mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 10, 2016 2:38:02 GMT
I think mandzipop meant more that Jon leaving the Night's Watch and leading an army of wildlings to Winterfell, also allowing them to settle in the Gift, will piss off some of the Northern Lords especially the Umbers since the wildlings are essentially living very close to Last Hearth. "The hatred that runs deep", which was described in the casting call for Smalljon refers to that. So I could see them not liking Jon for allowing the wildlings to pass through the wall, even if they do or don't know about the mutiny at Castle Black and his resurrection. Ok I think I understand better from that angle - sorry I'm confusing timelines in the show then because I'm trying to imagine when Ramsay would have time to pull in Northern Lords like the Umbers before Snowbowl goes down. Sure it's 9 episodes deep for us, but in show-verse time passage it can't be more than a few weeks at most unless they intend to do a big time jump. By the time Jon starts marching south to hit Winterfell, the armies won't have been assembled yet will they? I always got the impression this was an impulsive "We ride now!" kind of thing and not something that was planned out over a long period of time with negotiations and parlay or anything like that happening. But I do agree the wildlings south of the wall will rile up a lot of Northerners. Not to the point they'd jump ship and join Boltons though... we've seen from battlefield shots that there are northerners assembled so I know they're there. Do you really think they'd side with Boltons and not Sansa/Jon? I think the Karstarks and Umbers will genuinely join the Bolton's. I think Ramsey will try to prove to them that he is fighting in the best interests of the north and that he has killed Roose and Walda in revenge of the Red Wedding. I don't think they will turn last minute either. I just keep seeing this as the Battle of Bosworth with Littlefinger turning up in a Lord Stanley type role. The rest I see siding with Jon and Sansa. It looks like team Jon leaves Castle Black in episode 5. That is 3 episodes to gather and army of the north. That doesn't sound like a lot of time to me, but they might have borrowed Littlefinger's jet pack. Jon needs to physically visit one of the houses as he needs some Stark attire. My assumption is that Sansa goes to the wall as it is the most logical place. If Brienne rescues her and Theon, they can go on horseback as Brienne has horses. By the time Sansa gets there, Ramsey will have sent a version of the pink letter and Jon will be alive in some fashion. I'm probably completely wrong, but that is how I see it going.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 10, 2016 1:57:11 GMT
A lot of men deserted Stannis because of what Mel did. I doubt Davos finds out until later in the season. It depends on how long Jon is a corpse. Even if nobody finds out, he has still deserted the Nights Watch and allowed the Wildlings to invade the north. That is treason in the eyes of many. I could be mis-remembering how the show handled it (which obv. didn't happen in the books) but between the time the mercenaries took off and they burned Shireen, no men deserted - they had already done so before Melisandre burned her. The remaining men there went into battle and died. Though some of Selyse's men could have taken off right after she committed suicide, but I don't think they specified that exactly on the show. As for the 'treasons' of Jon - those were more real in the book version. The show has dodged around all of that and when Jon's assassinated there are only a handful of people who witnessed it. No Selyse and her men and all of that who were present in the books. There's almost no one there to report this information outside of Castle Black. I do not think his resurrection is going to even be known by most. So when has he exactly 'deserted' the Night's Watch on the show now that Ramsay would know about? It has been reported that there is officially a new Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. I'm sure that the entire north will be told. How can they explain that Jon is no longer the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch? The Nights Watch do not get involved with the politics, so why would Jon be fighting against the Bolton's? It was after Shireen was burned. He got the 3 pieces of bad news all at once, the half the men had deserted and taken their horses, Selyse hung herself and Mel disappeared.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 10, 2016 1:42:11 GMT
Jon and Sansa are attacking them with Wildlings and a red witch who burns innocent little girls to death. Jon is a re-animated monster, who committed treason against the Nights Watch and then deserted them. He could tell them Sansa has been bewitched, and that they need the Umbers to take Rickon to Winterfell for his own protection. I highly doubt anyone aside from Melisandre herself (and now Davos) knows what happened to Shireen at this point. Think about it, all of them are dead. Selyse, Stannis, all of his armies. I'm pretty sure the hired mercenaries abandoned before they burned her and the men who were left were slaughtered by Bolton's army. Same with Jon being a "Monster" I don't think that many people are going to be left alive to tell the tale of his assassination and reanimation to be honest - so none of that's going to get easily back to Ramsay Bolton - not before Snowbowl goes down anyways. A lot of men deserted Stannis because of what Mel did. I doubt Davos finds out until later in the season. It depends on how long Jon is a corpse. Even if nobody finds out, he has still deserted the Nights Watch and allowed the Wildlings to invade the north. That is treason in the eyes of many.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 10, 2016 1:16:01 GMT
I have a bit of a theory about the burning crosses in Snowbowl.
