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Post by boojam on Sept 6, 2017 13:00:32 GMT
Worth a watch, even if you don't necessarily agree with everything This is old territory , even when the show had the books as source material. Some of the criticism about character evolution could be aimed at GRRM as much as D&D. I , now, look on the 'teleportation problem', as Christoper Nolan 'time slicing' as a narrative ploy, no longer bothers me. By the by it has been used other film directors in the past also. Wonder what this guy thinks of Alt Shift X on You Tube? He has covered the same territory and made some clever observations. |
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Post by TheMadQueen on Sept 6, 2017 13:09:10 GMT
boojam I used to like AlfShitX but he's getting very Rant&Rave-y, his 706 video was like 15 minutes of complaining. And I don't have time for that shit lol.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Sept 6, 2017 13:15:47 GMT
I stopped watching AltShiftX's show-stuff a short while before S7, because I realised he must have been following some filming/leaks stuff to be able to predict some things (also he promoted some of that "Is Jaqen wearing Arya's face???" shite so I started to take him less seriously after that point). He was quite complain-y last season too.
As for the guy in the video, he does say his intent isn't to bash the show (unlike others). In fact at the beginning of the season he made a video in which he praised the show as a whole. It's mainly a complaint about plot armour and pacing in the latter episodes, which I also had problems with.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Sept 6, 2017 13:26:17 GMT
^^^oh yeah sand FoD is right, he read the leaks and passed them off as his predictions lol
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Post by boojam on Sept 6, 2017 14:14:54 GMT
boojam I used to like AlfShitX but he's getting very Rant&Rave-y, his 706 video was like 15 minutes of complaining. And I don't have time for that shit lol. It seems odd now , this far along, that D&D , who have no more source material , printed!, seem to have the same old Blivit problem. Too much narrative on their teleplay pages for the visual narrative slot. They seem impatient and are no longer careful. Would love to see Cogman's remarks at the script meetings , he always seemed the 'brain' aware of continuity. I think D&D when made aware of it apologize to Bryan and bulldoze right ahead. God only knows. What if George has 5000 pages of prose for Winds of Winter?! How would one like to adapt that?! Still! On Sunday night I would rather sit and watch GoT rather than about 90% of the rest of TV! |
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Post by kingeomer on Sept 7, 2017 12:15:23 GMT
boojam I used to like AlfShitX but he's getting very Rant&Rave-y, his 706 video was like 15 minutes of complaining. And I don't have time for that shit lol. It seems odd now , this far along, that D&D , who have no more source material , printed!, seem to have the same old Blivit problem. Too much narrative on their teleplay pages for the visual narrative slot. They seem impatient and are no longer careful. Would love to see Cogman's remarks at the script meetings , he always seemed the 'brain' aware of continuity. I think D&D when made aware of it apologize to Bryan and bulldoze right ahead. God only knows. What if George has 5000 pages of prose for Winds of Winter?! How would one like to adapt that?! Still! On Sunday night I would rather sit and watch GoT rather than about 90% of the rest of TV! Unfortunately we'll never know what Cogman fought to have in there and was turned down, he probably wouldn't admit to it and left twitter any way. He did say before leaving twitter that a scene with Jon and Ghost was cut from the first or second episode of the season and he fought to keep it in and was turned down. |
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Post by boojam on Sept 8, 2017 15:03:34 GMT
It seems odd now , this far along, that D&D , who have no more source material , printed!, seem to have the same old Blivit problem. Too much narrative on their teleplay pages for the visual narrative slot. They seem impatient and are no longer careful. Would love to see Cogman's remarks at the script meetings , he always seemed the 'brain' aware of continuity. I think D&D when made aware of it apologize to Bryan and bulldoze right ahead. God only knows. What if George has 5000 pages of prose for Winds of Winter?! How would one like to adapt that?! Still! On Sunday night I would rather sit and watch GoT rather than about 90% of the rest of TV! Unfortunately we'll never know what Cogman fought to have in there and was turned down, he probably wouldn't admit to it and left twitter any way. He did say before leaving twitter that a scene with Jon and Ghost was cut from the first or second episode of the season and he fought to keep it in and was turned down. I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.png |
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Post by lordcarson on Sept 8, 2017 15:32:24 GMT
Unfortunately we'll never know what Cogman fought to have in there and was turned down, he probably wouldn't admit to it and left twitter any way. He did say before leaving twitter that a scene with Jon and Ghost was cut from the first or second episode of the season and he fought to keep it in and was turned down. I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.pngYou can't just make things 90 minutes long. That's a lot of fuckin work dude. Her season 3 scenes became her season 4 scene with the wedding. He's in Outlander. |
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Post by boojam on Sept 8, 2017 17:04:57 GMT
I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.pngYou can't just make things 90 minutes long. That's a lot of fuckin work dude. Her season 3 scenes became her season 4 scene with the wedding. He's in Outlander. Westworld, on HBO, last episode was 90 min. Anyway they have money now to do it. Not sure they shot Outlander in Northern Ireland. |
