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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 19:03:03 GMT
Did you guys see where David Nutter was asked about Tyrion mentioning Cersei's pregnancy in front of Euron. His response was that Euron wasn't paying attention. Um... What? I don't even blame him, I think D&D are sending out directors and DOP to kind of absorb some of the blowback from the controversial decisions of this season. Why would the director be responsible for Euron being dumb in that moment, it's a writing issue. But Nutter is trying his best not to throw his bosses under the boss but it makes him look like he thinks viewers are stupid.  |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 19:32:58 GMT
I've been critical of Emilia in past seasons but I do think she's killing it this season.
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Post by Basil on May 12, 2019 19:37:59 GMT
I've been critical of Emilia in past seasons but I do think she's killing it this season. I agree. Emilia has been amazing this season. It's kind of ironic ... even though this is shaping up to be the season where she "turns bad" or whatever, I'm one hundred percent on #TeamDany right now, manly because Emilia makes me have so much sympathy with Dany. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 12, 2019 19:49:17 GMT
Did you guys see where David Nutter was asked about Tyrion mentioning Cersei's pregnancy in front of Euron. His response was that Euron wasn't paying attention. Um... What? I don't even blame him, I think D&D are sending out directors and DOP to kind of absorb some of the blowback from the controversial decisions of this season. Why would the director be responsible for Euron being dumb in that moment, it's a writing issue. But Nutter is trying his best not to throw his bosses under the boss but it makes him look like he thinks viewers are stupid. Yeah that's a dumb comment from Nutter but it's a pretty easy "plot hole" (as I've seen it described elsewhere) to fix up. There's presumably a passage of time and there could maybe have been some kind of official announcement of the pregnancy, or maybe Euron thought that Qyburn just told Tyrion then and there. Reading more into this seems silly, but Nutter's excuse is also pretty stupid.
But maybe easy on that conspiracy stuff Davey  Sometimes people just say daft things; not everything has to be some crazy plot. |
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Post by Zadeth on May 12, 2019 19:56:12 GMT
I have like .1% hope that the last few episodes are all a Bran dream and we're actually going to get a real ending and conclusion. Like in that one Twilight movie where they had a fake out that everyone died or whatever and it was all a dream.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 19:56:49 GMT
Don't deprive me of my paranoia FoD. |
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Post by Basil on May 12, 2019 20:10:25 GMT
The final scene of the show is Ned waking up soaked in sweat, Catelyn sleeping beside him. And he's like, "Cat, wake up, I had a horrible, horrible dream.", and she's like, "It was just a dream, Ned. Go back to sleep!" But then Maester Luwin enters the room with a letter from Lysa Arryn in his hand, and Ned looks into the camera like this:  The End. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 20:15:47 GMT
Did you guys see where David Nutter was asked about Tyrion mentioning Cersei's pregnancy in front of Euron. His response was that Euron wasn't paying attention. Um... What? I don't even blame him, I think D&D are sending out directors and DOP to kind of absorb some of the blowback from the controversial decisions of this season. Why would the director be responsible for Euron being dumb in that moment, it's a writing issue. But Nutter is trying his best not to throw his bosses under the boss but it makes him look like he thinks viewers are stupid. Yeah that's a dumb comment from Nutter but it's a pretty easy "plot hole" (as I've seen it described elsewhere) to fix up. There's presumably a passage of time and there could maybe have been some kind of official announcement of the pregnancy, or maybe Euron thought that Qyburn just told Tyrion then and there. Reading more into this seems silly, but Nutter's excuse is also pretty stupid. That's fine if they actually address it but I'm assuming they won't. I think it just serves as another example of an attention to detail that the fans have but the showrunners don't. It's funny because the quotes and memes about subverted expectations, Euron killing Cersei instead of her brothers would be a dramatic subversion of expectations that make sense in the context of the show. They set it up perfectly with this little detail, but when asked about it the director just says Euron wasn't paying attention. Of course it's possible that this is the way things play out and the director had to come up with something so as not to spoil it... We'll see. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 20:52:26 GMT
