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Post by breakfest on May 9, 2016 9:31:19 GMT
Al's Mr. Pacing Any episode with more than five storylines in it is shit in his book these days.  But yeah. It must be opposite day or something. The pacing was a lot better than in the first episode, though.  Maybe Al needs to rewatch it.  I wouldn't say a lot better at all, it's an issue when two of your most prominent storylines (KL and Dany) essentially go nowhere. Also you can forgive pacing issues in a premiere a lot more than in episode 3. But it was still good, could revise my own score on rewatch, and you can see where the setup will pay off pretty soon. |
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Post by Zadeth on May 9, 2016 10:36:09 GMT
7. KL - High Sparrow scenes were alright. The Small Council scene was great though, glad to see Kevan there taking power to further unravel Cersei. Olenna was great, and Mace was Mace.  Qyburn's scene with the Little Birds was good, but they're meant to have their tongues cut out... Mereen - Tyrion and co scene was boring, but the Varys scene was great. Vaes Dothrak - nothing special, but nothing bad. The Wall - great all round, sad to see Ser Alliser go even though he's an asshole. House of Black and White - good enough scenes, the Waif looks scared that Arya has finally beaten her. TOJ - great scene, just sad we didn't see Dawn. Hype at Lyanna screaming in childbirth though. Beyond the Wall - nice to see Bran and Bloodraven. I can definitely see Bran defying BR and staying longer in visions/going on his own, and that is probably how he'll discover R+L=J. Winterfell - great scene, loved Umber. Sad about Shaggydog. I hope Osha survives. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 9, 2016 10:53:27 GMT
Just rewatched it and this goes from an 8 to a 9. It's pretty amazing.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 10:59:34 GMT
Just rewatched it and this goes from an 8 to a 9. It's pretty amazing. That's what the rewatch did for me too. A lot of the problems that I noticed the first time around were overwritten by the nuances and interesting moments I picked up on delving into it once again. Though I imagine it'll still be rememered as being on the lower end of the rating spectrum, after my reassessment, I certainly wouldn't place it there anymore. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 9, 2016 11:02:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 11:06:16 GMT
It's interesting that a lot of people seem to glance over the Arya scene, because to me it was one of the highlights of the episode. But then again, Arya's S5 is among my three favourite storylines of last season, although not a lot of people seemed to care for it.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 11:14:41 GMT
It's interesting that a lot of people seem to glance over the Arya scene, because to me it was one of the highlights of the episode. But then again, Arya's S5 is among my three favourite storylines of last season, although not a lot of people seemed to care for it. The sequence was done well. We moved through a lot of training quite fast. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 11:32:46 GMT
fuck yeh young Ned  *AHEM* Well this was a bit of a choppy episode, and i agree with those who have pointed out the pacing issues. It seemed very mediocre for some reason, even though it contained some of the most exciting things IN THE WHOLE SERIES. Jon and Davos scene, with a bit of Mel peppered in was excellent (and seeing Kit's arse ). Really got a gist of where jon's at, the shock, the horror, the confusion. I liked how Davos makes him slowly accept what has happened. Also Tormund's line  best ice breaker ever. Him and Edd hugging  Thought the hanging of the traitors was appropriate. Jon caring naught for 'revenge' but instead, justice, was great. Olly's smug face was almost too much. Jon leaving the night's watch was no surprise, still a great moment for his character. All hail Lord Commander Edd Tollett!!  Sam and Gilly scene. Good to see them again, but the scene was quite long and boring, everything seemed a little too happy for Gilly. I think it's only downhill from here. Can't wait to see Horn hill though! Mereen + Vaes Dothrak. The Varys scene was phenomenal. Omg it was the second best scene of the episode for me. I could have done without Tyrion's long and boring scene, but Peter has to be in every episode doesn't he?  Good to hear who was behind the Harpy attacks, and i had speculated that 'green whore' would play some part so i'm glad they followed up on that one. Dany's scene was okay, i thought that at least the scene served a purpose to tell the audience what is awaiting Dany. Even though Drogon is going to burn the Khals  seems like wasting time. Although i hope Dany learns something from the dosh khaleen there. KL. Omg Qyburn is a nice lad isn't he? Giving sweets to poor little children I actually liked that scene, and the follow up from Varys talking about the little birds was heavy foreshadowing imo that some of the little birds Qyburn is recruiting will turn on him. Scene with Tommen and High Sparrow was great, nice to see the young boy show some acting chops. The council meeting was fucking savage, Kevin and Olenna threw some serious shade at Cersei Lena's reaction to Olenna saying "you're not the queen" was priceless. Arya's scenes were fantastic! I've been waiting for her montage scenes for ages . Fuck me. The scene where she finally gets the upper hand on the Waif and she is telling her Arya's story were my favourite scenes this episode. I guess we will be seeing a new Arya next episode of episode 5. Then... the Winterfell scenes happened. Wtf. Just why? WHY. That Umber is such a bastard. They actually fucking killed shaggydog. Jesus, Rickon looks like an adult Oh man, both Osha and Rickon = dead. NOOOOO i didn't want that. TOJ. The fight between Arthur Dayne and Ned's men is one of the best fights of the series. I loved it. Brans scenes have been amazing so far. Damn, everyone wanted to see Lyanna, bloodraven, why you gotta be a party pooper I just thought this episode was weaker in general, and even though i was hyped for TOJ, something felt off about the moment. I think breaking it up was a mistake. Maybe it was because they didn't let the scene breathe- it felt rushed.. 