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Sept 8, 2017 19:55:19 GMT
Unfortunately we'll never know what Cogman fought to have in there and was turned down, he probably wouldn't admit to it and left twitter any way. He did say before leaving twitter that a scene with Jon and Ghost was cut from the first or second episode of the season and he fought to keep it in and was turned down. I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.pngIt really depends how much content they have to fill it, how much they need/want to show to tell their portrayal, and how much time/budget they're given. Granted, HBO seem to love GoT, but the budget is increasing with each season. I have a feeling the reason we see so little of the Direwolves and why most of them have been killed off is because it's so expensive/time consuming to film for them. I love Ghost, and I wish we actually got to see some of him, at this point it's been over a series since we've saw him, but I'd honestly rather see Dragons and White Walkers if I'm being forced to make a choice. I know people were upset by them not showing the supposed Bran/Sansa scene, but I preferred it this way. Showing a scene like that, if it was Bran revealing Littlefinger's crimes to Sansa would just ruin the pace and suspense of the scene with them all in the Great Hall. Still, it would have been nice for them to have a little bit of dialogue between Sansa and Arya later, saying something about Bran's involvement. But I'm not gonna bitch too much, it was a satisfying episode, and not just because the wall got screwed. But the more you go into it, the Night King's plan entirely falls apart if he doesn't get a dragon right? I mean, without Viserion he can't break the wall, so he MUST have known, or planned that trap, right? |
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Post by boojam on Sept 8, 2017 20:27:14 GMT
I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.pngIt really depends how much content they have to fill it, how much they need/want to show to tell their portrayal, and how much time/budget they're given. Granted, HBO seem to love GoT, but the budget is increasing with each season. I have a feeling the reason we see so little of the Direwolves and why most of them have been killed off is because it's so expensive/time consuming to film for them. I love Ghost, and I wish we actually got to see some of him, at this point it's been over a series since we've saw him, but I'd honestly rather see Dragons and White Walkers if I'm being forced to make a choice. The odd thing is that they shot a Ghost scene and didn't use it. I am sure it was short. At this late date HBO would go to Time-Warner as get a blank check for GoT , money is not an issue, it does mean more effort and I can see that . |
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Sept 8, 2017 22:56:59 GMT
I may be mis-remembering* , thought Cogman said they DID shoot the Ghost scene but it was cut. I find it odd that with only 7 episodes they didn't make them all 70 min. long , heck they could have made them all 90 min. long. I don't recall if all cut scenes have made it to the DVD editions. For instance Kate Dickey shot scenes for season S3 (or was it S2)which were not used. Those ever show up anywhere? Which reminds me Tobias Menzies was seen in Belfast during S7 shooting, any one verify that he there for some other show? Or stuff he shot was not used? I did not mis-remember Cogman stated it: cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2017/08/13/15b634cc-a686-46e8-ba4a-3058f0371d4b/resize/815x288/2ca23515ae3d6f979937c2f59449507b/bryan-cogman-ghost.pngIt really depends how much content they have to fill it, how much they need/want to show to tell their portrayal, and how much time/budget they're given. Granted, HBO seem to love GoT, but the budget is increasing with each season. I have a feeling the reason we see so little of the Direwolves and why most of them have been killed off is because it's so expensive/time consuming to film for them. I love Ghost, and I wish we actually got to see some of him, at this point it's been over a series since we've saw him, but I'd honestly rather see Dragons and White Walkers if I'm being forced to make a choice. I know people were upset by them not showing the supposed Bran/Sansa scene, but I preferred it this way. Showing a scene like that, if it was Bran revealing Littlefinger's crimes to Sansa would just ruin the pace and suspense of the scene with them all in the Great Hall. Still, it would have been nice for them to have a little bit of dialogue between Sansa and Arya later, saying something about Bran's involvement. But I'm not gonna bitch too much, it was a satisfying episode, and not just because the wall got screwed. But the more you go into it, the Night King's plan entirely falls apart if he doesn't get a dragon right? I mean, without Viserion he can't break the wall, so he MUST have known, or planned that trap, right? The Bran scene was apparently more vague than that, apparently it only showed that Sansa and Bran had some kind of talk. That would have been much preferable. Things happen off-screen all of the time, that's fine, but I don't think it's good writing to say xyz happened off-screen purely so that there is a shock!(TM) for the audience |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Sept 8, 2017 23:06:43 GMT
