I agree. I think in my original review I stated that I thought the moments bookending the battle were fantastic, it was just the action that disappointed me. A lot of fans are assuming Sansa's arc lets her be a great strategist and the Queen of the North, and that very well may happen, but it will come at a great price. I think she's more Littlefinger than Jon. Jon's got good morals, but that is what made him such a bad leader, and the 'fail and fail again' thing recently underlined points to that. GRRM himself has said you can't be a good person and retain power. You've got to be a Tywin Lannister. Sansa had a lot of tension with Jon and Davos this season, who are largely seen as being the most morally-focused characters of the story. I think Sansa's time with Cersei, Littlefinger, and Ramsay may have rubbed off on her. If she's not manipulating Jon with her 180 about Rickon, it's inconsistent writing.
When you didn't love the Battle of the Bastards:
I think she has completely lost her identity as a Stark now. My memory when it comes to the show sucks but I cannot recall a Stark ever taking pleasure in cruelty. Ned - never. Catelyn - never. Rickon and Bran - no. Robb enjoyed seeing Greywind approach Jaime and scare him but he never laughed about it or let Greywind hurt him. Arya was laughing during PW play and probably would laugh actually seeing it go down but I think her being a good person, the shock of seeing this along with Cersei's wailing would not allow her to laugh. Also there is no way in hell anyone would back her now - she is the one who withold information. Jon actually rode in front of a massive army to rescue Rickon, who in the eyes of those who think Bran is dead, is the rightful heir of Winterfell
Arya loves killing people who deserve it. LOVES it.
I think she has completely lost her identity as a Stark now. My memory when it comes to the show sucks but I cannot recall a Stark ever taking pleasure in cruelty. Ned - never. Catelyn - never. Rickon and Bran - no. Robb enjoyed seeing Greywind approach Jaime and scare him but he never laughed about it or let Greywind hurt him. Arya was laughing during PW play and probably would laugh actually seeing it go down but I think her being a good person, the shock of seeing this along with Cersei's wailing would not allow her to laugh. Also there is no way in hell anyone would back her now - she is the one who withold information. Jon actually rode in front of a massive army to rescue Rickon, who in the eyes of those who think Bran is dead, is the rightful heir of Winterfell
Arya loves killing people who deserve it. LOVES it.
You're not supposed to feel for Ramsay, but for the people under his and Jon's command. The scene with the wildlings trying to rout and causing a massive stampede shows the horrible truth of battle, with no glory to be seen, just pure desperation.
I've never seen anybody express a bit of sympathy for Ramsay's men. The only supporting character in the Bolton story that's been fleshed out is Miranda, and she's another psychopath with zero redeeming qualities. We obviously feel bad for Walda, but in terms of the battle, the viewer doesn't really feel conflicted. It's a very straight-forward setup, root for the Starks, cheer when Ramsay dies.
I think there was a wasted opportunity to not make a character like the Smalljon more likable. It would have added a lot of emotional complexity to the battle if the Bolton side had a named character, somebody fleshed out, to root for. And when was the last time we saw Ramsay, anyway? Episode 4, when he kills Osha? The thing I liked about Stannis vs. Roose last year was all of the back-and-forth scenes of both sides strategizing, poring over maps, discussing the strengths and weaknesses of each commander, counting their troops, reevaluating their resources, the buildup throughout the season was great. This year we just got the Starks trying to recruit help, Ramsay was sorely missing from the second half of the season.
I can assure you that the giant pile of dead bodies that got used as a wall to crush other men against is something that happened more than once in human history. You and I probably had a lot of ancestors die that way. How do I know? I read a fuckton of history, including accounts of wars and battles.
Game of Thrones isn't alone in showing the cost of war, but it's the only fantasy series I can think of that ever showed the human cost of war. I give it high praise for that. I also liked that the characters all behaved in character. Their actions on the battle field were an extension of their personalities. And it was really great to see the Bolton legacy at work. Roose wanted to put that military skill to use with Robb, but Robb didn't listen to him because he didn't like his cold methods.
Edit: By the way, you're allowed not to like it. I find it baffling, but no one hates you!
