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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 19, 2017 23:38:09 GMT
I mostly agree with this. I would love Leia to use the Force, but I think it needs to be shown somewhere that she developed her abilities a little, maybe with Luke or something. And on the point of training and Rey and such, I don't find it surprising that Rey would know to try a mind trick since that's a major thing in the Jedi legends. Leia suddenly having the ability to pull herself through space isn't something she would think to try without having practiced it before. And I guess that basically sums up my big problem with the scene. I would just have liked a mention of it at some point. And if it comes out in a book later that she had been practicing, then I'll be able to look at this a little easier. Its been about a year since I read Bloodline, but I swear there was some kind of mention of Leia practicing the Force with Luke. The Leia book is much fresher in my mind (sidenote: probably responsible for me liking Holdo more than most) and although it's never said, she does use the Force while she's climbing on Felucia. Obviously there's a huge step up from that to surviving in space - it's probably more comparable to Luke bulls-eyeing womp rats - but that and the mention of some training with Luke was enough precedence for me to think that this was plausible. I think it's instinct more than anything. And besides, she'd probably only need a little pull towards the station and let the momentum take her from there, but that's probably getting a bit too sciency for this space fantasy.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 19, 2017 23:40:04 GMT
Training can teach you how to control the Force and use it efficiently, but I don't think this means that you won't be able to use it at all if you don't have any. Plus, pulling and pushing things with your mind is one of the most basic things you can do by using the Force.
Leia is a Skywalker. She is the daughter of arguably one of the most powerful Force wielders in the history of the Galaxy. The Force is basically magic, but it is also a living thing and it can provide aid and guidance to those who can hear it. That alone is all the explanation one needs, in my opinion.
Anyway, I'm lowkey depressed now. Not because of you guys, but the amount of hate and vitriol I've seen thrown at that scene in the last hour ... it's too much. Holy shit. To me, the emotional payoff of that scene was so strong, I could never bring myself to nitpick it apart. This is the reason I would like this scene and after thinking about it last night, its what I settled on. Like FOD said, the execution wasn't great and I still have my problems with it, but piecing it together does help it make a little more sense. Like she couldn't move the rocks at the end because she was only able to use the Force when her life literally depended on it.
Overall, Johnson did a great job with the Force between the connections and Luke's skills and one of my favorite parts, Han's dice fading on the ground when Luke faded. Leia dropped them because she could sense that Luke was not really there and the dice was both a comfort to her through remembering Han and knowing that Luke was physically away from any danger. If he was really there, she would never have let him face Ben.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 19, 2017 23:42:46 GMT
I mostly agree with this. I would love Leia to use the Force, but I think it needs to be shown somewhere that she developed her abilities a little, maybe with Luke or something. And on the point of training and Rey and such, I don't find it surprising that Rey would know to try a mind trick since that's a major thing in the Jedi legends. Leia suddenly having the ability to pull herself through space isn't something she would think to try without having practiced it before. And I guess that basically sums up my big problem with the scene. I would just have liked a mention of it at some point. And if it comes out in a book later that she had been practicing, then I'll be able to look at this a little easier. Its been about a year since I read Bloodline, but I swear there was some kind of mention of Leia practicing the Force with Luke. The Leia book is much fresher in my mind (sidenote: probably responsible for me liking Holdo more than most) and although it's never said, she does use the Force while she's climbing on Felucia. Obviously there's a huge step up from that to surviving in space - it's probably more comparable to Luke bulls-eyeing womp rats - but that and the mention of some training with Luke was enough precedence for me to think that this was plausible. I think it's instinct more than anything. And besides, she'd probably only need a little pull towards the station and let the momentum take her from there, but that's probably getting a bit too sciency for this space fantasy. There was no mention of training with Luke, but she did mention feeling like she could watch a battle unfold in front of her through the Force. Honestly, that might be why I had such a hard time with the scene. I love Leia using the Force like this: sensing others and seeing paths laid out before her. Maybe I never wanted her to physically use the Force. But my last post sums up why I kinda settled myself with it. Also fucking yes, I loved Holdo and nobody I was with understood why
