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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 19:36:47 GMT
Best characters are Katniss and Haymitch, let's be real.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:37:31 GMT
Best characters are Katniss and Haymitch, let's be real. + Effie
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:41:04 GMT
@fireandblood and Basil, I can never forgive you guys. Katniss voted FOR the Hunger games to happen again. Sorry, but that's just... ugh.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:44:32 GMT
Best characters are Katniss and Haymitch, let's be real. I hate both of them. Although I love to hate them. They are good characters, but awful people.
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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 19:47:50 GMT
That's actually one of the reasons why I love Katniss and Haymitch so much, they're not inherently good, they make a lot of very questionable choices, which makes them complex characters, in my opinion. Peeta on the other hand is so one-dimensionally a good person, it's almost boring. He's the Jon Snow of Panem.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:56:12 GMT
That's actually one of the reasons why I love Katniss and Haymitch so much, they're not inherently good, they make a lot of very questionable choices, which makes them complex characters, in my opinion. Peeta on the other hand is so one-dimensionally a good person, it's almost boring. He's the Jon Snow of Panem. IMO that is simply a misinterpretation of the character. He is exceptionally moral, but that doesn't make him a Gary Stue/one-dimensional, because at the same time he is also quite weak and in need of help. Nevertheless, his morality makes him the strongest character. This juxtaposition is very interesting and not one-dimensional at all. Peeta is the most complex character in The Hunger Games. Just saying. Jon Snow and Peeta Mellark have as much in common as a water melon and a potato. I'm not gonna dignify this with a response. I still love you, though. Even when I hate you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:01:27 GMT
@fireandblood and Basil , I can never forgive you guys. Katniss voted FOR the Hunger games to happen again. Sorry, but that's just... ugh. Ngl, I would have voted for them again too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:04:24 GMT
@fireandblood and Basil , I can never forgive you guys. Katniss voted FOR the Hunger games to happen again. Sorry, but that's just... ugh. Ngl, I would have voted for them again too. This makes me sad.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:05:42 GMT
The Ethics teacher in me is sobbing right now, ngl.
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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 20:07:05 GMT
@fireandblood and Basil , I can never forgive you guys. Katniss voted FOR the Hunger games to happen again. Sorry, but that's just... ugh. Ngl, I would have voted for them again too. If I were Katniss in that situation, after all the losses she's endured, I probably would have voted for them as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:08:07 GMT
Ngl, I would have voted for them again too. If I were Katniss in that situation, after all the losses she's endured, I probably would have voted for them as well. And how would you justify this decision? We are talking about innocent children here, just saying.
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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 20:11:00 GMT
If I were Katniss in that situation, after all the losses she's endured, I probably would have voted for them as well. And how would you justify this decision? We are talking about innocent children here, just saying. How is it justifiable for Lady Stoneheart to hang all Freys? I'd want the people who were responsible for my misery to suffer the same way I've suffered. I'm not saying that I'd absolutely do it, but I would definitely consider it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:24:40 GMT
And how would you justify this decision? We are talking about innocent children here, just saying. How is it justifiable for Lady Stoneheart to hang all Freys? I'd want the people who were responsible for my misery to suffer the same way I've suffered. I'm not saying that I'd absolutely do it, but I would definitely consider it. These are completely different situations, though. LSH kills the actual perpetrators of the RW. Katniss indirectly kills innocent children who had nothing to do with her misery. Besides, LSH is barely human (she is a shell of a human). I'm not sure if we can still apply ethical thinking to LSH. By the way, I don't condone revenge killings, not even when it comes to LSH. I just find it incredibly fascinating, well-written and sad. In the case of Katniss it is still fascinating, well-written and sad, but she is not a shell of a human. She didn't die. She wasn't resurrected. She is clearly still able to feel happiness (as we can see through her future with Peeta). But most importantly, she is still able to apply reason. Lady Stoneheart is not IMO. Katniss knows exactly what her decision meant. It's a stone cold decision and incredibly weak of her. She knows how sick and perverted the Hunger Games are and still she condones the death of even more children. She learnt absolutely nothing.
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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 20:30:15 GMT
Dude, you've played The Last of Us, right?
Okay, in the end, did Joel do the right thing? Absolutely fucking not. Do you understand why he did the things he did? Of course you do. It's kinda the same thing here, in my opinion. Joel didn't give a shit about humanity, humans killed his daughter, not the infected. Katniss doesn't really give a shit about Panem either, at least not anymore. She wanted to kill herself, after she shot her final arrow. More Hunger Games is like a reeeally bad thing, I'm not denying that at all, but it makes sense to me why she voted in favour of them. Also, Katniss is broken as fuck at this point. Maybe not quite as broken as LSH, but still extremely damaged from everything that has happened to her. The epilogue takes place like 15 years later, and she's still not completely healed.