I doubt that Ramsey would flay a dead person. A complete waste of a good flaying opportunity. That is why I doubt that it is Stannis.
Ramsey is not stupid. He wasn't really involved with the Red Wedding. That gives him a bit more leverage with the northern Lords. I think the Karstarks would have sided with Ramsey, however the Umbers has confused me slightly, I've got a sneaky suspicion that it is genuine. Ramsey only has to convince the Umbers that he is on the side of the north and that he is the one to protect them. He could make out that it is Jon and Sansa that are attacking the north.
Jon and Sansa are attacking them with Wildlings and a red witch who burns innocent little girls to death. Jon is a re-animated monster, who committed treason against the Nights Watch and then deserted them. He could tell them Sansa has been bewitched, and that they need the Umbers to take Rickon to Winterfell for his own protection.
By flaying Roose and Walda he is avenging the Starks for the Red Wedding. By burning them he is saying that we burn those who are guilty of committing crimes against the north, you burn innocent little children.
To me, if he did something along those lines, it would be intimidating, and in a fashion, half truthful.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 8, 2016 1:09:05 GMT
My first proper post outside of the introduction thread.
I'm really pumped that we'll find out more about Mel. The only person who calls her the Red Woman is Davos. Both show and book Mel is the person who fascinates and confuses me the most. Her thoughts, actions and supposed motives don't add up.
Someone on WotW noted that in the programme synopsis Jon is called Jon Snow. They never call him that in the synopsis. They always just refer to him as Jon. Hmmmmmmm.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Mar 30, 2016 6:16:43 GMT
Hello! I am a show fan and a book fan. I am not generally in to fantasy and would never have read the books without first having been hooked on the show, but I am glad I did read them. They are very possibly the most richly detailed books I have ever read with so many layers to pick apart that it can become quite obsessive. I look forward to discussions on both versions here. Hello, and welcome! I too found the books through the show! Hi All It's really nice to be here. I've been reading some of the threads and it seems like a nice and very friendly place. I started watching the show and started reading the books midway through season 3. Absolutely addicted, and considering I'm not a big tv fan that says a lot. My big love is F1. People find that odd considering I'm a woman. I might not get chance to post until the season has started as I'm going to read all of the season 6 prediction threads prior to the start of the season. By the time it starts I'm guessing that will be over 20k posts. I should just do it. I hope. I look forward to the chat once I've read them. Mandz Hello, and welcome! Wow, good luck reading all of the speculation - there are a lot of pages! That's dedication if I've ever seen it! ps I'm not a stalker but it's nice to have more British people here, I saw your Twitter said you were from Sheffield. That's me. I'm not difficult to find. Not sure if that is a good thing. Yes I am from Sheffield. Home to Ned Stark himself.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Mar 29, 2016 10:06:59 GMT
Hi All It's really nice to be here. I've been reading some of the threads and it seems like a nice and very friendly place. I started watching the show and started reading the books midway through season 3. Absolutely addicted, and considering I'm not a big tv fan that says a lot. My big love is F1. People find that odd considering I'm a woman. I might not get chance to post until the season has started as I'm going to read all of the season 6 prediction threads prior to the start of the season. By the time it starts I'm guessing that will be over 20k posts. I should just do it. I hope. I look forward to the chat once I've read them. Mandz Great! If you don't mind spoilers, you should really check this wonderful thread: underthehearttree.freeforums.net/thread/553/road-season-all-info-post. Pretty much everything we know/we suspect is there. Thank you. I will have a look. I'm fairly up to date with speculation but it is nice to see a fresh point of view to give new ideas.
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mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
Posts: 333
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Post by mandzipop on Mar 28, 2016 22:37:35 GMT
Hi All It's really nice to be here. I've been reading some of the threads and it seems like a nice and very friendly place. I started watching the show and started reading the books midway through season 3. Absolutely addicted, and considering I'm not a big tv fan that says a lot. My big love is F1. People find that odd considering I'm a woman. I might not get chance to post until the season has started as I'm going to read all of the season 6 prediction threads prior to the start of the season. By the time it starts I'm guessing that will be over 20k posts. I should just do it. I hope. I look forward to the chat once I've read them. Mandz
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