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Post by atimeforwolves on May 25, 2016 13:07:06 GMT
Trying to answer, i found ths article (http://kulturawplot.pl/2016/05/24/hodor-tlumaczenia-gra-o-tron/) and there was one mindfuck thing... The first words spoken TO Hodor in the series:
Theon: Hodor!Hodor: Hodor? Theon: Help Bran down the hall.Edit: I checked that the same sentence was in books (of course!), but Maester luwin said that there. Oh Martin you're one genius bastard giphy.com/gifs/mindblown-TlK63EWmJDBa5MjIr6gI have to say it: Jonathan Pryce interview, THIS wow... polish internet rules (at least sometimes)
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 16:14:51 GMT
Yeah, I always though that too. But considering that they tuned down the shadier / creepier features of both CotF and Bloodraven (if that even was him), I wouldn't be surprised there's more to the CotF in the books. Good CotF and evil WW seems too much like a generic fantasy trope, and given how much GRRM has said he dislikes LotR's ending (everyone comes together to defeat the evil) I really doubt the story is heading there. Do you have a source for this? Cause the only critic I've seen Martin mention wrt LotR was Gandalf coming back improved, and Aragon ruling wisely for x amount of years with no details how. I don't think everyone coming together against the Others is avoidable tbh. Hasn't he said all the major characters are going to end up at the same place towards the end? There will be a point when they can't be ignored (the Wall falling, them marching south). Everyone might not be a big Avengers like team, but I'm sure all the characters are going to fight the Others in their own way. Maybe this: The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that's become the template. I'm not sure that it's a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that. www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=4It's absolutely brilliant interview, after reading it I truly and deeply fell in love with Martin and his books. In the context of this conversation, everything becomes much more profound and important. This is not only fantasy mixed up with political fiction, that's a real book about life and philosophy of life, the meaning of which you can discover lifelong. A Song of Ice and Fire should be known to be one of the classics of world literature. Just read this interview, I often come back to it, it's one of my favourite. But maybe @rooseisazorhai was't referring to this interview. I honestly do not necessarily got impression that Martin criticizes Tolkien here, rather puts really good questions and forces reader to answer by his own. Edit: Seven hells, I love this interview so much that I demand it become part both books and show canon!
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 14:15:41 GMT
If there is a battle in Mereen Jorah could just show up and get cured after that. I think that battle will be really quick and resolved by Khaleesi alone. @alcasinoroyale Thank you:)
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 13:18:51 GMT
I just took a 5 min break to eat and browse reddit and Im like 110% sure Bran warges Mad King long enough to show him WW and that is what "burn them all" refers to. Maybe thats why we see Jaime killing him this season I'm too naive and susceptible to the speculation for pure speculation hype, so maybe I just take a little break. But before I have to paste : Hello darkness my old firend... The white walkers come again . . .
In Bran's visions they were creeping
To the tree where he was sleeping
And the message, that he implanted, in his brain
Still remains
He held the door . . .
Hodor!