I'm not saying it's the morally right thing to do, because of course it's not. But I understand where she's coming from and if I were in her place, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't make the exact same choices as her.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:31:26 GMT
Ngl, I would have voted for them again too. This makes me sad. I'm sad that you're sad I don't know. I'm 90000% against capital punishment and I don't really believe in the whole an eye for an eye thing, but... its hard not to in this case. It was just one last time, right? If I had gone through the games themselves (TWICE) and came out the other side, I would absolutely want the people who were getting off on that to go through that horror themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:45:35 GMT
Dude, you've played The Last of Us, right? Okay, in the end, did Joel do the right thing? Absolutely fucking not. Do you understand why he did the things he did? Of course you do. It's kinda the same thing here, in my opinion. Joel didn't give a shit about humanity, humans killed his daughter, not the infected. Katniss doesn't really give a shit about Panem either, at least not anymore. She wanted to kill herself, after she shot her final arrow. More Hunger Games is like a reeeally bad thing, I'm not denying that at all, but it makes sense to me why she voted in favour of them. Also, Katniss is broken as fuck at this point. Maybe not quite as broken as LSH, but still extremely damaged from everything that has happened to her. The epilogue takes place like 15 years later, and she's still not completely healed. I'm not saying it's the morally right thing to do, because of course it's not. But I understand where she's coming from and if I were in her place, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't make the exact same choices as her. Again, completely different situations. Joel was in a moral dilemma. Saving the world or saving one little girl he loves like a daughter? Both decisions are morally wrong. It just depends on what is more important to you, i.e. the utilitarian approach of saying "let's choose the option that provides us with the greatest benefit for the most people", then Joel should definitely have sacrificed Ellie. Or you could argue with human dignity, saying you can't sacrifice human life just to save other people (because human life cannot be counted up like this), in this case Joel made the correct decision. As I said: moral dilemma. Besides, Ellie was in a dire situation. Joel had to react fast and it was an impossible decision. Katniss was not under pressure. Not really. It was not a life or death situation. There was no reason to let those children die, except maybe for her own desire for revenge. Yes, she is broken, but so is Peeta. So is Annie. Yet they decided differently. I can understand where she's coming from, too. I never denied that. I'm just saying that it is all kinds of wrong and that I really, really dislike her for that, because it's ok to have those feelings. She is broken and she hates the world. That makes her a very tragic character, but it's still not a good enough excuse for her shitty decisions. But as I said, as a literary character she is still very well written and Jennifer Lawrence was perfect in that role.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 20:54:21 GMT
This makes me sad. I'm sad that you're sad I don't know. I'm 90000% against capital punishment and I don't really believe in the whole an eye for an eye thing, but... its hard not to in this case. It was just one last time, right? If I had gone through the games themselves (TWICE) and came out the other side, I would absolutely want the people who were getting off on that to go through that horror themselves. It's ok. We are all lucky this is just fiction. Let's hope that we will never have to make such crazy and sick decisions. I just strongly identify with Peeta here, that's all.
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Post by Basil on Nov 25, 2015 20:58:50 GMT
Personally, I think the decision Joel and Katniss had to make was quite similar. Those last symbolic Hunger Games were meant to appease the rebels and prevent them from executing more residents of the Capitol than was absolutely necessary, so from that point of view, sacrificing 23 children could have prevent the deaths of who knows how many people. Sacrificing Ellie could have prevented the deaths of millions. Again, I'm not saying I approve of her decision, I'm just saying that I love anti-heroes who sometimes give in to their primitive urges for revenge, and I find them infinitely more fascinating than traditional heroes, who always strive to do the right thing, no matter what the circumstances.
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Post by lordcarson on Nov 25, 2015 21:01:00 GMT
I think why I liked this one better than the first part (and this is coming from a slightly more objective viewpoint as someone who has not read the books) is that it was way more emotional. Literally nothing happened in the first part, there was no real emotion or consequences and it easily could have all been one movie but this one had so much more feeling and things actually happened and they happened for reasons and even the downtime scenes were more powerful. It was nowhere as good as the first two but I didn't feel like I wasted my money like I did when I left part 1.
Also Finnick is the best character gtfo if u disagree
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 21:04:51 GMT
Personally, I think the decision Joel and Katniss had to make was quite similar. Those last symbolic Hunger Games were meant to appease the rebels and prevent them from executing more residents of the Capitol than was absolutely necessary, so from that point of view, sacrificing 23 children could have prevent the deaths of who knows how many people. Sacrificing Ellie could have prevented the deaths of millions.Again, I'm not saying I approve of her decision, I'm just saying that I love anti-heroes who sometimes give in to their primitive urges for revenge, and I find them infinitely more fascinating than traditional heroes, who always strive to do the right thing, no matter what the circumstances. Yes, but that's not Katniss's reasoning at all. She just did it for revenge. Joel did it for love.
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