I've been critical of Emilia in past seasons but I do think she's killing it this season. I agree. Emilia has been amazing this season. It's kind of ironic ... even though this is shaping up to be the season where she "turns bad" or whatever, I'm one hundred percent on #TeamDany right now, manly because Emilia makes me have so much sympathy with Dany. Yes, I agree. All season 7+8 has done is make me hate Jon, Tyrion, and Varys. All of their characters have been inconsistent because they flip flop depending on what the plot needs at that moment. Vayrs was the one who said a woman could rule, now he's saying a king needs a cock. Like, what's going on? The thing about the books and the early seasons is that when challenging things happen, you understand why the characters did what they did. Now I don't know why Tyrion would think Cersei is reasonable. I don't understand why Cersei wouldn't kill Tyrion immediately. You can't explain character choices in the Inside the Episode. It has to make sense in the context of the story. Now after everything I want Dany to burn them all. |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 12, 2019 20:53:41 GMT
I think Varys was willing to take a chance of Daenerys cause he believed in her. Now he doesn’t anymore and thinks a man is the safest bet.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 20:54:54 GMT
I think Varys was willing to take a chance of Daenerys cause he believed in her. Now he doesn’t anymore and thinks a man is the safest bet. Okay, but what did Dany do wrong? She's taking losses because she's following Tyrion and Varys' counsel... |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 12, 2019 21:04:36 GMT
I think Varys was willing to take a chance of Daenerys cause he believed in her. Now he doesn’t anymore and thinks a man is the safest bet. Okay, but what did Dany do wrong? She's taking losses because she's following Tyrion and Varys' counsel... Well I agree that Varys' suspicions aren't warranted, but I think that's because I know Dany better than he does. I think the Varys thing has been a slow burn. Varys saw The Mad King's lunatic shit first hand, so that's probably at the forefront of his suspicions when it comes to Dany. Then putting aside the fact that he was behind the attempt on her life in season one, his relationship with her has been a little tense. Their convo on Dragonstone about him caring more about the people than her, which ended in her threatening to have him executed. Then he did not approve of the way she handled the Tarlys. Then he doesn't approve of her plans to attack King's Landing. Then he learns that Jon is the rightful heir and doesn't approve of his romance with Dany. So I see it as like a snowball effect. But I def don't think she's nearly out of control enough to warrant betrayal by her top advisors. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 12, 2019 21:09:20 GMT
Yeah that's a dumb comment from Nutter but it's a pretty easy "plot hole" (as I've seen it described elsewhere) to fix up. There's presumably a passage of time and there could maybe have been some kind of official announcement of the pregnancy, or maybe Euron thought that Qyburn just told Tyrion then and there. Reading more into this seems silly, but Nutter's excuse is also pretty stupid. That's fine if they actually address it but I'm assuming they won't. I think it just serves as another example of an attention to detail that the fans have but the showrunners don't. It's funny because the quotes and memes about subverted expectations, Euron killing Cersei instead of her brothers would be a dramatic subversion of expectations that make sense in the context of the show. They set it up perfectly with this little detail, but when asked about it the director just says Euron wasn't paying attention. Of course it's possible that this is the way things play out and the director had to come up with something so as not to spoil it... We'll see. Oh of course they won't address it
I've just seen a lot of theories about how Tyrion revealing that info is gonna what turns Euron against Cersei, and it reminds me a lot of all the theories surrounding Arya's stabbing in 607. But I think in this case there's actually a feasible off-screen explanation, which is (marginally) better than no explanation at all.
Although it's absolutely possible he's trying to deflect and Euron will betray Cersei over this, but imo that's kinda worse than it being a mistake since there's no reaction from Euron in this episode.
As for your little point about attention to detail ... I dunno if it really matters that much. Well it does matter obviously but I don't think reading into it does much good. There are millions of fans versus a relatively small number of people involved in the show. Of course we can collectively pay more attention than them. As I said, sometimes people just make daft mistakes, but those small things don't necessarily mean that the creators have a dislike for the material. If you'll indulge me talking about Star Wars a second, I think it was a pretty big error at the end of The Force Awakens to have Leia and Chewbacca ignore each other after Han's death, but I certainly don't think JJ Abrams or Carrie Fisher hate Chewie or anything, it just slipped their mind. I'd certainly never say that JJ hates Star Wars after TFA considering how much that movie borrows from the original. He clearly loves them.
Okay reading that ^ back it doesn't really have much to do with your point, but I've seen a fair bit about how D&D don't care about the show or the material anymore, and while they obviously don't want to take their time in ending the show, I just can't agree with the point that they no longer care. They just clearly have their biases and priorities, but that's nothing new.
