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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 22:02:06 GMT
I've long assumed that the three characters with the most point of view chapters in the books would end up being the heroes of the whole thing once they discovered they're all Targs and teamed up (Dany, Jon, Tyrion). I always thought the idea of either Jon or Dany going bad was ridiculous. But now that it's looking like Mel is going to resurrect Jon, I'm worried. How could he not end up being a dark version of the former Jon Snow now? This wasn't a problem in the books, because I fully believed he would warg into Ghost and get resurrected by the Old Gods and/or Bran. Nothing has happened in show to indicate that, though, and Mel is there and doubting herself, so perfectly set up to embrace a new savior. So, what do you think, if Mel resurrects Jon, does that mean to you that he will become a villainous character, or perhaps a lot more morally grey, or does it not mean anything because Mel herself is not really villainous, just...determined? I think Jon Snow could stand to become a bit more of a grey character instead of so Ned Stark righteous. Sure, he got some color with the wildling excursion but he still came out of that a hero, and his saving of the wildlings only made him look more heroic except in the eyes of the Night's Watch. In fact people hate the Night's Watch now and the show made that a more popular ideal than it was in the books where Jon was actually an oathbreaker. So all that being said, if Melisandre resurrecting him turns him a little darker, that could be the right thing he needs going forward to face what's ahead. However, I'll argue against myself only because I don't really find Melisandre to be a 'dark' character - just one who is wrong and screwing up like others have. She has as much chance to redeem herself as Jaime did. People love Jaime and this is the dude who shoved Bran out the window! The emotional fallout from Shireen's sacrifice is still so raw in everyone's mind, we think of her as pure evil (and she is in that way, killing a child intentionally). But what if she's about to make a turnaround? Maybe this fall from "God's Grace" that we saw at the end of s5 is Melisandre's wake up call that she's fucking up. Like Jaime, maybe she'll find a way to serve the right purpose in resurrecting Jon Snow and turning things around where she pretty much destroyed House Baratheon (and that was not her intent to do). I'm not trying to convince anyone she's not evil and I hate her every bit as most fans for what she did to Shireen, but when I try to rationalize her resurrecting Jon Snow - I remember that he was not the same man as Stannis and won't be the same man as he was before he died. I don't think he's going to be the same, but I don't think Melisandre's influence is going to make any difference in who he becomes. I certainly don't see him worshipping the Red God at all. Beric wasn't that much different after his R'hllor resurrection either. I think it will be the same for Jon Snow. Maybe he'll be more focused and forceful. Those are good things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 22:15:15 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 5:37:37 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store. I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 7:45:00 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store. I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. True. Comparing what he's now to what he was back in Season 1 shows you his skills.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 8:22:59 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store. I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. I wouldn't go so far as to say brilliant but he's definitely a leading man now, that's for sure. He REALLY upped his game in s4 and s5. As for whether he can pull of a greyer character, I think he played dark very well in the Janos beheading scene, so if unJon has more of that kind of bitter, righteous anger (which I imagine he will) I think he'll pull it off pretty well.
But yeah. I think Jon will darken big time. At the very least he'll become much more utilitarian and helluva lot less Starky and absolutist (because utilitarianism at its most fucked up extreme is Mel's bread and butter)...at most, I dunno. Either way he's gonna kill a ton of people...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 12:41:20 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store. I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. I realized that he's a lot better than I'd given him credit for when he did that dinner skit with Seth Meyers. He brought the heavy feeling of the show to the table with him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 12:43:12 GMT
I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. I wouldn't go so far as to say brilliant but he's definitely a leading man now, that's for sure. He REALLY upped his game in s4 and s5. As for whether he can pull of a greyer character, I think he played dark very well in the Janos beheading scene, so if unJon has more of that kind of bitter, righteous anger (which I imagine he will) I think he'll pull it off pretty well.
But yeah. I think Jon will darken big time. At the very least he'll become much more utilitarian and helluva lot less Starky and absolutist (because utilitarianism at its most fucked up extreme is Mel's bread and butter)...at most, I dunno. Either way he's gonna kill a ton of people...