I bow to whoever invented it (source also reddit)
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 12:23:14 GMT
Nice. Would be great if Jorah and Sam interacts. But another thing that would make sense is if Jorah takes Victarion Greyjoys role. The red priest Moqorro healed Vics hand by giving him a Black charcoal hand. The new priestess Kinvara could give Jorah a black hand. I build this argumentation most of the fact that GoT need to maintain a high level of every arc and because of that Sam desperately needs somebody in Oldtown. From the story itself now there are a lot of possible variation for Jorah's journey. But I personally doubt in Jorah-healed-by-Kinvara-and-wait-on-Dany-in-Meereen resolution because that simply deprive special and touching meaning to their final scene (argument based on show's structure) and Jorah clearly rode in opposite direction than Daenerys and she went to Meereen, when Kinvara is now (argument based on story)
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 11:22:03 GMT
Admin King Tommen Thanks! Edit: Admin finale fits well, but could be too crowded, so I'm still not sure when they'll meet:/
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 9:41:34 GMT
This is just pure speculation, but based on pretty strong evidence, in this case the television rules and the internal logic of the show. Daenerys ordered Jorah find a cure for his greyscale and we do not know whether he will be back in season 6, or in the next one. There are many places that he can go, but if I were him I would get on the first ship sailing to Oldtown. Why Oldtown? Of course Citadel, maesters, healing etc. But (for GoT story) also the ability to interact with other known audience character - Sam. Let's face it, Sam's arc without his interaction with someone important, will be deadly boring. And I doubt show would introduced Marwyn, at this point, they get rid of the characters rather than introducing new ones (Euron and Kinvara were last main characters in my opinion). So these two separate characters must meet. How they will meet? In Citadel either Jorah recognizes Samwell as a brother of the Night's Watch (because of his clothes)or Sam hears Mormont's name and chooses to help the son of his former commander. I think Sam will help Jorah get...help from maesters (who might be worried about his highly contagious disease) or help him on his own (and be banned for that from Citadel and free to go back to the Wall). How possibly Sam knows how to do that? Remember our sweet Princess Shireen? I bet that first second he saw her, even if he was supposed to learn about White Walkers, he only "glanced" at at least 20 books about greyscale, of course in his free time:P And Night's Watch library sure has these kind of books, because well... one untreated patient 0 and after few years there will be nobody to defend the Wall. At this point (or in the last moment before Jorah leaves) Sam needs to learn something important about how to defeat WW. Most likely, one or more of these things: 1. Dragons are pretty good weapon to defeat the invasion of ice zombies (and guess who hatched three ancient beasts?) 2. Something about Azor Ahai/Prince that was promised prophecy: a)that PtwP would be born from Aerys and Rhaella line (Dany to the rescue!) b)the same thing that Rhaegar learned and decided to changed his life, probably something about the 3 Heads of Dragon, or earlier mentioned prophecy BUT MY TIN FOIL THEORY is that he may realized in the end the specific mix of two "magic" blood lines is needed: Targaryens and Starks. I belive in you Sam: "Oh, but it won't help us even if Targaryen and Stark would have baby in close future, it still be a baby and we need help now. If there was any this kind of relationship in the history... Wait, there actually was one. An awkard one, but still... Oh it doesn't matter, Prince Rhaegar was defeated at the Trident, and lady Lyanna died few months later, over a year or more after being abducted. Poor, honorable Lord Eddard came back to Winterfell with bones of his beloved sister and his newborn bastard son, my closest friend... Hm, I can't stop the feeling that I'm missing something important here..." (ad if Sam would figured out the biggest mystery of Seven Kingdoms, which is 99,9% impossible, but if he managed it Jorah will be happy to return to his Queen and give her hope that she still has some living relative, who needs her help). Yeaaah... just forget about this point. 3. Anything important. One way or another they have to meet each other and come up with the idea of cooperating. They are both best friends and closest advisors of two main protagonists of the series: Jon and Deanerys. And they have to build the bridge of trust and desire to mutual help between Jon and Dany. I simply don't know how Starks and Targaryens would united in the final war without losing precious time (J: Hi, You must give me your drago...Burned where he stands / J: Hi auntie, I'm last living son of Rhaeg... Burned where he stands. D: What? I have not traveled half the world to a usurper shoving me in the queue to the throne!). Jorah simply must inform his Queen, that Westeros desperately needs her help, and Sam must return to Jon with the news that he has found the rescue. And come on... these two characters are the loose ends of the story, which at this stage, just have to be tied up. Feel free to write, what do you think of this wild theory (or just make fun of it). I will be also grateful if someone would tell me, do you know any rumors/leaks about Jorah's arc in the second half of the season, or know where scenes with Iain Glen were filmed? Thanks for reading, my post was way too long after all