7/10 |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 9, 2016 11:34:39 GMT
It's interesting that a lot of people seem to glance over the Arya scene, because to me it was one of the highlights of the episode. But then again, Arya's S5 is among my three favourite storylines of last season, although not a lot of people seemed to care for it. I hear you, brother. Arya's scene was impeccable. When Arya says to the Waif "Which name would you like a girl to speak?" in full-on Linda Blair in the Exorcist mode, and you see the Waif ever-so-slightly losing her cool and becoming nervous.... man, I got a shiver. Love how Arya's instinctive hatred of the Waif basically brings her back to life. And how she dissociates from "Arya Stark" and is able to see things objectively for the first time (she admits she both did and didn't want the Hound to die, which I think is the truth of the matter). Awesome scene. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:01:50 GMT
It's interesting that a lot of people seem to glance over the Arya scene, because to me it was one of the highlights of the episode. But then again, Arya's S5 is among my three favourite storylines of last season, although not a lot of people seemed to care for it. I hear you, brother. Arya's scene was impeccable. When Arya says to the Waif "Which name would you like a girl to speak?" in full-on Linda Blair in the Exorcist mode, and you see the Waif ever-so-slightly losing her cool and becoming nervous.... man, I got a shiver. Love how Arya's instinctive hatred of the Waif basically brings her back to life. And how she dissociates from "Arya Stark" and is able to see things objectively for the first time (she admits she both did and didn't want the Hound to die, which I think is the truth of the matter). Awesome scene. I'm in agreement here and it was really the subtle clues and reveals we got from Arya's amazing fighting/training montage that upped the rank of this episode overall despite my emotions being far more raw from ToJ anticipation and Jon Snow justice. That scene with the Waif was incredibly well done - their fight work was great even though they flashed around a lot. I think the general audience was giving "Fuck yeah Arya!" fist-pumps there for sure. I am most intrigued by the "lie/truth" about Jon being her brother/half-brother that seemed to throw the Waif off. That was definitely a nod towards ToJ part 2. |
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Post by breakfest on May 9, 2016 12:08:05 GMT
I am most intrigued by the "lie/truth" about Jon being her brother/half-brother that seemed to throw the Waif off. That was definitely a nod towards ToJ part 2. That was pretty clever actually, because casually you'd think 'Oh well it's because he's her half-brother' but if you read it as the Waif not being entirely sure what the truth actually is it's yet another subtle hint to R+L=J. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:13:03 GMT
I am most intrigued by the "lie/truth" about Jon being her brother/half-brother that seemed to throw the Waif off. That was definitely a nod towards ToJ part 2. That was pretty clever actually, because casually you'd think 'Oh well it's because he's her half-brother' but if you read it as the Waif not being entirely sure what the truth actually is it's yet another subtle hint to R+L=J. Tbh I don't think it had anything to do with Jon not being Ned's son. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:21:43 GMT
That was pretty clever actually, because casually you'd think 'Oh well it's because he's her half-brother' but if you read it as the Waif not being entirely sure what the truth actually is it's yet another subtle hint to R+L=J. Tbh I don't think it had anything to do with Jon not being Ned's son. It totally had everything to do with it, otherwise why emphasize that at all? The Waif can 'sense' Arya's lies. Technically that's a lie, but not because she called him a 'brother' instead of 'half-brother' but because he's not her brother at all. If we want to really nitpick we could say there's no way The Waif would know this was a lie because Arya doesn't know Jon isn't her brother either. I think this was purposely done as part of foreshadowing about Jon. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:31:47 GMT