Ned is truly dead. I am looking forward to that shadow dragon now, though. OH! Shadow winged-wolf/dragon!?
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 22, 2015 12:53:49 GMT
It will be interesting to see if Kit has the acting chops to pull off whatever is in store. I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. I agree. His acting has improved with each season, IMO. A lot of the actors on this show have..(Emilia being the exception, I think she's going backwards most of the time)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 18:34:46 GMT
I think he does. I honestly believe he is blossoming into a brilliant actor. I wouldn't go so far as to say brilliant but he's definitely a leading man now, that's for sure. He REALLY upped his game in s4 and s5. As for whether he can pull of a greyer character, I think he played dark very well in the Janos beheading scene, so if unJon has more of that kind of bitter, righteous anger (which I imagine he will) I think he'll pull it off pretty well.
But yeah. I think Jon will darken big time. At the very least he'll become much more utilitarian and helluva lot less Starky and absolutist (because utilitarianism at its most fucked up extreme is Mel's bread and butter)...at most, I dunno. Either way he's gonna kill a ton of people...
Kit's still young and hasn't had as many jobs under his belt the way other actors in the show have so by comparison he's still not 'leading man' caliber just yet. I am unfairly comparing him to the likes of Dillane, NCW, Dinklage etc... who again, have bigger resumes. I think Kit is definitely on his way to being leading man material and since he technically *is* a leading man in the show, he's showing more and more talent as each season passes. The same for Sophie. She was always good from Season 1 on and is just a "Natural" at acting where I think some of the other youngsters really have to work at it. This past season was her top performances though by far. They gave her some very mature/awkward material (and not just the rape stuff but tons of other really emotionally difficult bits) and she fucking nailed it. But anyways - back to Jon Snow resurrection and Kit's acting ... I think really if they do go with a darker/grey type character for him he's going to do very well at it. He's drawn naturally with an emo face LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 18:39:47 GMT
I agree with most of you that a darker/greyer direction would be good for the character, as he's generally the heroic cliche character of the series. It would make sense for his arc to shift now, especially after a massive turning point like getting 'killed.' His last scene was pretty interesting with his decision to break his oath and go after Ramsay, it will be interesting to see if his decision making becomes more self-serving in the future. Just please don't throw up on any prostitutes, Jon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 3:56:59 GMT
Not sure where else to stick this, so it goes in Jon Snow Resurrection because why the fuck not... best collection of Jon Snow death reactions for unsullied on youtube. "I'm done." haha.
ETA: That actually wasn't the one I wanted to link but I'll leave it up ... here's the better one:
(Now I can't find the one with the black woman who went off, she was hilarious)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:15:36 GMT
The Olly hate is strong in that video. Of course, we all laugh now, that's probably all of us during season 6. Of course, I'm trying to think if there are any characters left that I like. They took Stannis and Barristan from me in season 5. I suppose they'll rez Jon in 6x02 then kill him again in 6x10.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:27:57 GMT
Of course, we all laugh now, that's probably all of us during season 6. Of course, I'm trying to think if there are any characters left that I like. They took Stannis and Barristan from me in season 5. I suppose they'll rez Jon in 6x02 then kill him again in 6x10. I don't expect that he would die twice, if anything his fate might be replacing the Night's King. I just hope that Jon or Tormund kill Alliser and Olly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:32:21 GMT
Of course, we all laugh now, that's probably all of us during season 6. Of course, I'm trying to think if there are any characters left that I like. They took Stannis and Barristan from me in season 5. I suppose they'll rez Jon in 6x02 then kill him again in 6x10. I don't expect that he would die twice, if anything his fate might be replacing the Night's King. I just hope that Jon or Tormund kill Alliser and Olly. Don't rule out Ghost for that either, I'd say.
As for Jon dying again at some point but if he does for good it'd be an s8 thing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:34:23 GMT
Don't rule out Ghost for that either, I'd say.
True, that would be better, but after Season 5, it doesn't seem like D&D cared about his relationship to Jon. I thought they would at least have Ghost stay close with him early in the season or sense that there was going to be a mutiny.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:42:25 GMT
Don't rule out Ghost for that either, I'd say.