Okay, but how does that help me understand how the bodies piled up so high in the context of the battle from Sunday night? The show certainly didn't explain it. There was suddenly a huge stack of corpses. I don't think I should need a familiarity with history to accept one of the more over-the-top visuals from the episode. From my lamen's perspective, that sight instantly stuck out to me as seeming unlikely, and it wouldn't have taken long for the show to establish how such a thing happened.
Every day I spend 1-2 hours talking to my boss about GoT. Interestingly, he didn't like the episode either. He's a huge history buff, he falls asleep to history docs on youtube and netflix every night. After we talk about GoT, he likes to tell me stories about great empires and battles from history. How they might have influenced GoT, like the War of the Roses and the Black Dinner. He hated the body pile scene as well. He mentioned something similar happening to Zulu warriors, but that's because they were trying to climb over barricades of mealbags that allowed them to fall onto corpses from a higher height.
The show features a lot of fantastical elements, but we suspend disbelief because the world of Westeros is grounded in reality. If Jon were to fly through the air like a Wuxia warrior, over the walls of Winterfell and chop off Ramsay's head, the audience would rightfully expect some type of explanation for Jon breaking the laws of gravity. The thing is that they didn't put any effort into that here, instead of them telling a story of a battle unfolding, it felt more like a collection of cool moments strung together with little cohesion.
Once again, I don't consider 6 to be a negative rating. For the most part, I liked the episode, I just didn't love it.
I didn't see it as a good guys vs. bad guys battle. It's true that Ramsay is completely irredeemable and a monster, but the interesting thing is how Ramsay's evil corrupts Jon and Sansa to a certain degree. As has been said, there was no glory in this battle. Jon made a deeply emotional and (understandably or not) selfish decision that caused hundreds of deaths. Then he was reduced to a raging lunatic gasping for air. Jon lost yet AGAIN, for like the 10th time in the series - just as Alliser Thorne foretold. Nothing of what he did saved the day this episode. Then you have Sansa, who lingers a bit too intently at the sadism of Ramsay's death for it to not have an effect on her. You also have Davos, who is about to lose it with the Shireen situation.
The beauty of the episode is that when the Stark banners return to Winterfell, it feels more ominous than anything else. The "good guys" did not win heroically or because of an inherent goodness in their mission.
I like your points about Jon, but this is definitely the feel-good episode of the year, even if they are doing it in the GoT way. People across the net are cheering at Ramsay's death, I'm sure some of the posters here jumped off of their couch in excitement at several points during the episode. There hasn't been a more satisfying episode for the audience since 4x02. It's like this was a big reward for the viewers who stuck it out through all of the nihilism of the past two seasons. I loved the scenes with Davos and Sansa that you mention. After talking about the episode with you guys, I agree that they were trying to go for a more somber battle scene, probably because they understood how simplistic the Stark vs. Bolton conflict could be reduced to in an otherwise more challenging show. The problem is the video gamey moments that seem to scream 'look how cool this is!' The over-the-shoulder shot, the pile of corpses, the CGI arrow flying through the air is something we'd see Legolas do, not in GoT. These moments were so flashy they undermined the darker elements of the battle, for me. My boss put it in an interesting way that he thought this week's battle was less GoT, and more Peter Jackson.
I don't think you need to know history to understand the pile of bodies, but you questioned whether that ever could happen, so I'm telling you that yes, it can, and yes, it has. The piles were started by the collision of the cavalry charges. All those dead horses and men had to go somewhere. As more men charged into the front lines and fell, they began to pile up, and then men started charging over the bodies. Eventually, the Bolton army used the shields to back the remaining men against the wall of bodies and squeezed them into an even bigger corpse pile.
It kind of seems like you're skeptical that viewers should ever get to be happy about an outcome in Game of Thrones. I, for one, am hoping that the good guys win this thing in the end, so I'm expecting a few more hard won wins. They have to make some progress toward that at some point, and there isn't that much time left to wrap this thing up. War is horrible and horrific; it also plugs into the same human drives that make us fuck and scream, which is why people got so incredibly pumped.