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 4:05:50 GMT
I love how the night king wasn't born at night It wasn't Bran's fault. He just did what he needed to do (warg hodor in future) and didn't know what it would do to Wylis. He looked horrified, and I feel bad that Hodor seemed to know what his fate would be and still did everything anyway. I also think that Hodor knew from the beginning what's gonna happen and even that he decided to defend his friends. I refuse to think of him reduced to Bran's tool and refuse to blame Bran or 3ER for everything. In E2, after vision in Winterfell, Bran asked Hodor what's happened to him and he only gave Bran this sad look and like always said "Hodor"... He definitely knew Since then I try prepare myself for something like that, even that was quite shock how strong and complex was predestination idea in this situation (btw recommend Predestination movie). Eh, I need special Tribute to Hodor thread and some kind of group therapy after this ending
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 1:19:44 GMT
@envie It is confusing, indeed and it's not even first discussion about it (before in General leaks...). Now I understand why they change Asha's name in show. But also I still understand why D&D decide on "Night's King/Night King"- that sound really cool for ultimate villain I see also that, like you said, we agree in most issues, but there was small missunderstanding between us.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 0:58:11 GMT
Edit: repeat the post by accidence, sorry
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 0:38:38 GMT
Not Goerge, showmakers. And maybe not even them, but person who wrote synopsis on HBO Viewer's Guide. One typo in one character's name and confusion which never ends. David and Dan both called him The Night's King in the "Inside the Episode" way back when he was first introduced. They clearly meant for him to be called that (I think we first saw him in season 4 with the baby, right?) ... Edit: Also, the most recent Inside the Episode is titled: Night's King Creation ... so this is not a 'typo' but show canon for who he is. The book may be different and maybe George never intended for them to call this 'different' White Walker leader the Night's King but this is what we have and other than the mythological "13th LC" story, we have nothing else to really go on in the books for another one. GRRM may have said long ago he doubts the Night's King makes any appearance in the book but we don't have any more books yet to even say what he now thinks or writes differently either. Martin wrote it year ago after people start asking him if the Night's King in the show is the same person as Night's King in books. In HBO Viewer's Guide first we got Night's King, and that was quickly removed, bocause of other mythological character who was mentioned in History and Lore (part o show canon) has the same name. Then they decide to return to "Night's King". But as we saw yesterday Night's King whose creation was in show, can't be the same person as Night's King from myths. Night's King from myths was 13 Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and Night's Watch was created after first war with WW. If D&D want both Night's King to be the same person that's the most illogical thing they did in entire show.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 24, 2016 0:18:17 GMT
stoneheartsrevenge "Yes he was' refers to Father of Dragons question: "But wasn't he included in a DVD featurette or something?", not to George. @envie but they still just can't be the same character, even if the name is the same or similar. I'm deeply sorry, but apparently both my English and the ability to formulate logical sentences are horrible and I do not know how to write it clear
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 23:51:55 GMT
Books: Night's King- 13LC Martin said about him: As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have. Leader of the Others- we don't know his name yet, maybe it's Great Other (maybe Great Other is their god, ultimate enemy for R'hllor), maybe he has no nome at all, maybe they had many leaders throughout history becouse maybe they're longliving but mortal. We don't know yet, Winds of Winter may reveal that.
