mandzipop
Grumpkin
Still in recovery from a naked Jon Snow
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Post by mandzipop on May 20, 2016 14:58:19 GMT
That is a very interesting AMA. There were 2 questions he was a little vague on. Whether it was Shaggydog and that he only assumes Sansa knows about Jon. You'd think he'd know for certain about that.
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 20, 2016 15:26:30 GMT
A lovely article on Natalia Tena's Osha: watchersonthewall.com/curtain-call-natalia-tena/The best physical performance of the whole show imo. Half-animal, half-human. As one of the comments says, she makes the other wildlings look like kneelers. Forever the one true wildling Guess I'll have to look into her band now.... True dat Are you aware of this? Thanks for that! That was great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 15:40:09 GMT
i can't really argue with your personal interpretation of those scenes, i can't say i wholeheartedly agree with them though. As you said HOTU was about learning to overcome temptation, to overcome selfish desires in order to get what she wants- the iron throne. But to me, her time in the dothraki sea was truly character defining, as she realises who she is and needs to do. Daznak's pit is merely a plot device to get her there, although it is also symbolic of a choice she is making (which she only realises later in the dothraki sea). If i could choose one line "Dragons plant no seeds" is a summary what her ADWD arc is about. Please elaborate how Dany's time in the Dothraki sea is more character defining than the moment she mounts Drogon and flies away from Meereen. I see it as a (possibly redundant) affirmation of the symbolic moment when she embraces her inner dragon. Her vision quest didn't surprise the reader with her decision, it underscored what we saw in Daznak's pit. The scene is fine, but I think you're kind of undermining what George Martin made the climax of Dany's story with this argument. It's clearly the climactic moment of Dany's story in ADWD, but you're dismissing it as a plot device? I think that @igrewupinkl will agree with me that her time in the Dothraki Sea is so much more defining that her ride with Drogon because we see her go from the stagnation of where she was throughout most of ADWD to the resolve we see from her at the end of ADWD Her mounting Drogon was important in that it was her first time riding a dragon, the birth if you will, of her as a dragonrider. But her choosing to ride that dragon was more about escaping her current circumstances rather than addressing them ore resolving them which is where we are going to be by the end of her Vision Quest. When Dany starts her Vision Quest in the Dothraki sea she is still intent in returning to Meereen, nothing in her mentality about her current circumstances has change, she wants to return to Meereen to her new husband and her people there. However, throughout her VQ she gets confronted by Viserys, and Jorah and even Qarth. She is force to acknowledge her failure and why she failed, and I think this is the most important part of her entire ADWD arc, her acknowledgement to herself that she forgot who she was and she was fighting for. Whether you agree or disagree with her epiphany doesn't matter, it's the fact that she had it. We aren't going to get this in show, and that's fine with me, even though I was really looking forward to it. But I think to dismiss the importance of her VQ is folly. It's not just about embracing the dragon, it's about understanding why she did it, and that's why her VQ in the Dothraki sea is so important.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 18:20:42 GMT
When Dany starts her Vision Quest in the Dothraki sea she is still intent in returning to Meereen, nothing in her mentality about her current circumstances has change, she wants to return to Meereen to her new husband and her people there. However, throughout her VQ she gets confronted by Viserys, and Jorah and even Qarth. She is force to acknowledge her failure and why she failed, and I think this is the most important part of her entire ADWD arc, her acknowledgement to herself that she forgot who she was and she was fighting for. Whether you agree or disagree with her epiphany doesn't matter, it's the fact that she had it. We aren't going to get this in show, and that's fine with me, even though I was really looking forward to it. But I think to dismiss the importance of her VQ is folly. It's not just about embracing the dragon, it's about understanding why she did it, and that's why her VQ in the Dothraki sea is so important. I am really ok with how much of the Dothraki sea parts they cut away. There's no one for her to interact with other than Drogon and it wouldn't have worked as well on screen as it did in the book since we can't hear Dany's internal dialogue or thoughts. Doing another vision type thing for her would have felt too 'magical' in a show where they've toned that down and reserved it only for the biggest reveals and character moments such as Bran's visions. Dany's visions in House of the Undying were more relevant to their mysticism so it worked better. But I wanted to say - the part I highlighted in your response is definitely an important aspect of Daenerys that seems to be missing so far. The entire unsullied audience seems to view her progression as one continuous badass moment after another. And as much as I love Daenerys I think this does her character a little disservice. She has admitted in a couple of scenes her doubts and failures in Meereen but there was no real resolution to that failure acceptance since she has flown away. Her time with the Dothraki is not showing enough negative to justify the positive nor does it display the "I must go backwards to go forwards" theme. But again, she has no one to do this sort of dialogue with other than Jorah and Daario so unless we get some kind of talk about that - then most of her failure has been forgotten from past seasons. I guess Tyrion and crew in Meereen are the ones to show the failure still happening but most viewers seem bored with it at this point. The best we can hope for is a very quick resolution to the problem and even quicker decision to leave. There's really no more time left to wallow in regret or for Daenerys to reflect on her mistakes as a ruler after just taking an army of 100,000 Dothraki. So in summary... I think some sort of re-evaluation in herself between the time she flew off on Drogon and the time she burned down the temple in Vaes Dothrak would have nicely explained her transition even if they didn't do the visions and realization she has in the books. We're just not going to get that.