As for Sansa, I think she is becoming a Machiavellian player. And like you said, better a darth Sansa than a dead Ned.
That she felt good is understandable I cannot watch the vid at work but I'll take your word for it. Still, with Arya she was never as innocent as Sansa. They were polar opposites actually. I would be fine with Sansa applying some form of he who passes the sentence, should swing the sword thing but that smirk in the end felt excessive, childish and depressing at the same time to me
That she felt good is understandable I cannot watch the vid at work but I'll take your word for it. Still, with Arya she was never as innocent as Sansa. They were polar opposites actually. I would be fine with Sansa applying some form of he who passes the sentence, should swing the sword thing but that smirk in the end felt excessive, childish and depressing at the same time to me
This is absolutely true. And I can see why it disappoints you. Ramsay said that part of him is inside her now. That could mean she's pregnant, but it probably just means that he has tainted her with his cruelty. It's a sad, disappointing thing to happen to our girl, but I think it's happened. I'm most disappointed that Sansa has been hiding shit from Jon, but as I've said before, I think she is suffering from trauma and allowing it to color even those relationships she should be able to embrace without question.
That she felt good is understandable I cannot watch the vid at work but I'll take your word for it. Still, with Arya she was never as innocent as Sansa. They were polar opposites actually. I would be fine with Sansa applying some form of he who passes the sentence, should swing the sword thing but that smirk in the end felt excessive, childish and depressing at the same time to me
This is absolutely true. And I can see why it disappoints you. Ramsay said that part of him is inside her now. That could mean she're pregnant, but it probably just means that he has tainted her with his cruelty. It's a sad, disappointing thing to happen to our girl, but I think it's happened. I'm most disappointed that Sansa has been hiding shit from Jon, but as I've said before, I think she is suffering from trauma and allowing it to color even those relationships she should be able to embrace without question.
The most upsetting thing about her is her idea that she knows of war or strategy and tries to lecture people about it and thinks herself better than Jon and Davos, whom Turner considers misogynistic. I can like a psychopath but I cannot like someone who thinks they know shit when they really don't
This is absolutely true. And I can see why it disappoints you. Ramsay said that part of him is inside her now. That could mean she're pregnant, but it probably just means that he has tainted her with his cruelty. It's a sad, disappointing thing to happen to our girl, but I think it's happened. I'm most disappointed that Sansa has been hiding shit from Jon, but as I've said before, I think she is suffering from trauma and allowing it to color even those relationships she should be able to embrace without question.
The most upsetting thing about her is her idea that she knows of war or strategy and tries to lecture people about it and thinks herself better than Jon and Davos, whom Turner considers misogynistic. I can like a psychopath but I cannot like someone who thinks they know shit when they really don't
I thought Sansa was right to be annoyed that no one asked her about Ramsay's personality or other inside-Winterfell intel. On the other hand, the way she approached Jon was extremely abrasive and unpleasant, and it hasn't been established in the show that women should remain quiet during war councils (as it was in the books), so it didn't make sense to me that she didn't just speak up. I will note, though, that I was surprised watching reaction videos that most people seemed to be on her side, and were like "Don't be stupid, Jon! Listen to Sansa!" Everything she warned him about did end up coming to pass.
That's true. Although I find it funny how Jon and Sansa were really my least favorites in the beginning of the series and now it's the exact opposite. So if they turn on each other, RIP Al. Nah, not really, there's still Davos, my third favorite character.
Soon all my favourites will be dead...
Welcome to the club. All of mine have been long dead. Davos, Lyanna Mormont...you are my only hope.
I wanted to touch on something Admin said about Sansa...people missing that her ending moment with Ramsey really was not a feel good moment for the character. Just about everyone I talked to about the episode said they were glad that Ramsey was dead but at the same time it rang hollow to them because they felt like Sansa should be "better" than that. That her allowing Ramsey's dogs to eat him and taking pleasure out of it really put her at his level and who would want to be at Ramsey's level?
