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Post by Admin on Jun 11, 2015 20:29:57 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. In a way, but she has actual tangible power that pays off. It's not all on faith. There are actual rewards that come from her atrocities. Which, if you're a very harsh utilitarian, makes them worthwhile.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 20:37:30 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. In a way, but she has actual tangible power that pays off. It's not all on faith. There are actual rewards that come from her atrocities. Which, if you're a very harsh utilitarian, makes them worthwhile.
But we don't know how much of that (if any) is actually the Lord of Light and how much of it is Mel's magic. And even if it is from the Lord of Light, who's to say he's benevolent? |
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 11, 2015 20:40:29 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. In a way, but she has actual tangible power that pays off. It's not all on faith. There are actual rewards that come from her atrocities. Which, if you're a very harsh utilitarian, makes them worthwhile.
This. In our world, it's easy to write off religious fanatics as just that...however, in their world, magic is real and it's much, much harder to distinguish 'miracle' from 'hoax'. I mean, just look at how many people in our world believe in deities that have all sorts of powers without ever having it proven to them? Now, think of how many MORE people would believe if it could be proven. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jun 11, 2015 20:41:22 GMT
Yeah. That layer is what they call arrogance. I know what a psychopath is and she is one, as is anyone smirking like an idiot when a child is burning to death. I know she has nice tits, but that doesn't change the fact that she is as evil as they come. You are aware how sinister that sounded, yes?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 20:42:31 GMT
In a way, but she has actual tangible power that pays off. It's not all on faith. There are actual rewards that come from her atrocities. Which, if you're a very harsh utilitarian, makes them worthwhile.
But we don't know how much of that (if any) is actually the Lord of Light and how much of it is Mel's magic. And even if it is from the Lord of Light, who's to say he's benevolent? That's true. But I'm not saying I buy her rationale, just that it's consistent and I don't hate Stannis for buying into it. And I think she's a good character. |
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Post by Admin on Jun 11, 2015 20:43:17 GMT
Yeah. That layer is what they call arrogance. I know what a psychopath is and she is one, as is anyone smirking like an idiot when a child is burning to death. I know she has nice tits, but that doesn't change the fact that she is as evil as they come. You are aware how sinister that sounded, yes? ?? As a lawyer I took various classes from criminal psychology when I was studying. But thanks for reading too much into this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 20:44:04 GMT
But we don't know how much of that (if any) is actually the Lord of Light and how much of it is Mel's magic. And even if it is from the Lord of Light, who's to say he's benevolent? That's true. But I'm not saying I buy her rationale, just that it's consistent and I don't hate Stannis for buying into it. And I think she's a good character. She's an excellent character and one of my favourites  If we lost her now I would be quite disappointed. Although she does deserve all sorts of horrible things after what she did to sweet Shireen  |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jun 11, 2015 20:45:13 GMT
You are aware how sinister that sounded, yes? ?? As a lawyer I took various classes from criminal psychology when I was studying. But thanks for reading too much into this. Right. Message recieved. Bad joke.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 20:51:44 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm with team Ozzy Man. I'm weary of the religious fanatic routine being shoved down our throats repeatedly this season. While yes it's true to the books - there was so much MORE to it than that in the books and such variety of stories and characters. We seem to have had an abundance of "scary people with evil magical or religious agendas" this season. High Sparrow, Melisandre, Night's King ... (at least the Night's King was a BAMF). Maybe I'm starting to prefer hokey cliche' villain Ramsay as Ozzy terms him (with more swearing). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 0:33:30 GMT
You are aware how sinister that sounded, yes? ?? As a lawyer I took various classes from criminal psychology when I was studying. But thanks for reading too much into this. Beautiful and intelligent, our queen.  |
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Post by Admin on Jun 12, 2015 4:08:23 GMT
?? As a lawyer I took various classes from criminal psychology when I was studying. But thanks for reading too much into this. Beautiful and intelligent, our queen. Yeah also not completely stable but I love dogs and lady UnCat too much to qualify as a psychopath |