The Ghost thing's pretty bad though.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 12, 2019 21:41:27 GMT
Okay, but what did Dany do wrong? She's taking losses because she's following Tyrion and Varys' counsel... Well I agree that Varys' suspicions aren't warranted, but I think that's because I know Dany better than he does. I think the Varys thing has been a slow burn. Varys saw The Mad King's lunatic shit first hand, so that's probably at the forefront of his suspicions when it comes to Dany. Then putting aside the fact that he was behind the attempt on her life in season one, his relationship with her has been a little tense. Their convo on Dragonstone about him caring more about the people than her, which ended in her threatening to have him executed. Then he did not approve of the way she handled the Tarlys. Then he doesn't approve of her plans to attack King's Landing. Then he learns that Jon is the rightful heir and doesn't approve of his romance with Dany. So I see it as like a snowball effect. But I def don't think she's nearly out of control enough to warrant betrayal by her top advisors. Varys was the one that told Aerys not to trust Tywin, though. If Varys ultimately cared about the people, he would have been trying to stop the war at every step of the way. Scheming against Littlefinger and the Lannisters only got people killed. So there must be someone specific Varys believes would be a good ruler: that is Aegon Dany. The show made a little plot hole by eliminating FAegon so Dany became the person Vary believed could rule the Kingdoms with true harmony and justice. Only now that's not the case anymore and more innocent people will die. So with every passing episode the thought of Varys caring about the people of the realm seems more and more like bullshit. |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 12, 2019 21:53:01 GMT
Well I agree that Varys' suspicions aren't warranted, but I think that's because I know Dany better than he does. I think the Varys thing has been a slow burn. Varys saw The Mad King's lunatic shit first hand, so that's probably at the forefront of his suspicions when it comes to Dany. Then putting aside the fact that he was behind the attempt on her life in season one, his relationship with her has been a little tense. Their convo on Dragonstone about him caring more about the people than her, which ended in her threatening to have him executed. Then he did not approve of the way she handled the Tarlys. Then he doesn't approve of her plans to attack King's Landing. Then he learns that Jon is the rightful heir and doesn't approve of his romance with Dany. So I see it as like a snowball effect. But I def don't think she's nearly out of control enough to warrant betrayal by her top advisors. Varys was the one that told Aerys not to trust Tywin, though. If Varys ultimately cared about the people, he would have been trying to stop the war at every step of the way. Scheming against Littlefinger and the Lannisters only got people killed. So there must be someone specific Varys believes would be a good ruler: that is Aegon Dany. The show made a little plot hole by eliminating FAegon so Dany became the person Vary believed could rule the Kingdoms with true harmony and justice. Only now that's not the case anymore and more innocent people will die. So with every passing episode the thought of Varys caring about the people of the realm seems more and more like bullshit. I think he’s just loyal to no one. That’s a very broad explanation but I feel like that’s all the justification the show needs/cares to give |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 18, 2019 8:11:45 GMT
Ygritte: "They're not your lands, we've been here the whole time. You lot came along and just put up a big wall and said it was yours."
Tormund's: "I'm taking my people home."
Where? The frozen wasteland with no textiles/agriculture? All you wanted was land and safety. Jon gave you that. What are you going back North?
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 18, 2019 8:18:31 GMT
Ygritte: "They're not your lands, we've been here the whole time. You lot came along and just put up a big wall and said it was yours." Tormund's: "I'm taking my people home." Where? The frozen wasteland with no textiles/agriculture? All you wanted was land and safety. Jon gave you that. What are you going back North? Because they've learned how to live there over hundreds of years. The Wildling's problem (at least this "generation" anyway) wasn't the inhospitality of the land north of the Wall, it was the White Walkers. That threat no longer exists, so they can go back home now. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 18, 2019 8:25:37 GMT
Ygritte: "They're not your lands, we've been here the whole time. You lot came along and just put up a big wall and said it was yours." Tormund's: "I'm taking my people home." Where? The frozen wasteland with no textiles/agriculture? All you wanted was land and safety. Jon gave you that. What are you going back North? Because they've learned how to live there over hundreds of years. The Wildling's problem (at least this "generation" anyway) wasn't the inhospitality of the land north of the Wall, it was the White Walkers. That threat no longer exists, so they can go back home now. But they went South for raiding on the regular. They were like the Iron Islanders of the North, taking what they couldn't grow/make on their own. The only reason they had to live like that was because of the wall and tensions with the "North". After given an opportunity to take lands and build new villages they're going to go back to the most uninhabitable region of Westeros? The only way to survive would be hunting, did the dead even leave any life up there? It just seems like a way to get Tormund's and the Wildlings out of the story without much thought to the fact that their lives would be much better if they stayed near Winterfell, especially with Winter here. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 18, 2019 8:29:15 GMT
Ygritte: "They're not your lands, we've been here the whole time. You lot came along and just put up a big wall and said it was yours." Tormund's: "I'm taking my people home." Where? The frozen wasteland with no textiles/agriculture? All you wanted was land and safety. Jon gave you that. What are you going back North? I mean just look at those two quotes and tell me which feels like a three dimensional character and which feels forced by the plot to exit stage right. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 18, 2019 9:17:52 GMT
Maybe Tormund just wants to go home though? You can think that's weak motivation but it's been established more than once that he doesn't like "the south". Characters don't have to be totally rational all of the time; he's just nostalgic for home.
I mean out of all the plot developments in these last two episodes, Tormund returning home seems like one of the more reasonable to me.
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Sometimes people just say daft things; not everything has to be some crazy plot.