I could say we could chalk Sansa and Jon's dealings with Ramsey as their way of taking out their frustrations (to put it mildly) on the folks who have betrayed and murdered their family on him...and for what he did to Sansa and Rickon too. But at the same time, they missed a huge opportunity to send a message to the rest of the chicken shit North by not beheading Ramsey the way Ned would and putting his head on a spike in front of Winterfell and making a bonfire of the Bolton banners and shields. Honestly, next episode, Jon should be beheading Ramsey's Karstark buddy. And Glover.
I am liking the idea of Jon versus Sansa. This would be the opposite of the united front Yara and Theon are presenting. Theon gives up his birthright because he knows Yara is better for the job, even though she is a woman and it goes against Iron Island tradition. Where as, now with Rickon dead, Bran not around---technically Sansa SHOULD be the one ruling Winterfell and if Jon is selected by popular vote because of the battle and he's a man...there is fertile ground for resentment especially since it was Sansa who was the driving force behind the idea that they needed to take Winterfell back.
Back to the rating...DaveyJoe, I don't think 6 is a bad rating...nor do I think 8 is a bad rating (which is what I rated the episode). I agree with you, that it was more Peter Jackson than GoT. It was an audience pleaser, for sure, as evidenced by the tens everywhere on the net. But I felt like The Door, Hardholme, Rains of Castamere were all around better episodes.
The most upsetting thing about her is her idea that she knows of war or strategy and tries to lecture people about it and thinks herself better than Jon and Davos, whom Turner considers misogynistic. I can like a psychopath but I cannot like someone who thinks they know shit when they really don't
I thought Sansa was right to be annoyed that no one asked her about Ramsay's personality or other inside-Winterfell intel. On the other hand, the way she approached Jon was extremely abrasive and unpleasant, and it hasn't been established in the show that women should remain quiet during war councils (as it was in the books), so it didn't make sense to me that she didn't just speak up. I will note, though, that I was surprised watching reaction videos that most people seemed to be on her side, and were like "Don't be stupid, Jon! Listen to Sansa!" Everything she warned him about did end up coming to pass.
It did. But if she told him about KotV and they waited, even with Jon's emotional reaction Ramsay's game wouldn't matter - the battle would be won with such overwhelming reinforcements.
But I already said it yesterday and now I'm running in circles as if I stared at Davey's avatar too long
That's true. Although I find it funny how Jon and Sansa were really my least favorites in the beginning of the series and now it's the exact opposite. So if they turn on each other, RIP Al. Nah, not really, there's still Davos, my third favorite character.
Soon all my favourites will be dead...
So long as Ser Davos lives, this fandom is not over for me...
“But nothing’s ever perfect, haven’t you realized that yet? Earth turns on a tilted axis, just doing the best it can.”
I thought Sansa was right to be annoyed that no one asked her about Ramsay's personality or other inside-Winterfell intel. On the other hand, the way she approached Jon was extremely abrasive and unpleasant, and it hasn't been established in the show that women should remain quiet during war councils (as it was in the books), so it didn't make sense to me that she didn't just speak up. I will note, though, that I was surprised watching reaction videos that most people seemed to be on her side, and were like "Don't be stupid, Jon! Listen to Sansa!" Everything she warned him about did end up coming to pass.
It did. But if she told him about KotV and they waited, even with Jon's emotional reaction Ramsay's game wouldn't matter - the battle would be won with such overwhelming reinforcements.
But I already said it yesterday and now I'm running in circles as if I stared at Davey's avatar too long
No worries. I think we understand each other's points of view, and we're not in complete disagreement anyway.
kingeomer , I was very concerned about Sansa enjoying watching Ramsay get ripped to shreds, just as I was very concerned about Arya enjoying killing Polliver. But I was also very happy for them at the end of their revenge episodes. For me it's complex, happiness seeing my girls take power, sadness at seeing how they had to do so, worry for what it means for their futures, hope for the little girls still inside them.
So long as Ser Davos lives, this fandom is not over for me...
I believe Davos will see the end. He's one of the few I feel very strongly will survive.
And I probably just merced him myself by saying that.