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Post by day dreamer on Dec 20, 2017 0:43:51 GMT
I'd watch an entire movie of Rey and Kylo force skyping ngl.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Dec 20, 2017 1:16:57 GMT
I see everybody's still using spoiler tags.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Dec 20, 2017 1:44:49 GMT
I loved Holdo and Leila interacting as two old friends and comrades who have been through a lot together. I don’t need their history spelled out to me to see that they have been through a lot. Such a short scene but it said so much and was so good! I liked Finn and Rose. Thought the casino stuff was interesting but did not fit with the rest of the movie, apart from reiterating the theme of keeping the spark burning (the payoff at the end, where a child in a pretty hopeless situation still has hope because of the actions of the Resistance. He could one day grow up to be the next Luke Skywalker, or Poe Dameron, or whatever). I wish that stuff had been kept in the film but integrated in some better way - perhaps having the Resistance story from two angles, with Finn and Rose part of a group who already escaped, while Leia, Poe and Holdo have their escape plot as shown. Finn and Rose then have their casino thing without straining credulity and ruining pacing with the chase because they could already be there, or something. The addition of Rose as a character was well worth it though, she was awesome and I love her as a beacon of hope. And that she stopped Finn’s kamikaze mission...I genuinely feared for him in those tense seconds where he sped toward the canon. In fact the whole conclusion of the escape...I just kept thinking “Now is when they turn the tide and allies show up!” But things just kept going wrong, again and again, which genuinely surprised me. I can’t wait to see this again because goddamnit I want to see every scene in Snoke’s throne room again. That set was fucking gorgeous and had some of my favourite stuff in SW ever.
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Post by day dreamer on Dec 20, 2017 2:46:26 GMT
I came out of the theater sort of disliking Rose and Finn's story but it's really grown on me. I like the overall theme of failure and learning from it of the film. And when you think about it, how many times have seen seen a few plucky heroes go against their superiors on a mission and come out right? This feels like the first time that happened where they were wrong. Pretty much everything Finn, Rose, and Poe did resulted in a lot of people dying, and now they'll have to learn from it in the next film. That's bold.
And I can't wait for a clearer version of this gif to come out because my avatar needs it.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 20, 2017 9:53:29 GMT
By the way I hope Lando is one of those allies in the Outer Rim. Billy Dee's more than happy to come back!
Also: I bet those dice on the Falcon come into play in Solo. It's basically guarenteed.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 20, 2017 12:54:53 GMT
By the way I hope Lando is one of those allies in the Outer Rim. Billy Dee's more than happy to come back!
Also: I bet those dice on the Falcon come into play in Solo. It's basically guarenteed.
I’m shocked at the amount of people who had no idea what the dice were about. They’ve been the whole time, they even hit Chewie in the head once
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 20, 2017 13:28:50 GMT
By the way I hope Lando is one of those allies in the Outer Rim. Billy Dee's more than happy to come back!
Also: I bet those dice on the Falcon come into play in Solo. It's basically guarenteed.
I’m shocked at the amount of people who had no idea what the dice were about. They’ve been the whole time, they even hit Chewie in the head once I'd never noticed them in the other movies before! I was sure they were new, but it's nice to see such a small detail from the first movie be referenced in a significant way. I'm just saying that with the focus on them in this movie with Solo just around the corner means they'll probably be featured again. Speaking of references to the other movies, some reddit genius noticed this:
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Post by day dreamer on Dec 20, 2017 13:55:33 GMT
By the way I hope Lando is one of those allies in the Outer Rim. Billy Dee's more than happy to come back!
Also: I bet those dice on the Falcon come into play in Solo. It's basically guarenteed.
I’m shocked at the amount of people who had no idea what the dice were about. They’ve been the whole time, they even hit Chewie in the head once One of my favorite reviewers said they were probably just there to sell merch. No, dude. They've been there! :lol:
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Post by Basil on Dec 20, 2017 14:20:19 GMT
Legit depressed that everyone hates that Leia scene so much. I mean, it's one thing to dislike it for whatever reason, but it has become the butt of so many jokes, and that to me is so wrong and shitty. I think the last time I was so devastated about something fictional is when I discovered that the entire internet hates Catelyn with a passion.
