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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 2:26:56 GMT
I'm going to do a re-watch... I think I really did not absorb some of this episode properly. I have a lot of questions on this one.
Tower of Joy definitely bumped this up from being a lower score for me but I'm not sure yet. I'm miffed they cut it in half even though I already knew from our speculation they were going to due to filming evidence put together by our super sleuths. It still rankled.
I did like Arya's scene and all of Jon/Davos/Edd/Tormund/Wall .... but really not much else. I'm still not sure what I thought of the Smalljon.
Yep I am doing a re-watch before I rate this one. Very confused.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 2:27:58 GMT
I think everyone knew that Lyanna went willingly. They just didn't say it in front of Robert. Ned told his children the truth Robert believed, or rather wanted to believe. Sansa certainly thinks Lyanna was raped. Years after Robert has been dead. The scene with her and LF in the crypt was before the show tonight in fact. I think once Ned decided he was going with the lie that Jon was his son, he was just going to go all the way. let people believe what they wanted to believe because this helped him cover his biggest lie, Jon. |
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Post by kingeomer on May 9, 2016 2:32:18 GMT
Sansa certainly thinks Lyanna was raped. Years after Robert has been dead. The scene with her and LF in the crypt was before the show tonight in fact. I think once Ned decided he was going with the lie that Jon was his son, he was just going to go all the way. let people believe what they wanted to believe because this helped him cover his biggest lie, Jon. I think Ned lied about how Howland saved his life to protect Howland's reputation. And like you said, once he lied about Jon, it probably was easier to not be clear as to how Arthur Dayne died. I do believe that Ned probably really thought Lyanna was raped (unless ToJ gives a part 2 that is more clear than what the conversation was in the books) and therefore that's why Sansa believes it. But if Ned never talked about her(as Sansa and Bran both noted)...did the kids hear that from him...or someone else? |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 2:35:44 GMT
I think once Ned decided he was going with the lie that Jon was his son, he was just going to go all the way. let people believe what they wanted to believe because this helped him cover his biggest lie, Jon. I think Ned lied about how Howland saved his life to protect Howland's reputation. And like you said, once he lied about Jon, it probably was easier to not be clear as to how Arthur Dayne died. I do believe that Ned probably really thought Lyanna was raped (unless ToJ gives a part 2 that is more clear than what the conversation was in the books) and therefore that's why Sansa believes it. But if Ned never talked about her(as Sansa and Bran both noted)...did the kids hear that from him...or someone else? They could have heard it from their mother or a number of other people gossiping about it. I'm sure that was a very big deal in Westeros. Ned just never bothered to clarify the rumors, I think. He could have thought at first that his sister was raped but I think she might have managed to tell him the truth before she died. |
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Post by kingeomer on May 9, 2016 2:39:19 GMT
I think Ned lied about how Howland saved his life to protect Howland's reputation. And like you said, once he lied about Jon, it probably was easier to not be clear as to how Arthur Dayne died. I do believe that Ned probably really thought Lyanna was raped (unless ToJ gives a part 2 that is more clear than what the conversation was in the books) and therefore that's why Sansa believes it. But if Ned never talked about her(as Sansa and Bran both noted)...did the kids hear that from him...or someone else? The could have heard it from their mother or a number of other people gossiping about it. I'm sure that was a very big deal in Westeros. Ned use never bothered to clarify the rumors, I think. He could have thought at first that his sister was raped but I think she might have managed to tell him the truth before she died. You are probably right. I do remember in Catelyn chapter in the first book when the rumors going around Winterfell were that Ashara Dayne was the mother of Jon Snow that Catelyn said that it was the only time Ned scared her and he "handled it" as in the words Ashara Dayne was never uttered by anyone in Winterfell again. I am curious to see what Part 2 on the show reveals. |
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Post by mattpeto on May 9, 2016 2:44:18 GMT
10.
Definitely a couple of slow scenes (Tyrion/Lannister council), but...
Several moments had me shaking. The Tower of Joy and the stuff at the Wall was phenomenal. Jon walking out was so badass, although I wished Ghost was walking by his side. I also enjoyed the Arya stuff finally.
