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Post by Zadeth on Apr 25, 2016 12:46:00 GMT
I can't understand how Mel can be 200+ years old, but still thinks Thoros shouldn't be able to resurrect people. Do we know how long Mel spent at the Temple of R'hllor? I can't remember. I know she says she has practised for "years beyond count" in her ADWD chapter, but I can't remember if it says what she did prior to coming to Stannis' aid. She could have stayed in the Temple until she was sent to Dragonstone, glamoured up. She could just not have been exposed to things like the resurrection powers the Lord of Light has granted to Thoros and thus think the LoL just gives visions, vagina shadows and the likes? |
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Post by Admin on Apr 25, 2016 12:46:09 GMT
I can't understand how Mel can be 200+ years old, but still thinks Thoros shouldn't be able to resurrect people. Cause he is so special. And if all that it amounts to in the series is bringing back Beric - bad writing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:46:14 GMT
I can't understand how Mel can be 200+ years old, but still thinks Thoros shouldn't be able to resurrect people. I think this proves what a rare gift it is, indeed. It's even better when an ancient old hag can't do shit, but a drunk "priest" has resurrected Beric seven times. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:46:52 GMT
I can't understand how Mel can be 200+ years old, but still thinks Thoros shouldn't be able to resurrect people. We know from the books that magic, especially fire magic has been dying out little by little and this includes even when the dragons were around. We have speculated that the Doom exasperated the decrease in magic. However, now with the return of the Others and the dragons magic has once again returned to Westeros, therefore, making it possible for Thoros to perform the Kiss. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:47:27 GMT
I'm not sure if I'm more shocked about Mel or Dorne. I kind of saw Mel coming, although I thought she would save Jon first. You guys still think she's alive and will save him? Did she die and therefore forfeit her life for his? Did she just die and not have a further role to play? Mel? Did you get the impression that she died? I thought she only took off her glamour and went to bed. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 25, 2016 12:48:50 GMT
I saw several people assume she died.
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Post by Zadeth on Apr 25, 2016 12:50:47 GMT
I'm not sure if I'm more shocked about Mel or Dorne. I kind of saw Mel coming, although I thought she would save Jon first. You guys still think she's alive and will save him? Did she die and therefore forfeit her life for his? Did she just die and not have a further role to play? I don't think Mel's dead. I think she's given up. She must feel absolutely useless now - all the time, energy and power invested into Stannis, because she thought R'hllor was telling her he was AAR, was for naught. Her purpose in life is gone. I think her taking off the ruby and going to bed was symbolic of this, and as others have mentioned it represents her lack of faith. She must feel R'hllor was lying to her, or that he isn't even a real god. I think she'll find her purpose soon, perhaps through a vision in the flames. Or something left field could happen and Bran/Bloodraven could send her a dream, lol. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:52:36 GMT
I didn't think that it looked like Mel died at all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:53:10 GMT
I'm not sure if I'm more shocked about Mel or Dorne. I kind of saw Mel coming, although I thought she would save Jon first. You guys still think she's alive and will save him? Did she die and therefore forfeit her life for his? Did she just die and not have a further role to play? Mel? Did you get the impression that she died? I thought she only took off her glamour and went to bed. It's possible. I guess I've seen a lot of stories where the youth spell is the only thing keeping the ancient sorcerer alive, so when they take it off, they die, and I assumed that's what it meant when she went to bed. I guess seeing Davos encounter her as ancient will be more interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:55:34 GMT
I think that was Mel 'giving up' . It may have something to do with taking potions and she thought, nope don't need those anymore! The way she tossed the blanket over herself made me laugh actually lol i don't know why. Then i felt sorry for her. I wonder what this means for Carice though.. so Mel finds purpose again through Jon i gather? Also Septa Unella and the Waif are awesome, my heroes  LOL, brutal girl. Brutal! |
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Post by Basil on Apr 25, 2016 12:57:35 GMT
I don't think Mel died, she just took off her glamour and went to bed. Though I also think it is possible that bringing Jon back will kill her. I'm just speculating here, but maybe all the magic is corrupting her body somehow and that's why she looks ancient. I mean, we still have no idea how old she really is.