It really depends how much content they have to fill it, how much they need/want to show to tell their portrayal, and how much time/budget they're given. Granted, HBO seem to love GoT, but the budget is increasing with each season. I have a feeling the reason we see so little of the Direwolves and why most of them have been killed off is because it's so expensive/time consuming to film for them. I love Ghost, and I wish we actually got to see some of him, at this point it's been over a series since we've saw him, but I'd honestly rather see Dragons and White Walkers if I'm being forced to make a choice. I know people were upset by them not showing the supposed Bran/Sansa scene, but I preferred it this way. Showing a scene like that, if it was Bran revealing Littlefinger's crimes to Sansa would just ruin the pace and suspense of the scene with them all in the Great Hall. Still, it would have been nice for them to have a little bit of dialogue between Sansa and Arya later, saying something about Bran's involvement. But I'm not gonna bitch too much, it was a satisfying episode, and not just because the wall got screwed. But the more you go into it, the Night King's plan entirely falls apart if he doesn't get a dragon right? I mean, without Viserion he can't break the wall, so he MUST have known, or planned that trap, right? The Bran scene was apparently more vague than that, apparently it only showed that Sansa and Bran had some kind of talk. That would have been much preferable. Things happen off-screen all of the time, that's fine, but I don't think it's good writing to say xyz happened off-screen purely so that there is a shock!(TM) for the audience Yeah the interview with Isaac implied it was only a few seconds long; just Sansa walking into Bran's room and asking for help. I think it probably would have followed the scene of Sansa walking on the walls alone. Why something so short yet so important was cut is a mystery to me. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Sept 8, 2017 23:12:35 GMT
The fact that multiple people predicted Littlefinger's death and nothing else this season shows you how fucking obvious it was.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Sept 8, 2017 23:40:14 GMT
It really depends how much content they have to fill it, how much they need/want to show to tell their portrayal, and how much time/budget they're given. Granted, HBO seem to love GoT, but the budget is increasing with each season. I have a feeling the reason we see so little of the Direwolves and why most of them have been killed off is because it's so expensive/time consuming to film for them. I love Ghost, and I wish we actually got to see some of him, at this point it's been over a series since we've saw him, but I'd honestly rather see Dragons and White Walkers if I'm being forced to make a choice. I know people were upset by them not showing the supposed Bran/Sansa scene, but I preferred it this way. Showing a scene like that, if it was Bran revealing Littlefinger's crimes to Sansa would just ruin the pace and suspense of the scene with them all in the Great Hall. Still, it would have been nice for them to have a little bit of dialogue between Sansa and Arya later, saying something about Bran's involvement. But I'm not gonna bitch too much, it was a satisfying episode, and not just because the wall got screwed. But the more you go into it, the Night King's plan entirely falls apart if he doesn't get a dragon right? I mean, without Viserion he can't break the wall, so he MUST have known, or planned that trap, right? The Bran scene was apparently more vague than that, apparently it only showed that Sansa and Bran had some kind of talk. That would have been much preferable. Things happen off-screen all of the time, that's fine, but I don't think it's good writing to say xyz happened off-screen purely so that there is a shock!(TM) for the audience I'm not trying to defend it or say that it really improved it, but I can understand why they would remove it. Yes, if you ever read my season 5 rants (which was a series of "oh yeah, btw this happened while you guys weren't watching") I agree that it's just a lazy way to do things, but I just feel like it was something that wasn't necessarily of the utmost importance. I mean yeah, the Littlefinger death was obviously coming, considering the only other option was Sansa and Arya ripping house stark apart, and that wasn't gonna happen. But I feel like having that Bran scene would somewhat undermine it. Unless of course the Bran scene was just them talking about family or something. I honestly have no idea what it was about so this is merely speculation, but if it wasn't used, they felt it wasn't needed for a reason I guess. |
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Post by Singer of Death on Sept 9, 2017 0:14:26 GMT
I know that putting in Bran's scene would have explain clearly about how Sansa and Arya recouncil to take down LF together, but more so i'm glad it wasn't in the episode. The scene would destroy the suspense that can keep their viewer's interest in the storyline. Bran revealing it to Sansa and Arya would have been too blatant to the audience that we all know what's going to happen. Beside, there is already a hint that LF ruin his plan where LF told Sansa that Arya would kill her to become Lady of Winterfell. That alone the audience know LF made a fatal mistake and make Sansa now suspicious of him. And the final scene where Sansa put LF in the court and Bran is with them - that indicate Sansa and Arya consulted with Bran to help them and conspire against LF to his doom.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Sept 9, 2017 0:45:07 GMT
The thing about the Winterfell storyline is they had to dumb down three main characters and relegate another(Bran) to an emotionless plot device. Aside from Gillen's performance the entire thing was a disaster. And I defended Littlefinger/Sansa in season 5. I've defended so much shit over the past seven years but this was just terribly executed.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Sept 9, 2017 1:11:51 GMT
Okay I added up the runtimes and Season 7 was 442 minutes or 7.3 hours. Season 6 was a total of 445 minutes so the difference between content in season 7 versus previous seasons is negligible. Even though Season 7 had three fewer episodes, it was only three minutes shorter than the previous season. This lends to my theory that the biggest reason for ordering shorter seasons was so they could pay the main actors less. HBO saved $9 million dollars by doing three fewer episodes, that's $9million strictly in actor salaries.
