of others. No one in the audience really knows what's the best use of time because we don't know what is coming and how it will look and feel when we get there.

The Tyrion/Tywin scene that this has many parallels with, where Tywin says he refused to drown Tyrion in the sea because he's a Lannister, ultimately comes back around because it drives a rift further between them, Tyrion walks out, and Tyrion eventually kills Tywin over many factors. If certain theories also hold true this scene even more meaning.

I believe how you develop characters right now should drive the story forward. Ramsay and Roose were both on Team Bolton before this episode, and at the conclusion of Winterfell in 5.05 Ramsay... agreed to stay in the same spot and defend their hold on the North. Nothing really changed between their dynamic or developed their relationship except informing the audience more about Roose. But if this is all part of a larger tie in with other things then it fits into a neat little package.

It all depends.

I have a feeling that this is exactly what will happen with Sansa this season.  Just basically Ramsey going a little further with her than Joffrey ever had.

Filler Material = Anything that isn't in the books that I don't like