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Post by barristanwhitebeard on May 9, 2016 2:58:50 GMT
It's a 7 for me. Good episode, with a lot of setup and some pretty slow parts. Tower of Joy and everything at The Wall were fantastic. Luckily next week is Dany's big epic scene, because her storyline is the weakest so far this season, IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 3:11:01 GMT
It's a 7 for me. Good episode, with a lot of setup and some pretty slow parts. Tower of Joy and everything at The Wall were fantastic. Luckily next week is Dany's big epic scene, because her storyline is the weakest so far this season, IMHO. Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. |
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Post by barristanwhitebeard on May 9, 2016 3:12:25 GMT
It's a 7 for me. Good episode, with a lot of setup and some pretty slow parts. Tower of Joy and everything at The Wall were fantastic. Luckily next week is Dany's big epic scene, because her storyline is the weakest so far this season, IMHO. Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. Maybe you're right. It's probably because I'm an Arya fanboy, so I'm biased.  But Dany's scene today was pretty pointless, IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 3:17:57 GMT
Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. Maybe you're right. It's probably because I'm an Arya fanboy, so I'm biased. But Dany's scene today was pretty pointless, IMHO. A lot of the scenes were tonight tbh. Oh well, have to set things up I guess. |
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Post by day dreamer on May 9, 2016 3:19:38 GMT
I gave it a 7. More build, I'm hoping the rest of the seasons mirrors episode 2 pacing wise. LIKED Tower of Joy, though peeved it was split in 2 parts. I always figured Howland stabbed him in the back like that. I also liked that it shows Ned wasn't always as honorable as everyone said he was. Varys doing his thing. For such an amusing character his suggestions are pretty damn intimidating. Tyrion's awkward drinking game suggestions, and the confirmation that Grey Worm and Missandei's relationship is as vanilla as I think it is. The final look on Dany's face after the Dosh Kaleen tell her the Dothraki will decide her fate...bitches be burning soon. LITTLE SAM AGED! And I liked hearing Gilly refer to Sam as his father. Everything about The Wall - stand out story this season. Catelyn mention! Smalljon was pretty damn funny. DISLIKE Shaggydog  That depressed me so much that I couldn't even get excited about Olly hanging. Also slightly peeved Ghost didn't get to kill him. The mention of Ellaria taking over Dorne...gah, make it stop. Jaime and Cersei make a shit team. Seriously, wtf are they doing with Jaime right now? It's awful. |
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Post by freypies on May 9, 2016 3:19:55 GMT
It's a 7 for me. Good episode, with a lot of setup and some pretty slow parts. Tower of Joy and everything at The Wall were fantastic. Luckily next week is Dany's big epic scene, because her storyline is the weakest so far this season, IMHO. Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. Arya's scenes are some of my favourites this season :/ I like the slow but steady progression that goes on in each of them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 3:24:04 GMT
I gave it a 7. I thought that was a strange episode in terms of pacing and editing, but I thought parts of it were definitely better than others. The strongest parts were definitely the scenes at the Wall, the conversation between the High Sparrow and Tommen, and the Tower of Joy. Which I expected to be split into two parts because of the way the WF flashback was last episode. I agree with breakfest though, I feel like they should start getting back to have more centric based episodes because that at least allows storylines to breath a bit more instead of being so compacted. But I think we'll see that more in 604 and 605. |
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Post by Nezzer on May 9, 2016 3:24:19 GMT
It's a 7 for me. Good episode, with a lot of setup and some pretty slow parts. Tower of Joy and everything at The Wall were fantastic. Luckily next week is Dany's big epic scene, because her storyline is the weakest so far this season, IMHO. Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. I think Arya was decent tonight, she finally got a training montage of sorts. Dany was just a yawnfest, dealing only with some boring witches who only said stupid shit nobody cares about. Tyrion's scene was completely pointless, probably just to give him enough screentime to fulfill some clause in his contract, but Varys saved that storyline with his brilliant scene. I missed this ruthless Varys we hadn't seen since season 1. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 3:26:26 GMT
Arya's is way worse imo. Just even seeing the Dothraki and those landscapes beats watching Arya train over and over again. Dany was pretty badass in 6x01 too. Arya's scenes are some of my favourites this season :/ I like the slow but steady progression that goes on in each of them. Each their own I suppose. Too repetitive for me. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 4:28:48 GMT
After my re-watch, I'm going with an 8. It falls short due to pacing issues and a couple needless scenes that felt like time fillers more than anything, especially Tyrion's scene. As much as I usually love him. But, when I lay out the bits I loved vs. didn't, it still averages higher overall. High Points: - Everything between Jon and Davos, Jon and Tormund, Jon and Edd. Brutal hangings. Uncomfortably graphic. - Sam & Gilly - good to see them and nice setting for their trip. I enjoyed her calling Sam the father of her son. - Tower of Joy - Gorgeous filming, amazing fighting choreography, good dialogue. Actor for Arthur Dayne was HOT!  - Bran & Bloodraven - nice suspense on BR's true motives. He did at least confirm Bran wasn't staying in the cave. - Tommen and High Sparrow - I appreciated this scene, more good Tommen acting, more awesome High Sparrow manipulation. - Arya / Waif Training and Truth Game - much much more solid than past bits. Some cool things revealed here too. - Smalljon/Karstark/Ramsay - great scene even though I hated the ending with Osha/Rickon/Shaggy Head.  Mediocre Bits: - Dany and the Dosh Khaleen - this probably surprises most since I'm a big Daenerys fan but I felt this scene was a little long for what little it revealed. It's setup obviously for bigger things to come next episode, but I wasn't a big fan of what little was said between her and the head honcho witch. - Varys and the Green woman - though this revealed a lot, I wasn't a fan of the slow pace and dialogue even for clever Varys. It took re-watch for me to really get it so I think this may confuse general audience a bit... tailed by even worse scene with Tyrion. Not So Great Bits: - Tyrion/Missandei/Grey Worm scene was painfully dull and slow. Even Peter couldn't salvage that one. - Little birds/Qyburn - ok scene - also somewhat vague but intentionally so. Cersei/Jaime didn't really help. Ser Gregor's glare at Jaime did make it better. - Small Council scene - It didn't help the already slow pace of the episode. I think the episode suffered from so many things crammed into a short period of time, though it still felt slow at times. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 4:36:16 GMT
I just wish Bloodraven was more ambiguous character, rather than ASOIAF's version of Yoda.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 4:41:09 GMT
Tyrion/Missandei/Grey Worm scene was painfully dull and slow. Even Peter couldn't salvage that one. Yeah I think they could have utilized that small amount of time in another storyline. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 9, 2016 4:43:00 GMT
Another strong episode. Not as great as "Home" but still excellent.
Started off clunky (Tower of Joy was a bit of a mess), but it grew and grew and by the end it was downright amazing - Tommen and High Sparrow, Arya, the Wall. Fantastic stuff.
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Post by freypies on May 9, 2016 4:43:04 GMT
9
Amazing episode for me.
There were five standout scenes:
- Tower of Joy's choreography was probably the best the show has ever had.
- The High Sparrow's crafty manipulation of Tommen
- Arya's montage in THoBaW
- Lil' Umber and his to the point approach
- Best episode ender for Season 6 thus far. I thought it sounded a little corny from the way our Spanish doctor friend described it, but it was perfectly done in the show.
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But Dany's scene today was pretty pointless, IMHO.