So the content is the same but HBO is saving a lot of money by reducing the number of episodes. Unfortunately this caused pacing issues where people felt like some developments were rushed, specifically in episode six. But I think they could easily do feature length runtimes for all episodes next year if they wanted to.
If HBO wants to match the content from previous seasons(445 minutes), season 8 would average 75 mintues per episode.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Sept 9, 2017 10:10:12 GMT
I know that putting in Bran's scene would have explain clearly about how Sansa and Arya recouncil to take down LF together, but more so i'm glad it wasn't in the episode. 1) The scene would destroy the suspense that can keep their viewer's interest in the storyline. Bran revealing it to Sansa and Arya would have been too blatant to the audience that we all know what's going to happen. Beside, 2)there is already a hint that LF ruin his plan where LF told Sansa that Arya would kill her to become Lady of Winterfell. That alone the audience know LF made a fatal mistake and make Sansa now suspicious of him. And the final scene where Sansa put LF in the court and Bran is with them - 3) that indicate Sansa and Arya consulted with Bran to help them and conspire against LF to his doom.1) Again, no it wouldn't. The scene wasn't going to have Bran spell everything out, it was simply indicating all was not as it seemed, and that a conversation was going on. You can't base entire plot points around stuff the audience doesn't see or have any idea is happening, that's just lazy writing for a cheap shock!(TM) 2) How is this a hint LF ruined his plan? Nothing in that scene suggests Sansa stops trusting him after he suggests it to her, and while I agree Arya shouldn't want to be Lady of Winterfell, the show doesn't seem to go that way as her and Sansa en discuss it briefly on the battlements, suggesting she did entertain that notion. So I don't see how that is a hint at all. 3) Bran being present indicates nothing. It's a trial, apparently of his sister no less. He may be weird but hey have to at least keep up appearances. Of course he would be present. |
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Sept 9, 2017 13:13:37 GMT
The thing about the Winterfell storyline is they had to dumb down three main characters and relegate another(Bran) to an emotionless plot device. Aside from Gillen's performance the entire thing was a disaster. And I defended Littlefinger/Sansa in season 5. I've defended so much shit over the past seven years but this was just terribly executed. I honestly think it's too little too late with Bran's magical powers. The show has kind of shook off a lot of the more magical elements, like Euron's horn, and his captured sorcerer's, a lot of the greenseer stuff (which is not really explained on the show at all), the wall's seals, Coldhands (who they just killed off instantly, which is one of my biggest gripes this series), Danaerys' prophecy dreams, Marwyn or some other lesser moments. Some were surely cut for time constraints or lack of a need, but some (particularly the Euron stuff) just felt like it had been dumbed down for the show. It feels like they want to avoid those elements for a fear that going overly fantastical would ostracize part of their audience. But I can't help but feel the Westeros of the show feels very dead in comparison to the books. There are parts of the world that seem to have nothing going on, or parts of it we never hear about. The world building has really tanked in the past 3 series which is really disappointing, at least to me. Like, why are Dorne not up in arms about the death of all their leaders? Why aren't the Reach concerned that their generation old ruling house just got deposed? Why aren't the Riverlords rebelling now that the Freys are dead and the Lannisters weakened? What the hell happened to all the houses in the Stormlands? Where did all the thousands of sellswords in the north disappear to? Where did Sallador Saan go? Why are Dorne fine that the Mountain (who confessed to his crimes) is still alive? Why did the sorcerer people from Qarth just stop pursuing Dany? Why aren't the Citidel bothered there is no Grand Maester? There are so many dropped plot points, that it's kind of silly. There are so many unanswered questions that any paying close attention can see that will never be answered so I've just started ignoring them and that's fine, but it doesn't really excuse it. |
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