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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2016 12:53:15 GMT
Forgive me, I find the fact they killed her mother and brother powerful enough without her being turned into traitor and a rape victimout of her own volition I don't think any of it happened of her own volition, and I don't think the show makes it seem that it did. I think she went along with it because she had no other option. She put all her eggs in the Littlefinger basket, expecting him to protect her. He made her think he'd help her get revenge on the Boltons through the marriage. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about her plot in the north isn't how Sansa behaved. I felt that was all in character. It was how Littlefinger left her there with the Boltons without making sure he knew what the deal was with Ramsay. While I believe LF doesn't truly care about Sansa more than getting ahead, I don't think he'd have wanted to see her treated the way she's been treated. She could have stayed in Vale instead of driving off with a guy who killed her aunt |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 12:55:26 GMT
I don't think any of it happened of her own volition, and I don't think the show makes it seem that it did. I think she went along with it because she had no other option. She put all her eggs in the Littlefinger basket, expecting him to protect her. He made her think he'd help her get revenge on the Boltons through the marriage. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about her plot in the north isn't how Sansa behaved. I felt that was all in character. It was how Littlefinger left her there with the Boltons without making sure he knew what the deal was with Ramsay. While I believe LF doesn't truly care about Sansa more than getting ahead, I don't think he'd have wanted to see her treated the way she's been treated. She could have stayed in Vale instead of driving off with a guy who killed her aunt You have to remember that from her point of view Littlefinger has saved her life twice, once from her aunt who was crazy and hated her. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 12:55:59 GMT
Forgive me, I find the fact they killed her mother and brother powerful enough without her being turned into traitor and a rape victimout of her own volition I don't think any of it happened of her own volition, and I don't think the show makes it seem that it did. I think she went along with it because she had no other option. She put all her eggs in the Littlefinger basket, expecting him to protect her. He made her think he'd help her get revenge on the Boltons through the marriage. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about her plot in the north isn't how Sansa behaved. I felt that was all in character. It was how Littlefinger left her there with the Boltons without making sure he knew what the deal was with Ramsay. While I believe LF doesn't truly care about Sansa more than getting ahead, I don't think he'd have wanted to see her treated the way she's been treated. I completely agree with your first paragraph.  Concerning LF... well, LF's plan was to have Sansa in Winterfell, so he could tell Cersei that the Boltons betrayed the crown. He needed Sansa there so that Cersei would give him her approval to attack whatever is left of Stannis's and Bolton's armies. In the end, he was willing to betray Sansa to Cersei in order to defeat both Stannis and the Boltons, so that he could take over WF for himself. I don't think he cares too much about Sansa or what happens to her. She's just a pawn to him.  |
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mau
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Post by mau on Apr 22, 2016 12:58:45 GMT
Do u need Walder to rape Arya to give her enough of a reason? But she was there when that happened. And Walder Frey is on her list. And she killed some Freys after that. And she was in the Riverlands for 3 seasons. Sansa never spoke about the Boltons before S5. She wasn't in the North. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2016 12:59:22 GMT
She could have stayed in Vale instead of driving off with a guy who killed her aunt You have to remember that from her point of view Littlefinger has saved her life twice, once from her aunt who was crazy and hated her. I didnt get that from the show at all  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:00:06 GMT
I don't think any of it happened of her own volition, and I don't think the show makes it seem that it did. I think she went along with it because she had no other option. She put all her eggs in the Littlefinger basket, expecting him to protect her. He made her think he'd help her get revenge on the Boltons through the marriage. