6x01 POST-Episode Discussion (airs 24th April)

I disagree about Arianne dying in the books. I mean maybe eventually, but she's the whole Dornish POV so I doubt Martin kills her off yet. And by the time he does, who's ruling Dorne is going to be a moot point because Dany's/WW invasion will have already started.

I think you're ascribing too much into future plot developments there. Dorne will most likely be off-screen until Varys arrives later in the season. And when he shows up, Ellaria will be in charge. That's probably why there's essentially zero footage from there that's been released as part of the season promotion.

I think people attach way too much importance to who has a POV. Arianne was a window on other characters. There is nothing essential that she does herself: The queenmaker plot was not her idea. She only carried it out because the Sand Snakes were in prison. Basically Arianne exists as a POV because she has unique access to all of Doran (as his daughter) the Sand Snakes (as their friend and cousin) Darkstar (as the one who gave him access to Myrcella).

Those are the important Dornish actors in terms of actual impact on events, not Arianne. And now that they are distributed across the South, other POVs will step in to cover their activities. Hotah is the window on Obara and possibly Darkstar now. Nym and Tyene will be in KL and will be covered by Cersei's POV.

Arianne's POV will take us up to the point where Doran dies, word of Quentyn's death reaches Dorne, and Elia completes whatever mischief GRRM included her for, but which is bound to sabotage Arianne's Aegon mission. Once that mission has failed, there is no more use for Arianne's POV.

I think Cersei is finally taking the 'fate' card on it, which is what she told Jaime. She's finally realizing the prophecy is coming true and she can't blame anyone else anymore. 

Not sure if I like that, it would be better IMO if she was on full Aerys mode.

I wonder if Obara and/or Nymeria will just stay in Kings Landing rather than go back to Dorne? I was thinking that they might fill the role that Varys left vacant at the end of book 5, which could possibly start to redeem the characters.




I liked that Tyrion and Varys went walking through the city without guards. It was bold, but Tyrion and Varys have audacious plans that can only be achieved by being bold. Also, Varys questioned the wisdom of the plan, which was clearly Tyrion's idea, but we already knew that Tyrion is semi-suicidal. Anyway their merchant disguise is probably better protection than guards, which would draw attention, which would mean they need more guards, which would make it impossible to survey the city as they wanted. Further, it really makes a point of the value that Tyrion and Varys bring to Dany. She stayed up in her pyramid and didn't attempt to understand her city. Tyrion and Varys are doing something different. And it calls back to Tyrion walking around in Kings Landing with minimal protection. I had been disappointed that the show skipped Dany trying to deal with the plague - because it showed her compassion and impetuousness and also her god-cult, but having kept her stuck in the pyramid for 2 seasons does emphasize her need for better advisors.

I agree that Elaria is going to be the leader of Dorne going forward, without the show explaining exactly how that happened. History has lots of examples where somebody kills the king in a coup and becomes the new king - power can transcend bloodlines. And even in ASOIAF, Robert's bloodline claim to the throne was tenuous - especially since Viserys and Dany survived - and Bolton isn't going to give up Winterfell even though he lost Sansa. The sand snakes are not political nor particularly bright - Elaria is the only viable Dornish candidate for power in the show. And it all makes some sense as Arienne from the books is composited into Elaria. Skipping how exactly that happened is a plot hole, but Elaria + SS scheming with extras was not going to be good show material, so skipping it is probably the least bad option.

I don't expect Dorne succession to be a big deal as I mentioned before. Completely agree with King Tommen on that one. Who could be in line for succession on the show anyway? Oberyn's daughters who are all bastards. Ellaria is also a Sand, so obviously also a noble bastard. I don't think this is going to bother show-only fans much.

So, the Sand Snakes want to avenge their father?

So they go and kill their uncle and cousin.

They felt like their uncle and cousin were the major impediments in getting revenge. And they were kind of right. If you want to go to war with the Lannisters and your ruler says no even after his own brother and sister were murdered by them, you are kind of backed into a corner, no?