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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 18, 2019 14:26:09 GMT
Ygritte: "They're not your lands, we've been here the whole time. You lot came along and just put up a big wall and said it was yours." Tormund's: "I'm taking my people home." Where? The frozen wasteland with no textiles/agriculture? All you wanted was land and safety. Jon gave you that. What are you going back North? Because they've learned how to live there over hundreds of years. The Wildling's problem (at least this "generation" anyway) wasn't the inhospitality of the land north of the Wall, it was the White Walkers. That threat no longer exists, so they can go back home now. Real gratitude shown there by the Wildlings... |
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 18, 2019 15:16:51 GMT
Because they've learned how to live there over hundreds of years. The Wildling's problem (at least this "generation" anyway) wasn't the inhospitality of the land north of the Wall, it was the White Walkers. That threat no longer exists, so they can go back home now. Real gratitude shown there by the Wildlings... Like Tormund says, his people need space. They don't want to live by the ways of the Seven Kingdoms and (although the show doesn't really show it) the northerners, and people of Westeros at large probably aren't to find of the idea that these "savages" are going to be mingling with the decent folks south of the wall. Honestly, of all the issues in the show, the Free Folk heading back up North makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, yeah sure, maybe wait till after winter, when you can take some provisions, and give the animals in the north a chance to recover after years of undead mobs slaughtering anything that moved. But yeah, you can't expect them to address everything... I learned that years ago. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 18, 2019 16:06:16 GMT
Maybe Tormund just wants to go home though? You can think that's weak motivation but it's been established more than once that he doesn't like "the south". Characters don't have to be totally rational all of the time; he's just nostalgic for home. I mean out of all the plot developments in these last two episodes, Tormund returning home seems like one of the more reasonable to me. I thought it was well established that aside from the White Walkers, the Wildlings wanted to be able to share the inhabitable land south of the wall. I would have to imagine their haste moving south was also due to the fact that people wouldn't be able to survive that far north during the winter. Whatever animals are even left up there must be hibernating. It just felt like an orchestrated 'we have to go because there are only two episodes left' moment to me. Far from the biggest issue in the writing, but it's just that the writing is littered with moments like this.  |
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 18, 2019 22:42:02 GMT
Real gratitude shown there by the Wildlings... Like Tormund says, his people need space. They don't want to live by the ways of the Seven Kingdoms and (although the show doesn't really show it) the northerners, and people of Westeros at large probably aren't to find of the idea that these "savages" are going to be mingling with the decent folks south of the wall. Honestly, of all the issues in the show, the Free Folk heading back up North makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, yeah sure, maybe wait till after winter, when you can take some provisions, and give the animals in the north a chance to recover after years of undead mobs slaughtering anything that moved. But yeah, you can't expect them to address everything... I learned that years ago. I meant more “where is the reciprocity?” After all the help they get they just fuck off and leave everyone in the lurch |
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Post by kingeomer on May 19, 2019 12:45:57 GMT
DaveyJoe, I am not sure if it was addressed in the show but the books definitely said that Ned and Benjen were working on a plan to have the wildings settle in that inhospitable land south of wall.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 19, 2019 22:49:55 GMT
DaveyJoe , I am not sure if it was addressed in the show but the books definitely said that Ned and Benjen were working on a plan to have the wildings settle in that inhospitable land south of wall. No, it was plans to settle The Gift, not with Wildlingsthough. Mance Rayder was considered a major threat to the North, they had no intention of welcoming the Wildlings |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 0:21:35 GMT
DaveyJoe , I am not sure if it was addressed in the show but the books definitely said that Ned and Benjen were working on a plan to have the wildings settle in that inhospitable land south of wall. No, it was plans to settle The Gift, not with Wildlingsthough. Mance Rayder was considered a major threat to the North, they had no intention of welcoming the Wildlings Didn't Jon start forging alliances/marriages between Wildlings and Northerners? With offers of land? I have to reread the books but I was hoping to do that before an imminent TWOW release... |
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Post by Enid on May 20, 2019 8:31:35 GMT
No, it was plans to settle The Gift, not with Wildlingsthough. Mance Rayder was considered a major threat to the North, they had no intention of welcoming the Wildlings Didn't Jon start forging alliances/marriages between Wildlings and Northerners? With offers of land? I have to reread the books but I was hoping to do that before an imminent TWOW release... He married Alys Karstark to a Thenn so she could reclaim her home, yes. |
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 20, 2019 12:33:40 GMT
No, it was plans to settle The Gift, not with Wildlingsthough. Mance Rayder was considered a major threat to the North, they had no intention of welcoming the Wildlings Didn't Jon start forging alliances/marriages between Wildlings and Northerners? With offers of land? I have to reread the books but I was hoping to do that before an imminent TWOW release... Yes but that’s as of aDwD, i was replying to kingeomer’s post about Ned and Benjen. So far it is only one group of Wildlings, the Thenns, who are actually the totally opposite of their show counterpart because they are the most organised and closest to following the aristocrat model. And i think its more Stannis and Selyse pushing these matches. Hence “Val the Wildling Princess.” i think most other Wildlings make it pretty clear they’ve no interest in kneeling or changing their ways to abide by Southern laws |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 12:38:47 GMT
Didn't Jon start forging alliances/marriages between Wildlings and Northerners? With offers of land? I have to reread the books but I was hoping to do that before an imminent TWOW release... Yes but that’s as of aDwD, i was replying to kingeomer’s post about Ned and Benjen. So far it is only one group of Wildlings, the Thenns, who are actually the totally opposite of their show counterpart because they are the most organised and closest to following the aristocrat model. And i think its more Stannis and Selyse pushing these matches. Hence “Val the Wildling Princess.” i think most other Wildlings make it pretty clear they’ve no interest in kneeling or changing their ways to abide by Southern laws The original plan was to organize and take lands from the Southerners, though. I suppose we can only speculate what will happen after Jon and Stannis sort of eased the tensions between Free Folk and Northerners, but Tormund going back home just feels like nobody learned anything and there was no progression in the story. Surely in Winter their chances of survival would be better south if the walk. They couldn't negotiate some type of arrangement that would benefit everyone? No because that would take too much time for D&D's six episode season, and Tormund is the only Wildling character left on the show anyway. Just give him the Poochy treatment. |
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