Show: Night's King- 13LC, story the same as books, appear in History and Lore: Leader of the Others/White Walkers- name Night's King was mistake which only appear in HBO Viewer's Guide: The synopsis for "Oathkeeper" on the HBO Viewer's Guide originally listed this character as the Night's King, though this was later removed. During the Inside the Episode for "Hardhome" Weiss and Benioff referred to the character explicitly as "the Night King". We should use title the Night King, but almost everyone use Night's King (it just sounds better); his origin was revealed in last episode
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 23:30:38 GMT
Yes he was and yes they are canon. The whole thing is that the name "Night's King" was used twice to two different charactercs and they change it as soon as they realize people start to think they are the same person. I remember that and remember how quickly they removed"Night's King" title from their site. Then the confusion lies with George in naming 2 separate WW's basically the same name. While the legend of the LC guy is in the background material, the show isn't going to reference that character on the actual television show which makes it very easy for us to know who we're talking about when they say "Night's King". George is the one who has to explain the difference constantly since he made the decision to name two similar characters similarly. Not Goerge, showmakers. And maybe not even them, but person who wrote synopsis on HBO Viewer's Guide. One typo in one character's name and confusion which never ends.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 23:07:01 GMT
King Tommen what i meant is that the Night's King was created from an obsidian dagger...so would an obsidian dagger be able to kill him? Obviously dragonglass can kill a regular WW as well as valyrian steel (and also i'm guessing dragonfire). Because according to the flashback, he already has one wedged in his heart. Maybe its a matter of returning the heat back into it since the COTF turned it to ice. But if the NK could be killed with just obsidian, then i can't see how he was difficult to stop in the past. Now he has an undead army but that wasn't always so.. I think that the solution is the simplest possible: only Azor Ahai/ Prince that was promised can stop him. The new Last Hero. And it may even be related to the Stark's blood (if the Last Hero was Stark), and this would explain why the NK paid special attention to Jon in Hardhome and why he wants to kill Bran.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 22:34:45 GMT
The Night's King on the show is the first WW being made (we know because it's the same actor). The TV mythology doesn't include the 13th NW guy (who came along much later, well after the WW's were a thing). The book does and they call him the Night King. In the books, it's very doubtful we see a leader of the WW's in the present time. But wasn't he included in a DVD featurette or something? I know he's never been mentioned in the show at all, but those things are canon, right?Yes he was and yes they are canon. The whole thing is that the name "Night's King" was used twice to two different charactercs and they change it as soon as they realize people start to think they are the same person. I remember that and remember how quickly they removed"Night's King" title from their site.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 22:12:32 GMT
Well I certainly hope George will eventually explain all this Night King / Night's King stuff a little better now that the cat's out of the bag how they were created because his legends and supernatural stuff is all over the place with inconsistencies and vague information. I'm sure that's partly intentional as "myths" are often that way and thousands of years have passed since all this started. Bran is the only living human who knows the truth about them now. Meera probably does as well but she wasn't in the vision so she can't imagine it as clearly as Bran. He's very key essential to getting word to the wall and south of the wall about this and how to stop them. Though I think Jon already knows how to stop them just not how to get that done yet. He did: As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have. grrm.livejournal.com/428790.html?thread=21724918IIRC in books we still don't know the name of leader of the Others
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 22:05:01 GMT
"The synopsis for "Oathkeeper" on the HBO Viewer's Guide originally listed this character as the Night's King, though this was later removed. During the Inside the Episode for "Hardhome" Weiss and Benioff referred to the character explicitly as "the Night King"." source: gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Night's_King They just repeat name and that cause misunderstanding. Yes I remember them calling him the Night's King. It's been assumed he is the Night's King and even has an icy 'crown' of sorts to convey that. Now we're to believe he's not the Night's King afterall? Definitely he's not the same person as 13LC. But the name itself is cool and everyone (audience)use it.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 21:54:42 GMT
The Night's King mentioned in the lore was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who found a female WW while ranging. He took the Night's Queen to his castle (Nightfort), and when he gave her his seed, he gave his soul as well. That guy was most likely named Brandon Stark, and he ruled the Nightfort for years as a Night's King before his brother (KitN) and some King Beyond the Wall slayed him. I'm confused here. People think the 13th Lord Commander is the head OG white walker? How can that be when his whole story is based off him meeting another White Walker? He's clearly not the first or the king. "The synopsis for "Oathkeeper" on the HBO Viewer's Guide originally listed this character as the Night's King, though this was later removed. During the Inside the Episode for "Hardhome" Weiss and Benioff referred to the character explicitly as "the Night King"." source: gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Night's_King They just repeat name and that cause misunderstanding.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 23, 2016 21:17:37 GMT
Dubbing. Who the fuck invented that. Who the fuck dubs anything else than children's movies? Don't people know how to read? Subtitles are invented. The Finnish subtitles didn't handle it well: Hold the door = Pidättele ovea But it's dubbing with a single voice, I assume, not one for every character. But it's still awful. But I am curious how they did that, no way they can pass a language barrier on this Lector, not dubbing, but still drown out a bit original voices.
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