Tbh I don't think it had anything to do with Jon not being Ned's son. It totally had everything to do with it, otherwise why emphasize that at all? The Waif can 'sense' Arya's lies. Technically that's a lie, but not because she called him a 'brother' instead of 'half-brother' but because he's not her brother at all. If we want to really nitpick we could say there's no way The Waif would know this was a lie because Arya doesn't know Jon isn't her brother either. I think this was purposely done as part of foreshadowing about Jon. Doesn't it go like this Arya: "She had four brothers" SLAP Arya: "She had three brothers - Robb, Bran, and Rickon. And halfbrother Jon." NO SLAP Of course it was a subtle hint to R+L=J, but the Faceless Men have no idea of it. The Waif can sense when Arya is lying to her, even if she thinks she's telling the truth. Which is why she always gets smacked down for saying she hated Sandor. Deep down Arya knows that she shouldn't list Jon as his brother because he's a bastard. It's a westerosi custom not to count bastards. So the waif slaps Arya when she says Jon is her brother, because she can sense that Arya knows that she shouldn't list Jon as his brother. The Faceless Men have no idea of Jon's true parentage, they just know when Arya lies. And even if they did know, they wouldn't hit her because she doesn't know about it. Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:53:05 GMT
I'm giving this a 9. A lot of slower paced episodes are among my favourites. I still remember when 3x06 aired and everyone was disappointed, but it turned out to be one of my favourite GoT episodes ever. It's a similar feeling here. Three scenes really impressed me: - Tower of Joy. In addition to the thrill of seeing something onscreen that I've imagined for so long (including the unexpected twist), I just have to say that this was beautifully filmed. It looked amazing. Furthermore, they cast the perfect actors for this scene. Young Ned was brilliant. I also have to say the same I said after 6x02, seeing Isaac again is so good. I always had a soft spot for Bran in my heart. Isaac has great camera presence and I love his voice. The fact they split ToJ didn't bother me, because I do think the reveal needs to come a bit later in the season and it's nice that they are slowly building up to it. - Arya. The little details that Archie mentioned really make this scene for me. I'm glad they "listened" to Nezzer and went for a training montage.  Also, how cool is it that Arya can now drink from that water, because she is no-one. This has so much symbolic meaning. Nothing (=death) can't hurt her anymore, because she basically becomes nothing/death herself. - Jon. That end scene gave me shivers and it subtely shows that he has changed. He executed the mutineers, although he already knew he would give up his post as Lord Commander. Also, he didn't leave through a loophole. He left because he simply didn't give a fuck anymore. His last line was very powerful. I just hope that he doesn't leave Castle Black before Sansa arrives there. I also really liked:- King's Landing. Cersei's little speech to Qyburn was very ominous and promising. I loved the Shade Council. The best scene in KL was the conversation between Tommen and the High Sparrow, though. Loved that little theology lesson. Again, Dean really sticked out with his performance. Will Tommen somehow turn against his mother? - Winterfell. I'm already dreading the direction this storyline could take (pls no fucking torture scenes; if Ramsay has to kill someone, make it quick), but this scene was really effective and IMO made a lot of sense. The Smalljon is an asshole and a badass at the same time. Iwan did a great job as always. RIP Shaggydog. The other scenes were just setup, but I don't mind that. Setup is part of this show and my second favourite season (the third season) largely consists of setup and I still loved it. It's necessary for the payoff to make sense. Gilly/Sam, Daenerys and Meereen will probably be more satisfying when we see that payoff. The dialogue was in-character, there were no logic or continuity issues and no controversy, so I see no reason why these scenes would bring down the rating for an otherwise brilliant episode. I cannot give this less than a 9. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:54:13 GMT
It totally had everything to do with it, otherwise why emphasize that at all? The Waif can 'sense' Arya's lies. Technically that's a lie, but not because she called him a 'brother' instead of 'half-brother' but because he's not her brother at all. If we want to really nitpick we could say there's no way The Waif would know this was a lie because Arya doesn't know Jon isn't her brother either. I think this was purposely done as part of foreshadowing about Jon. Doesn't it go like this Arya: "She had four brothers" SLAP Arya: "She had three brothers - Robb, Bran, and Rickon. And halfbrother Jon." NO SLAP Of course it was a subtle hint to R+L=J, but the Faceless Men have no idea of it. The Waif can sense when Arya is lying to her, even if she thinks she's telling the truth. Which is why she always gets smacked down for saying she hated Sandor. Deep down Arya knows that she shouldn't list Jon as his brother because he's a bastard. It's a westerosi custom not to count bastards. So the waif slaps Arya when she says Jon is her brother, because she can sense that Arya knows that she shouldn't list Jon as his brother. The Faceless Men have no idea of Jon's true parentage, they just know when Arya lies. And even if they did know, they wouldn't hit her because she doesn't know about it. Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant. That's not how I see it being hinted at though. I see it as a momentary bit of confusion on the waif's part because in Arya's mind, what she said the second time WAS the truth, therefore no smack given. Arya thought it was a technicality - does that make sense? The audience knows it's far more than just the exclusion of 'half' in the brother part and that's why it was an important moment in the game ... if they weren't emphasizing that, it wouldn't really have mattered what Arya said in her game. They've been doing this game for awhile now and the audience knows what to expect. Deep down Arya knows she didn't really want Sandor dead and so she told the truth on that. She thinks she's telling the truth about Jon Snow too, which is why she passes that bit. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:55:59 GMT