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GreenChili
Grumpkin
If I fall, don't bring me back.
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Post by GreenChili on May 20, 2016 18:50:20 GMT
GreenChili I appreciate the reply but I think you should edit your post. We're not allowed to talk about the leaks anywhere else but the leaks post. Sorry for forgetting the spoiler tags - I changed that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 19:13:38 GMT
GreenChili I appreciate the reply but I think you should edit your post. We're not allowed to talk about the leaks anywhere else but the leaks post. Sorry for forgetting the spoiler tags - I changed that! Thank you, Belle and GreenChili for the catch. I didn't get spoiled. Yay!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 21:29:36 GMT
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Post by boojam on May 20, 2016 22:13:58 GMT
This may have been discussed , this episode Brienne says she and Davos met in S2, without watching it, I don't remember that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:19:12 GMT
This may have been discussed , this episode Brienne says she and Davos met in S2, without watching it, I don't remember that. Episode 204. They didn't actually meet per se but they were both present (along with Cat) when Renly and Stannis discussed terms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:19:46 GMT
This may have been discussed , this episode Brienne says she and Davos met in S2, without watching it, I don't remember that. He was with Stannis, and she was with Renly when they met to talk terms and Renly asked Stannis if he was a ham. Edit: Damn it! Ninja'd by Konrad.
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Post by Nezzer on May 20, 2016 22:21:02 GMT
This may have been discussed , this episode Brienne says she and Davos met in S2, without watching it, I don't remember that. Brienne is hiding under the most impractical helm ever, right behind Renly. Edit: double ninja'd, at least my post was more complete
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Post by boojam on May 20, 2016 22:36:26 GMT
Minutiae In the credit crawl Khal Moro's wife (Fola Evans-Akingbola) is listed so I guess she was in the big crowd scene , don't see her earlier. Had a big speaking part in E1.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:38:32 GMT
Minutiae In the credit crawl Khal Moro's wife (Fola Evans-Akingbola) is listed so I guess she was in the big crowd scene , don't see her earlier. Had a big speaking part in E1. She was standing behind the High Priestess and the Young Widow as they watched the temple burn. IIRC she actually bowed before the High Priestess, which is ironic because she's a widow now herself with Moro barbecued.
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Post by boojam on May 20, 2016 22:52:13 GMT
Minutiae In the credit crawl Khal Moro's wife (Fola Evans-Akingbola) is listed so I guess she was in the big crowd scene , don't see her earlier. Had a big speaking part in E1. She was standing behind the High Priestess and the Young Widow as they watched the temple burn. IIRC she actually bowed before the High Priestess, which is ironic because she's a widow now herself with Moro barbecued. Yeah , that goes by quick. Dany has created another power vacuum , thousands of years of tradition and tribal rule right down the drain. A unique circumstance but this has to lead to trouble. Another set of slavers she has to convince to become , what?, farmers? Lots of fighting left , but after that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 1:31:23 GMT
Love the screaming Khals in the flames. I can't praise these beautiful death posters enough.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on May 21, 2016 5:29:04 GMT
This may have been discussed , this episode Brienne says she and Davos met in S2, without watching it, I don't remember that. Brienne is hiding under the most impractical helm ever, right behind Renly. Edit: double ninja'd, at least my post was more complete Classic Renly, snarking on Stannis the whole scene and making his guards wear goofy helmets for his own shits and giggles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 19:27:44 GMT
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Post by Basil on May 21, 2016 20:15:27 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:23:01 GMT
I wasted probably 4 minutes to see when the video was going to end. Turns out it's a gif.
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