I remember a line in the second book, where it talks about his house been small, and all the other houses supporting Stannis snubbing their noses at him. I remember reading that and thinking that he must survive. And now most of those houses and lords are dead...
Theres still hope for house Seaworth!
“But nothing’s ever perfect, haven’t you realized that yet? Earth turns on a tilted axis, just doing the best it can.”
It did. But if she told him about KotV and they waited, even with Jon's emotional reaction Ramsay's game wouldn't matter - the battle would be won with such overwhelming reinforcements.
But I already said it yesterday and now I'm running in circles as if I stared at Davey's avatar too long
No worries. I think we understand each other's points of view, and we're not in complete disagreement anyway.
kingeomer , I was very concerned about Sansa enjoying watching Ramsay get ripped to shreds, just as I was very concerned about Arya enjoying killing Polliver. But I was also very happy for them at the end of their revenge episodes. For me it's complex, happiness seeing my girls take power, sadness at seeing how they had to do so, worry for what it means for their futures, hope for the little girls still inside them.
You hit the nail on the head here. It's a hollow satisfaction. We want to see them triumph over their enemies but it comes with the realization that there is a cost to the triumph.
I could say we could chalk Sansa and Jon's dealings with Ramsey as their way of taking out their frustrations (to put it mildly) on the folks who have betrayed and murdered their family on him...and for what he did to Sansa and Rickon too. But at the same time, they missed a huge opportunity to send a message to the rest of the chicken shit North by not beheading Ramsey the way Ned would and putting his head on a spike in front of Winterfell and making a bonfire of the Bolton banners and shields. Honestly, next episode, Jon should be beheading Ramsey's Karstark buddy. And Glover.
I am liking the idea of Jon versus Sansa. This would be the opposite of the united front Yara and Theon are presenting. Theon gives up his birthright because he knows Yara is better for the job, even though she is a woman and it goes against Iron Island tradition. Where as, now with Rickon dead, Bran not around---technically Sansa SHOULD be the one ruling Winterfell and if Jon is selected by popular vote because of the battle and he's a man...there is fertile ground for resentment especially since it was Sansa who was the driving force behind the idea that they needed to take Winterfell back.
Back to the rating...DaveyJoe , I don't think 6 is a bad rating...nor do I think 8 is a bad rating (which is what I rated the episode). I agree with you, that it was more Peter Jackson than GoT. It was an audience pleaser, for sure, as evidenced by the tens everywhere on the net. But I felt like The Door, Hardholme, Rains of Castamere were all around better episodes.
That's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I was so caught up with Ramsay finally getting what he deserves I didn't consider the method. It's kinda symbolic of Sansa (and Jon) almost moving away from the Stark-ier way of doing things. Jon is more in tune with his savage, wildling side, whereas Sansa is more influenced by LF. They've both forgotten the ways of their father which is quite depressing actually.
No worries. I think we understand each other's points of view, and we're not in complete disagreement anyway.
kingeomer , I was very concerned about Sansa enjoying watching Ramsay get ripped to shreds, just as I was very concerned about Arya enjoying killing Polliver. But I was also very happy for them at the end of their revenge episodes. For me it's complex, happiness seeing my girls take power, sadness at seeing how they had to do so, worry for what it means for their futures, hope for the little girls still inside them.
You hit the nail on the head here. It's a hollow satisfaction. We want to see them triumph over their enemies but it comes with the realization that there is a cost to the triumph.
I wouldn't say hollow, just because I feel really really satisfied.
It's more like my satisfaction has a shadow, and I worry I'll have to pay for it. And really, that is in keeping with Game of Thrones. We never get anything good without having to pay for it.
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Rate 6x09Jun 23, 2016 12:51:35 GMTvia mobileNezzer likes this
I could say we could chalk Sansa and Jon's dealings with Ramsey as their way of taking out their frustrations (to put it mildly) on the folks who have betrayed and murdered their family on him...and for what he did to Sansa and Rickon too. But at the same time, they missed a huge opportunity to send a message to the rest of the chicken shit North by not beheading Ramsey the way Ned would and putting his head on a spike in front of Winterfell and making a bonfire of the Bolton banners and shields. Honestly, next episode, Jon should be beheading Ramsey's Karstark buddy. And Glover.