True, that would be better, but after Season 5, it doesn't seem like D&D cared about his relationship to Jon. I thought they would at least have Ghost stay close with him early in the season or sense that there was going to be a mutiny. The guy in Calgary who trains the wolf used for Ghost in s5 (they used to do the wolf stuff in LA) said in an interview with some Alberta-based publication I recall linking here some months ago, that there'd be much more wolf stuff in s6. And their relationship's been established enough in past seasons that people wouldn't really ask, "Why's that wolf killing the guys who killed Jon?"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:45:25 GMT
The guy in Calgary who trains the wolf used for Ghost in s5 (they used to do the wolf stuff in LA) said in an interview with some Alberta-based publication I recall linking here some months ago, that there'd be much more wolf stuff in s6. And their relationship's been established enough in past seasons that people wouldn't really ask, "Why's that wolf killing the guys who killed Jon?" Yeah I remember seeing that and no I don't think anyone will ask that question, it just seemed odd that he barely appeared compared to Season 4. I guess it makes sense though.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on Aug 25, 2015 4:46:56 GMT
Don't rule out Ghost for that either, I'd say.
True, that would be better, but after Season 5, it doesn't seem like D&D cared about his relationship to Jon. I thought they would at least have Ghost stay close with him early in the season or sense that there was going to be a mutiny. I suspect they came to the realization the whole "Ghost" thing, POV in the wolf, wouldn't work since it's an internal dialogue thing. D&D are very apprehensive when it comes to trying to make internal dialogue work externally. Look at Tyrion and Tysha, a story that would have worked with Tyrion playing off Jaime/Varys/Jorah for about 6 whole episodes was cut. Factor in that Jon would have no way to possibly talk as a wolf and you can see why they've probably dropped it. The guy in Calgary who trains the wolf used for Ghost in s5 (they used to do the wolf stuff in LA) said in an interview with some Alberta-based publication I recall linking here some months ago, that there'd be much more wolf stuff in s6. And their relationship's been established enough in past seasons that people wouldn't really ask, "Why's that wolf killing the guys who killed Jon?" Yeah I remember seeing that and no I don't think anyone will ask that question, it just seemed odd that he barely appeared compared to Season 4. I guess it makes sense though. More likely Nymeria stuff and Chekov's Wolfpack, IMO. Although I'd love for them to do the Ghost stuff, I just don't see it very likely coupled with D&D and the fact Jon never said "Ghost" as he laid on the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:51:05 GMT
The guy in Calgary who trains the wolf used for Ghost in s5 (they used to do the wolf stuff in LA) said in an interview with some Alberta-based publication I recall linking here some months ago, that there'd be much more wolf stuff in s6. And their relationship's been established enough in past seasons that people wouldn't really ask, "Why's that wolf killing the guys who killed Jon?" Yeah I remember seeing that and no I don't think anyone will ask that question, it just seemed odd that he barely appeared compared to Season 4. I guess it makes sense though. It may have had to do with them changing where and who they shot the wolves with. It could've been there was some sort of problem with the LA wolf-filming bit or something got too expensive or something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 4:57:13 GMT
I suspect they came to the realization the whole "Ghost" thing, POV in the wolf, wouldn't work since it's an internal dialogue thing. D&D are very apprehensive when it comes to trying to make internal dialogue work externally. Look at Tyrion and Tysha, a story that would have worked with Tyrion playing off Jaime/Varys/Jorah for about 6 whole episodes was cut. Factor in that Jon would have no way to possibly talk as a wolf and you can see why they've probably dropped it. More likely Nymeria stuff and Chekov's Wolfpack, IMO. Although I'd love for them to do the Ghost stuff, I just don't see it very likely coupled with D&D and the fact Jon never said "Ghost" as he laid on the ground. It's a difficult task trying to translate character's thoughts on screen unless they use voiceover, which probably wouldn't be effective at this point in the show. Nymeria is more likely since Arya will be blind for a few episodes and I suspect that Nymeria will show up somewhere in the Riverlands storyline.
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