I'm giving this a 9. A lot of slower paced episodes are among my favourites. I still remember when 3x06 aired and everyone was disappointed, but it turned out to be one of my favourite GoT episodes ever. It's a similar feeling here. Three scenes really impressed me: - Tower of Joy. In addition to the thrill of seeing something onscreen that I've imagined for so long (including the unexpected twist), I just have to say that this was beautifully filmed. It looked amazing. Furthermore, they cast the perfect actors for this scene. Young Ned was brilliant. I also have to say the same I said after 6x02, seeing Isaac again is so good. I always had a soft spot for Bran in my heart. Isaac has great camera presence and I love his voice. The fact they split ToJ didn't bother me, because I do think the reveal needs to come a bit later in the season and it's nice that they are slowly building up to it. - Arya. The little details that Archie mentioned really make this scene for me. I'm glad they "listened" to Nezzer and went for a training montage. Also, how cool is it that Arya can now drink from that water, because she is no-one. This has so much symbolic meaning. Nothing (=death) can't hurt her anymore, because she basically becomes nothing/death herself. - Jon. That end scene gave me shivers and it subtely shows that he has changed. He executed the mutineers, although he already knew he would give up his post as Lord Commander. Also, he didn't leave through a loophole. He left because he simply didn't give a fuck anymore. His last line was very powerful. I just hope that he doesn't leave Castle Black before Sansa arrives there. I also really liked:- King's Landing. Cersei's little speech to Qyburn was very ominous and promising. I loved the Shade Council. The best scene in KL was the conversation between Tommen and the High Sparrow, though. Loved that little theology lesson. Again, Dean really sticked out with his performance. Will Tommen somehow turn against his mother? - Winterfell. I'm already dreading the direction this storyline could take (pls no fucking torture scenes; if Ramsay has to kill someone, make it quick), but this scene was really effective and IMO made a lot of sense. The Smalljon is an asshole and a badass at the same time. Iwan did a great job as always. RIP Shaggydog. The other scenes were just setup, but I don't mind that. Setup is part of this show and my second favourite season (the third season) largely consists of setup and I still loved it. It's necessary for the payoff to make sense. Gilly/Sam, Daenerys and Meereen will probably be more satisfying when we see that payoff. The dialogue was in-character, there were no logic or continuity issues and no controversy, so I see no reason why these scenes would bring down the rating for an otherwise brilliant episode. I cannot give this less than a 9. Yeah, I think everything was pretty great, save for Sam & Gilly and Dany. |
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Rate 6x03
May 9, 2016 13:41:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 13:41:17 GMT
That was pretty clever actually, because casually you'd think 'Oh well it's because he's her half-brother' but if you read it as the Waif not being entirely sure what the truth actually is it's yet another subtle hint to R+L=J. Tbh I don't think it had anything to do with Jon not being Ned's son. That's absolutely what is was about. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 13:45:25 GMT
Tbh I don't think it had anything to do with Jon not being Ned's son. That's absolutely what is was about. Depends how you mean it. It clearly was a hint made by writers, but in-universe the FM have no idea of Jon's parentage, so I don't think we should take it as such. Waif only punches Arya when she lies. |
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Post by lordcarson on May 9, 2016 15:46:20 GMT
I HAVE CHANGED TO A 9 As a full episode, yeah it was pretty choppy, but every scene on its own was actually really well done. Even Tyrion's scene, as unnecessary as it was, revealed some interesting stuff. This shit ain't the same as King's Landing. But yeah it could have been half as long as it was. Plus I'm the only one here who likes Grey Worm and Missandei but yeah way better on a second watch |
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Maybe Al needs to rewatch it. 
Death to the Smalljon!
best ice breaker ever. Him and Edd hugging 
Thought the hanging of the traitors was appropriate. Jon caring naught for 'revenge' but instead, justice, was great. Olly's smug face was almost too much. Jon leaving the night's watch was no surprise, still a great moment for his character. All hail Lord Commander Edd Tollett!! 
Good to hear who was behind the Harpy attacks, and i had speculated that 'green whore' would play some part so i'm glad they followed up on that one.
seems like wasting time. Although i hope Dany learns something from the dosh khaleen there.
Also, how cool is it that Arya can now drink from that water, because she is no-one. This has so much symbolic meaning. Nothing (=death) can't hurt her anymore, because she basically becomes nothing/death herself. 