I am liking the idea of Jon versus Sansa. This would be the opposite of the united front Yara and Theon are presenting. Theon gives up his birthright because he knows Yara is better for the job, even though she is a woman and it goes against Iron Island tradition. Where as, now with Rickon dead, Bran not around---technically Sansa SHOULD be the one ruling Winterfell and if Jon is selected by popular vote because of the battle and he's a man...there is fertile ground for resentment especially since it was Sansa who was the driving force behind the idea that they needed to take Winterfell back.
Back to the rating...DaveyJoe , I don't think 6 is a bad rating...nor do I think 8 is a bad rating (which is what I rated the episode). I agree with you, that it was more Peter Jackson than GoT. It was an audience pleaser, for sure, as evidenced by the tens everywhere on the net. But I felt like The Door, Hardholme, Rains of Castamere were all around better episodes.
That's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I was so caught up with Ramsay finally getting what he deserves I didn't consider the method. It's kinda symbolic of Sansa (and Jon) almost moving away from the Stark-ier way of doing things. Jon is more in tune with his savage, wildling side, whereas Sansa is more influenced by LF. They've both forgotten the ways of their father which is quite depressing actually.
Ned's ways almost got House Stark killed. It's time they return to the old ways.
That's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I was so caught up with Ramsay finally getting what he deserves I didn't consider the method. It's kinda symbolic of Sansa (and Jon) almost moving away from the Stark-ier way of doing things. Jon is more in tune with his savage, wildling side, whereas Sansa is more influenced by LF. They've both forgotten the ways of their father which is quite depressing actually.
Ned's ways almost got House Stark killed. It's time they return to the old ways.
Well I mainly meant "the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword" rather than "tell your enemy exactly what you're going to do so she can conspire against you".
I've never seen anybody express a bit of sympathy for Ramsay's men. The only supporting character in the Bolton story that's been fleshed out is Miranda, and she's another psychopath with zero redeeming qualities. We obviously feel bad for Walda, but in terms of the battle, the viewer doesn't really feel conflicted. It's a very straight-forward setup, root for the Starks, cheer when Ramsay dies.
I think there was a wasted opportunity to not make a character like the Smalljon more likable. It would have added a lot of emotional complexity to the battle if the Bolton side had a named character, somebody fleshed out, to root for. And when was the last time we saw Ramsay, anyway? Episode 4, when he kills Osha? The thing I liked about Stannis vs. Roose last year was all of the back-and-forth scenes of both sides strategizing, poring over maps, discussing the strengths and weaknesses of each commander, counting their troops, reevaluating their resources, the buildup throughout the season was great. This year we just got the Starks trying to recruit help, Ramsay was sorely missing from the second half of the season.
Okay, but how does that help me understand how the bodies piled up so high in the context of the battle from Sunday night? The show certainly didn't explain it. There was suddenly a huge stack of corpses. I don't think I should need a familiarity with history to accept one of the more over-the-top visuals from the episode. From my lamen's perspective, that sight instantly stuck out to me as seeming unlikely, and it wouldn't have taken long for the show to establish how such a thing happened.
Every day I spend 1-2 hours talking to my boss about GoT. Interestingly, he didn't like the episode either. He's a huge history buff, he falls asleep to history docs on youtube and netflix every night. After we talk about GoT, he likes to tell me stories about great empires and battles from history. How they might have influenced GoT, like the War of the Roses and the Black Dinner. He hated the body pile scene as well. He mentioned something similar happening to Zulu warriors, but that's because they were trying to climb over barricades of mealbags that allowed them to fall onto corpses from a higher height.
The show features a lot of fantastical elements, but we suspend disbelief because the world of Westeros is grounded in reality. If Jon were to fly through the air like a Wuxia warrior, over the walls of Winterfell and chop off Ramsay's head, the audience would rightfully expect some type of explanation for Jon breaking the laws of gravity. The thing is that they didn't put any effort into that here, instead of them telling a story of a battle unfolding, it felt more like a collection of cool moments strung together with little cohesion.
