8x04 Review Thread (Spoilers)

Technically he shouldn't even have a surname because he was never acknowledged by Robert, but you're right, Waters is the surname for Crownlands bastards and since he's from KL he should be Waters.

Between this and the Starbuck cup it feels like they made the whole episode in a rush. I'm having flashbacks to the episodes from season 7 in which everything was plot and the characters behaved like idiots because the plot demanded it. I fear D&D have done the same this time, they thought first of shocking, downer endings and then worked backwards to get the characters there, instead of thinking about decent endings that fit the character's story and arc.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I want GRRM to at least release TWOW.

They managed to have a scene where Ghost is whining that Jon is leaving.  They couldn't have changed that scene to Jon giving his direwolf a proper goodbye. Ugh.  At least Tormund will take good care of Ghost.   I cannot even believe that house that has a DIREWOLF for a sigil wouldn't be a good place for a DIREWOLF.

I had a lot of issues with this episode. 

The "new" Prince of Dorne has pledged his loyalty.  Um, who is the new Prince of Dorne? Show!Doran only had Trystane as an heir.  Didn't Oberyn only have daughters?  Aren't they all dead, now?

Why kidnap Missandei?  Wouldn't it have been better to get Tyrion?

Jaime: ditches Cersei when she admits she is not sending an army North to help with the battle of the undead.  Bronn comes North and basically admits he's been sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion by Cersei.  Jaime knows Dany and friends are going South-stays in WF.  Then Jaime finds out Dany's been attacked, a dragon is dead and Missandei is taken prisoner and then he tells Brienne, I have never been a good man and I did all these awful things to get back to Cersei and I'm doing that now.  Me watching that: Bitch, WTF? I know Jaime has unfinished business with Cersei.  I know Jaime was going to wind up back in KL but why not have him say: look either Cersei or Dany (OR A COMBO OF BOTH) are likely to burn the smallfolk alive.  I might be able to stop Cersei, which in turn might stop Dany.  I might succeed, I might fail but I have to try.    That would have made more sense.

Euron able to shoot one dragon out of the sky but not Dany and her dragon, um, okay.

Sansa: If I didn't have those experiences with Ramsey and Littlefinger, I'd still be a little bird. WHAT?

Poor Gendry, rejected by Arya.  At least they were consistent with that one.  Gendry never thought he'd be good enough for Arya unless he was a Lord and Arya has been steadfast that she will never be a lady.  Poor Gendry.

Missandei's death scene was tough to watch but I loved her saying Dracarys before she died.

The scene with Brienne begging Jaime not to go was so well done by Gwendoline Christine.

Sansa putting the Stark sigil on Theon was a great touch.

MVP's this episode: Gwendoline Christie, Nathalie Emmanuel and surprise, surprise Emilia Clarke.  Normally not a fan of her acting but she did a great job telling Jon not to reveal his true parentage to anyone else and in the scene where she is watching Missandei be murdered. 

Much of how I feel about the episode has already been said so I’ll just state some random thoughts.

So, there are two people in about two hundred years who have managed to kill a dragon. One is a near-unkillable leader of a near-unstoppable army of an endless number of dead men, and the other is a raunchy pirate. At this point I no longer want Euron to die because I hate him in the way someone would hate Joffrey or Ramsay, but because I’m so tired of his character. In fact just calling him a character seems too generous. He’s an annoyance who is used whenever the plot requires the good guys to suffer a defeat, and I’m pretty sure his screentime in these last two seasons has been on par with Cersei’s - which is a travesty. When he inevitably dies I won’t even feel enthusiastic, just relieved.


kingeomer , the Jaime thing was definitely quite confusing but I think I can see the logic in his decision. He was initially going to stay in Winterfell with Brienne while Dany dealt with Cersei, but hearing that one of the dragons has died made him doubtful that she could succeed. So, he then comes to the conclusion that the only way Cersei can be defeated is if he does it himself, since there’s probably still a chance he could get close to her. He wanted to live happily with Brienne, but can’t, because his fate is tied to Cersei’s. Specifically, I think his talk about "I’m such a BAD guy - you don’t want me cuz I’m too BAD for you” comes after his realisation that he and Cersei have both done horrible things and his story should end with hers.



In spite of the episode’s flaws (and it has many), I gave it a 7 in the rate thread, and that is in large part because I think the acting is really good. Emilia especially was excellent and this could be one of her best episodes. Even if I strongly dislike that this is the direction that they’re going to take her character, I think she sells it well - her last scene in particular.

loooots of people have killed dragons to be fair. like a lot.

I don’t know how I feel about Jaime going back for Cersei. They didn’t explain his reasoning enough. I guess he thinks he’s stuck with her for life, but idk.

omg, I love this  

i have been known to cackle on occasion

expanded thoughts cause i have more shit to say and i know you all care about my opinions soooo much (sarc):

but i'm still digesting this. in a way, this episode was exactly what this whole franchise is about- giving viewers what they want, and then making them feel like shit about it.

As for the Daenerys mutiny, I'm coming to terms with it. It's sad and dark, but I guess that's the foundation of this story. If those shots from the trailer for 805 (in the map room and sitting on the dragonstone throne) are any indication, she continues to unfurl. at this point, i don't blame her for having a mental breakdown. think of all the shit she's been through. she's committed to destroying the tyrannical cersei at any cost. but it's chipping away at her. it's sad to see because we know her so well, but it's not unheard of in the context of this world.

compound this emotional distress with the fact that her few surviving allies and advisors are actively plotting against her. sansa and jon want varys on the throne, tyrion is still holding out hope for her, but i'm guessing he gives up on her too.

varys is doing what varys does, serve the people above all else. so i can't be too mad at him. daenerys is acting questionable as of late. but sansa...same with daenerys, i hate to see it, but i can't pretend it isn't valid. we were all so hyped "omg sansa finally knows how to play the game!!!" well...we got what we asked for. she's playing the game, alright. only she's playing against another character we love, so it feels wrong.

You're definitely not a pussy, I found this episode extremely hard to watch too for exactly the same reasons.

And I'm not even the biggest Dany fan (she used to be one of my favourites back in the day, but I've kind of fallen out of love with her over the years, ngl), and I still felt so much sympathy for her in this episode. She was done fucking dirty. 

Don't get me wrong, after what happened with Rhaegal and Missandei, I want her to burn the fucking city to the ground ... but I'm terrified to think what this might end up costing her, and of the depressing ending these events seem to be leading to.

Maybe I'm naive, but in my heart, I was really hoping that we'd get an optimistic ending to the show.