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about her plot in the north isn't how Sansa behaved. I felt that was all in character. It was how Littlefinger left her there with the Boltons without making sure he knew what the deal was with Ramsay. While I believe LF doesn't truly care about Sansa more than getting ahead, I don't think he'd have wanted to see her treated the way she's been treated. I completely agree with your first paragraph. Concerning LF... well, LF's plan was to have Sansa in Winterfell, so he could tell Cersei that the Boltons betrayed the crown. He needed Sansa there so that Cersei would give him her approval to attack whatever is left of Stannis's and Bolton's armies. In the end, he was willing to betray Sansa to Cersei in order to defeat both Stannis and the Boltons, so that he could take over WF for himself. I don't think he cares too much about Sansa or what happens to her. She's just a pawn to him. I go back and forth on this one. Clearly he is diabolical and bitter and his heart is too hard for him to actually love Sansa. But it's hard for me to imagine that his end game doesn't have Sansa as his wife. I think he has as much affection for her as a ruthless asshole can have, which unfortunately isn't that much. He clearly does use her to his advantage. |
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mau
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Post by mau on Apr 22, 2016 13:00:22 GMT
I still think they should've done what the did with ASOS in S3 and S4 and split the material, but this one was difficult to put to screen And what would be the end of S5 then? |
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Post by day dreamer on Apr 22, 2016 13:00:32 GMT
She could have stayed in Vale instead of driving off with a guy who killed her aunt You have to remember that from her point of view Littlefinger has saved her life twice, once from her aunt who was crazy and hated her. This is what I told myself to during my mental gymnastics of trying to find a way not to hate this story. But how on Earth could she trust him to marry her to a BOLTON of all people?  She couldn't possibly think it would be similiar to Tyrion not being a total creep. |
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Apr 22, 2016 13:00:34 GMT
I don't think any of it happened of her own volition, and I don't think the show makes it seem that it did. I think she went along with it because she had no other option. She put all her eggs in the Littlefinger basket, expecting him to protect her. He made her think he'd help her get revenge on the Boltons through the marriage. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about her plot in the north isn't how Sansa behaved. I felt that was all in character. It was how Littlefinger left her there with the Boltons without making sure he knew what the deal was with Ramsay. While I believe LF doesn't truly care about Sansa more than getting ahead, I don't think he'd have wanted to see her treated the way she's been treated. She could have stayed in Vale instead of driving off with a guy who killed her aunt I agree, but I also get the vibe Sansa didn't feel too bad about her aunts death. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2016 13:01:06 GMT
Do u need Walder to rape Arya to give her enough of a reason? But she was there when that happened. And Walder Frey is on her list. And she killed some Freys after that. And she was in the Riverlands for 3 seasons. Sansa never spoke about the Boltons before S5. She wasn't in the North. So the heartbreak over losing one's mother and brother is measured by...location? Or more accurately geographical proximity to savage slaughter? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:02:55 GMT
I agree with Witchy. Sansa had no choice than to trust LF.
"Better to gamble on the man you know than the strangers you don't..."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:02:57 GMT
You have to remember that from her point of view Littlefinger has saved her life twice, once from her aunt who was crazy and hated her. This is what I told myself to during my mental gymnastics of trying to find a way not to hate this story. But how on Earth could she trust him to marry her to a BOLTON of all people? She couldn't possibly think it would be similiar to Tyrion not being a total creep. It would have made me happy to see her protest more than that little scene on the cliff. I agree it should have been harder for LF to convince her she could handle it. |
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Apr 22, 2016 13:03:18 GMT
And what would be the end of S5 then? Euron's kingsmoot, promise to take over Westeros. Deepwood Motte, Stannis rallies the northerners, The faith imprisons Cersei, Tyrion arrives in Mereen. More time to build stories + more well built conclusions + more anticipation |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:04:21 GMT
I completely agree with your first paragraph. Concerning LF... well, LF's plan was to have Sansa in Winterfell, so he could tell Cersei that the Boltons betrayed the crown. He needed Sansa there so that Cersei would give him her approval to attack whatever is left of Stannis's and Bolton's armies. In the end, he was willing to betray Sansa to Cersei in order to defeat both Stannis and the Boltons, so that he could take over WF for himself. I don't think he cares too much about Sansa or what happens to her. She's just a pawn to him. I go back and forth on this one. Clearly he is diabolical and bitter and his heart is too hard for him to actually love Sansa. But it's hard for me to imagine that his end game doesn't have Sansa as his wife. I think he has as much affection for her as a ruthless asshole can have, which unfortunately isn't that much. He clearly does use her to his advantage. You are right. It's ambiguous to say the least. But he did tell Cersei where she was... |