Once again, I don't consider 6 to be a negative rating. For the most part, I liked the episode, I just didn't love it.
But pincer is the funniest moment from any of the big episodes.
I like your points about Jon, but this is definitely the feel-good episode of the year, even if they are doing it in the GoT way. People across the net are cheering at Ramsay's death, I'm sure some of the posters here jumped off of their couch in excitement at several points during the episode. There hasn't been a more satisfying episode for the audience since 4x02. It's like this was a big reward for the viewers who stuck it out through all of the nihilism of the past two seasons. I loved the scenes with Davos and Sansa that you mention. After talking about the episode with you guys, I agree that they were trying to go for a more somber battle scene, probably because they understood how simplistic the Stark vs. Bolton conflict could be reduced to in an otherwise more challenging show. The problem is the video gamey moments that seem to scream 'look how cool this is!' The over-the-shoulder shot, the pile of corpses, the CGI arrow flying through the air is something we'd see Legolas do, not in GoT. These moments were so flashy they undermined the darker elements of the battle, for me. My boss put it in an interesting way that he thought this week's battle was less GoT, and more Peter Jackson.
I don't think you need to know history to understand the pile of bodies, but you questioned whether that ever could happen, so I'm telling you that yes, it can, and yes, it has. The piles were started by the collision of the cavalry charges. All those dead horses and men had to go somewhere. As more men charged into the front lines and fell, they began to pile up, and then men started charging over the bodies. Eventually, the Bolton army used the shields to back the remaining men against the wall of bodies and squeezed them into an even bigger corpse pile.
It kind of seems like you're skeptical that viewers should ever get to be happy about an outcome in Game of Thrones. I, for one, am hoping that the good guys win this thing in the end, so I'm expecting a few more hard won wins. They have to make some progress toward that at some point, and there isn't that much time left to wrap this thing up. War is horrible and horrific; it also plugs into the same human drives that make us fuck and scream, which is why people got so incredibly pumped.
As for Sansa, I think she is becoming a Machiavellian player. And like you said, better a darth Sansa than a dead Ned.
It's not necessarily that I don't think there would be piles of bodies in a battle, but I didn't understand how they could stack so high without an external physical force causing that, and the show didn't show me what it was. It was an over-the-top visual. Huge stacks of bodies just started appearing during a point where I was all ready confused by what was happening in the battle. As a viewer, all I know is what is happening in the context of the episode, and in 10 seconds they could have shown Bolton archers falling from the battlements onto growing corpse piles, or something! Anything! I'm not going to be invested in Jon suffocating under a pile of bodies if it feels less like a natural extension of the battle's progression, and more like a calculated plot point by the writers. It goes back to my sense that there was a lack of cohesion in this battle, not just from a narrative standpoint, but in tone, as well.
It's not that I think every outcome should be bad, just look at how triumphant Arya's moment with Jaqen was in episode 8. A girl has no name and an audience needs a win. But this was the centerpiece of the season, and it lacked the complexity that previous year's big episodes have had. Ramsay's lack of presence in the final half of season 6 made him feel more like a Big Boss character, just waiting around in the castle for Player 1 to show up and defeat him. Compare that to Stannis, who was an integral character that we followed all throughout season 2. The audience was kind of rooting for him to kill Joffrey, but also rooting for Tyrion to save the day.
The Battle of the Bastards felt very confused. You've got these gritty moments like Jon being suffocated, his face caked in blood and mud. Then you've got a cheesy CGI shot following a volley of arrows, a cool tracking shot over Jon's shoulder. It's like the production team couldn't decide if they wanted to match the horror of Hardhome, or the epic excitement of Blackwater and WoTW, so instead of choosing a singular vision, they decided to just mash all these ideas together and hope for the best. There was a serious mismatch in tone from one moment to the next. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Sapochnik was pushing for the nitty gritty elements, while D&D wanted more cool moments, or vice versa.
but no one hates you! 
Nah, not really, there's still Davos, my third favorite character.
All of mine have been long dead. Davos, Lyanna Mormont...you are my only hope.