When I watched the movie, that moment gave me life, I honestly did not expect the reaction to be so negative.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 20, 2017 15:42:59 GMT
ESB ANH TFA ROTJ TLJ Rogue One ROTS TPM shit
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 20, 2017 15:45:04 GMT
I’m shocked at the amount of people who had no idea what the dice were about. They’ve been the whole time, they even hit Chewie in the head once I'd never noticed them in the other movies before! I was sure they were new, but it's nice to see such a small detail from the first movie be referenced in a significant way. I'm just saying that with the focus on them in this movie with Solo just around the corner means they'll probably be featured again. Speaking of references to the other movies, some reddit genius noticed this: Yeah i noticed that while watching! I think Vader used it to track the Ghost back to Phoenix to bypass their stealth in season 2 also.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Dec 20, 2017 19:35:02 GMT
I came out of the theater sort of disliking Rose and Finn's story but it's really grown on me. I like the overall theme of failure and learning from it of the film. And when you think about it, how many times have seen seen a few plucky heroes go against their superiors on a mission and come out right? This feels like the first time that happened where they were wrong. Pretty much everything Finn, Rose, and Poe did resulted in a lot of people dying, and now they'll have to learn from it in the next film. That's bold.
I was a bit bored by the resistance/First Order stuff tbh, but I can't hate DJ. Honestly one of the best parts about the film. I couldn't help but feel it introduced a few too many characters and expected me to keep on following and care about all of them. I would have enjoyed a far more tighter narrative based around Finn and Poe. That said, it was okay... I just felt it could have been better.
I liked the film overall, but there were certain parts that just don't feel right as a Star Wars film to me. I really feel like I need to rewatch the film to form a real opinion. Though I can't help but feel like a lot of the hate directed at the film comes from the fact that it's not what we were expecting. Like I've said, it doesn't follow a traditional Star Wars narrative. If it was then Rey would be Luke's daughter, and Snoke would be a malicious all powerful Dark Lord yadayada...
Rian has really gone against a lot of the cliche Star Wars stuff and took a more gritty, dark look at the Star Wars galaxy. I think the biggest problem with the film is that it's not what people were expecting, and with something as beloved as Star Wars, everyone feels like they have a say in what happens.
I'm starting to lighten to some ideas. I'm still not a massive fan of Rey being nobody if it's true, but maybe because that was the exact same plot twist used in another film this year. I loved Luke in the film though. It reminds me a bit of Jolee Bindo in KOTOR, someone whose seen all of this before. And also what Yoda was meant to be in the Star Wars universe before the prequel inexplicably made him a hopping lightsaber twirling, poorly choreographed jedi master. Luke has been down the path of opposing and destroying the Dark Side before and if it worked that time, there wouldn't be a First Order. It makes sense that his story is about finding clarity, as opposed to fighting. In fact, that's the whole Jedi mantra. Besides, it was never going to be about Luke taking on the bad guys, any more than the Original Trilogy was going to be about Obi Wan taking down the Empire. I love the parallels the films draw between Luke and Obi Wan, the Jedi Exile living in seclusion, who needs to be found, who is the only hope and I love how they chose to play his story out.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Dec 20, 2017 19:53:49 GMT
i haven't seen the movie and i'm still reading all of this
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 20, 2017 23:58:55 GMT
i haven't seen the movie and i'm still reading all of this But why?
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Post by TheMadQueen on Dec 21, 2017 0:07:30 GMT
i haven't seen the movie and i'm still reading all of this But why? Idk lol spoilers have never bothered me that much, especially since I'm not super invested in the Star Wars franchise
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Dec 21, 2017 0:10:23 GMT
Really I would prefer to see TLJ again before ranking it (its that sort of a film). But my tentative rankings so far
TFA ESB TLJ/R1 (I find them about equal quality wise but in totally different ways) ANH RotJ
RotS
TPM AotC
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Post by Basil on Dec 21, 2017 0:13:32 GMT
1. A New Hope / The Last Jedi 2. The Empire Strikes Back 3. Return of the Jedi 4. Rogue One / The Force Awakens 5. The Phantom Menace 6. Revenge of the Sith ... 99. Attack of the Clones
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