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mau
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Post by mau on Apr 22, 2016 13:04:46 GMT
But she was there when that happened. And Walder Frey is on her list. And she killed some Freys after that. And she was in the Riverlands for 3 seasons. Sansa never spoke about the Boltons before S5. She wasn't in the North. So the heartbreak over losing one's mother and brother is measured by...location? Or more accurately geographical proximity to savage slaughter? The point is, there is no antagonism between Sansa and the Boltons in the books. She doesn't care for them. She doesn't blame them for anything. And that was the case with the show as well, before S5. Tywin killed Cat and Robb, Jaime almost killed Bran. I don't see that anyone suggested a war between Sansa and them. Ever. Because there is no build up to that. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:07:10 GMT
This is what I told myself to during my mental gymnastics of trying to find a way not to hate this story. But how on Earth could she trust him to marry her to a BOLTON of all people? She couldn't possibly think it would be similiar to Tyrion not being a total creep. It would have made me happy to see her protest more than that little scene on the cliff. I agree it should have been harder for LF to convince her she could handle it.That's actually my main point of criticism in regards to Sansa's S5 storyline. It still makes sense, but it would have been better if it had been harder for LF to convince her. But then again, she really had no other choice. I think on a show like GoT the writers try to economize and put as much into one scene as possible. It often works. But sometimes it would be better to have 2 or even 3 scenes to achieve whatever they want to achieve. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:07:49 GMT
I go back and forth on this one. Clearly he is diabolical and bitter and his heart is too hard for him to actually love Sansa. But it's hard for me to imagine that his end game doesn't have Sansa as his wife. I think he has as much affection for her as a ruthless asshole can have, which unfortunately isn't that much. He clearly does use her to his advantage. You are right. It's ambiguous to say the least. But he did tell Cersei where she was... Yeah, but I think he's planning to take down the Lannisters. I think he's telling Cersei the Boltons have Sansa to make them go to war, and he's planning to be the man left standing when it's all over. With Sansa as his wife, and him in charge of the north, and perhaps the entire realm. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2016 13:10:33 GMT
So the heartbreak over losing one's mother and brother is measured by...location? Or more accurately geographical proximity to savage slaughter? The point is, there is no antagonism between Sansa and the Boltons in the books. She doesn't care for them. She doesn't blame them for anything. And that was the case with the show as well, before S5. Tywin killed Cat and Robb, Jaime almost killed Bran. I don't see that anyone suggested a war between Sansa and them. Ever. Because there is no build up to that. Didnt Boltons betray Robb? Helped with RW? Stab him in the heart? I think that constitutes antagonism |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:10:34 GMT
You are right. It's ambiguous to say the least. But he did tell Cersei where she was... Yeah, but I think he's planning to take down the Lannisters. I think he's telling Cersei the Boltons have Sansa to make them go to war, and he's planning to be the man left standing when it's all over. With Sansa as his wife, and him in charge of the north, and perhaps the entire realm. I know. But I think LF has been established to be gambler and I think what mattered to him was that Sansa is still alive when he comes back, not that she is well.  I need LF to bite the dust next season. |
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mau
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Post by mau on Apr 22, 2016 13:11:26 GMT
And what would be the end of S5 then? Euron's kingsmoot, promise to take over Westeros. Deepwood Motte, Stannis rallies the northerners, The faith imprisons Cersei, Tyrion arrives in Mereen. More time to build stories + more well built conclusions + more anticipation You really think that Euron's promise would be a great way to end S5? That was just a set up. It's not the culmination of the story. And he is a new character. The faith imprisons Cersei? And then you have only one big scene after that (S5E10). You would put WoS in S6E1? The whole season was building up to that point and you would just cut it and move it to the next year? Tyrion arrives in Mereen? And then what? Where you would put Daznak? In E9 of S6? You think his arrival in Meeren is a good culmination of his story? What about Jon and Dany? The Boltons. Arya. Dorne? No. I think that S5 was the best way you could do those storylines. |
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She couldn't possibly think it would be similiar to Tyrion not being a total creep.