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Post by Admin on Apr 25, 2016 12:57:41 GMT
This was just something the writers threw in in this ep to at least give people 1 thing to talk about. I doubt we see mels true form again this season
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:58:16 GMT
I doubt this for several reasons: 1. We have seen the dynamic between the Sand Snakes enough by now that them ruling by committee would be a complete disaster and they know it. They are constantly in competition with each other and they like that. 2. They are ladies of action and they would probably kill anyone who suggested they should stay still, in place at Sunspear and rule. 3. In the books they all go in different directions and that is unlikely to have changed for the show given the many actors we have heard say that people are meeting who have not met before and storylines are converging. It is simply FAR more likely that Dornish characters we know go elsewhere than that anyone comes to Dorne. Dorne is NOT a primary location or centre of significant action. I think we will definitely see more of the Sand Snakes this season but they will NOT be in Dorne. Which means Dorne's leadership is an interesting open question. Oh I agree with most of that. Its just something I don't think we'll really get to see. Its more likely Ellaria is the leader, because they do seem to listen to her. Yeh but it was just a shock for them to kill Trystane. I mean, really what's the motivation for it? Cersei surely would have had him killed or imprisoned. So why did they need to be there to do it? If they were smart then they'd have others do their bidding I agree Ellaria is the leader of the Sand Snakes. But she is not the leader of Dorne. She has no claim and even her daughters are not the eldest of Oberyn's children. The Dornish IMO are unlikely to just shrug and say ok, cool, this woman bastard with no claim is now our "Princess". The question is not really who is driving the plot - clearly Ellaria is central there - but who is now the figurehead. Obviously Obara is the oldest of Oberyn's daughters so comes first in that regard, but she remains a bastard and others may have more legitimate and direct claims. In the books I suspect Darkstar may have some claim on Dornish succession. So once all of Doran's heirs are dead in the books, which I am sure will happen very soon, Darkstar may be next in line, which is why Doran considers him so dangerous. But the show has no Darkstar, at least not yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 12:59:14 GMT
This was just something the writers threw in in this ep to at least give people 1 thing to talk about. I doubt we see mels true form again this season I expect we will only see her true form again when she dies, preferably in Davos' hands. |
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Post by Zadeth on Apr 25, 2016 13:01:37 GMT
I don't think Mel died, she just took off her glamour and went to bed. Though I also think it is possible that bringing Jon back will kill her. I'm just speculating here, but maybe all the magic is corrupting her body and that's why she looks ancient. I mean, we still have no idea how old she really is. If Mel is to die, I want her to go out like Nissa Nissa; so her purpose and goal in life is completed and she can die happy and satisfied. I can just picture her face as she dies, watching AAR surface in Jon. (IF Jon is AAR). Though, as we've been told several times, "only death can pay for life". Unless she sacrifices Olly or Thorne (no Kingsblood though) she will probably sacrifice herself; unless she is still juiced up from Shireen burning. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 25, 2016 13:02:07 GMT
This was just something the writers threw in in this ep to at least give people 1 thing to talk about. I doubt we see mels true form again this season I expect we will only see her true form again when she dies, preferably in Davos' hands. Yep same here. And I bet she doesnt die this season |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 13:02:50 GMT
Oh I agree with most of that. Its just something I don't think we'll really get to see. Its more likely Ellaria is the leader, because they do seem to listen to her. Yeh but it was just a shock for them to kill Trystane. I mean, really what's the motivation for it? Cersei surely would have had him killed or imprisoned. So why did they need to be there to do it? If they were smart then they'd have others do their bidding I agree Ellaria is the leader of the Sand Snakes. But she is not the leader of Dorne. She has no claim and even her daughters are not the eldest of Oberyn's children. The Dornish IMO are unlikely to just shrug and say ok, cool, this woman bastard with no claim is now our "Princess". The question is not really who is driving the plot - clearly Ellaria is central there - but who is now the figurehead. Obviously Obara is the oldest of Oberyn's daughters so comes first in that regard, but she remains a bastard and others may have more legitimate and direct claims. In the books I suspect Darkstar may have some claim on Dornish succession. So once all of Doran's heirs are dead in the books, which I am sure will happen very soon, Darkstar may be next in line, which is why Doran considers him so dangerous. But the show has no Darkstar, at least not yet. That would be true in the books. Not so sure about Show Dorne, which is really lacking in complexity compared to book Dorne. And they don't have Arianne to turn to. I think this is the writers' way of putting a woman on the throne in Dorne. I don't like it because Arianne had a right to it, and Ellaria doesn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 13:03:33 GMT
I can't understand how Mel can be 200+ years old, but still thinks Thoros shouldn't be able to resurrect people. Cause he is so special. And if all that it amounts to in the series is bringing back Beric - bad writing. It won't be all. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 13:04:25 GMT
This was just something the writers threw in in this ep to at least give people 1 thing to talk about. I doubt we see mels true form again this season I expect we will only see her true form again when she dies, preferably in Davos' hands. This actually makes much more sense than what I was thinking. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 13:04:35 GMT
I don't think Mel died, she just took off her glamour and went to bed. Though I also think it is possible that bringing Jon back will kill her. I'm just speculating here, but maybe all the magic is corrupting her body somehow and that's why she looks ancient. I mean, we still have no idea how old she really is. There's an old (har har) theory about Mel floating around that has resurfaced with this new show twist. I've often wondered about it and if it might be true. It wouldn't explain why Melisandre was so shocked at Thoros resurrecting Beric so well but would definitely explain a few other bits of the mystery: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1b56ua/spoilers_alla_theory_on_melisandre/ The theory goes that perhaps she herself is like Beric, a resurrected / immortal being (of sorts) and will pass her undeath on to Jon Snow much as Beric passed his to Catelyn. |
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