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 12, 2015 12:24:11 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm with team Ozzy Man. I'm weary of the religious fanatic routine being shoved down our throats repeatedly this season. While yes it's true to the books - there was so much MORE to it than that in the books and such variety of stories and characters. We seem to have had an abundance of "scary people with evil magical or religious agendas" this season. High Sparrow, Melisandre, Night's King ... (at least the Night's King was a BAMF). Maybe I'm starting to prefer hokey cliche' villain Ramsay as Ozzy terms him (with more swearing). I don't think the Night's King belongs on that list. We don't know his agenda or his motives, so he shouldn't be grouped with religious fanatics. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 15:34:26 GMT
Show Mel, at least, is one of the characters I wouldn't think twice about labeling evil. But not because she wants to do evil things just for the sake of being evil, but because she wants to do evil things in the name of doing something good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall. Just look at all the religious fanatics in this day and age who perform atrocities in the name of their god(s) that we would all quite happily label evil. She is no better than they are. Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm with team Ozzy Man. I'm weary of the religious fanatic routine being shoved down our throats repeatedly this season. While yes it's true to the books - there was so much MORE to it than that in the books and such variety of stories and characters. We seem to have had an abundance of "scary people with evil magical or religious agendas" this season. High Sparrow, Melisandre, Night's King ... (at least the Night's King was a BAMF). Maybe I'm starting to prefer hokey cliche' villain Ramsay as Ozzy terms him (with more swearing). just quoting Ozzy deserves a like |
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Post by Admin on Jun 12, 2015 20:46:36 GMT
 I made this edit and I think I cannot abandon this hotness....Gods forgive me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:48:10 GMT
I made this edit and I think I cannot abandon this hotness....Gods forgive me.  Obviously just joking. |
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 12, 2015 21:43:56 GMT
I made this edit and I think I cannot abandon this hotness....Gods forgive me. The Mannis lives! Don't give up on him just yet! |
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Post by Admin on Jun 12, 2015 21:45:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 22:13:33 GMT
I made this edit and I think I cannot abandon this hotness....Gods forgive me. You can still appreciate his hotness while hating him  Gods, the things I would do to Ramsay  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 22:26:46 GMT
It's true! I think Iwan Rheon is pretty hot (except when he does the crazy bug eye thing) and his character is awful! I don't like Daario, but Michiel Huisman is scrumptious! I am (mostly) able to disconnect from the show when I need to - the actor appreciation pictures help. Stephen is handsome, I agree. Though if I'm going to pick one of the older actors, I'll go for Iain Glen.  |
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Post by Enid on Jun 12, 2015 22:38:09 GMT
Ok, so, after my super cool "I'm confused" post, I decided to put my brain to work because I felt kinda silly, and I think I finally have an answer.
I don't think that bookStannis would burn his daughter mainly because, even though he does think he is the rightful king and considers protecting Westeros his duty, he doesn't seem to be a super-devoted follower of R'hllor. He believes in R'hllor, but his devotion is nothing compared to Selyse's and some of his men. BookStannis wouldn't allow Melisandre to sacrifice Shireen because he is not a fanatic, he puts limits to the things he is willing to do for his god, like burning unbelievers. So yeah, bookStannis would do a lot of things to protect the realm and get the throne, but sacrificing his daughter as an offering to his god is not among them, because he isn't really that pious.
ShowStannis is different in that regard, the show has written him as someone who believes deeply in R'hllor and his messiah status, he always listens to Melisandre and is convinced everything she says is true. ShowStannis is more dedicated to R'hllor than bookStannis, and this is why I think it's believable for ShowStannis to sacrifice his own daughter, because his god demands a sacrifice, if he doesn't, he dies, if he dies, Westeros in doomed, and there is no one with king's blood in all his camp except for Shireen and himself. Is the Gendry situation all over again, except that this time the personal impact for Stannis is going to be much worse than if he had burned Gendry (at least I hope so).
Now, if, for whatever reason, bookStannis became more of a fanatic, and had the same dilemma (dying or sacrificing his daughter believing that will allow him to survive and save the whole realm), would he do it? I think he might. But only if he becomes more of a fanatic, as he is in the books right now, no, I don't think he would let anyone touch his daughter.
Long story short, I see bookStannis and showStannis differently and, because of that, my opinion of Stannis in the show hasn't changed. My opinion of bookStannis hasn't changed either, mainly because that event hasn't happened in the books yet, and until it does I can't form an opinion.
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If we lost her now I would be quite disappointed. Although she does deserve all sorts of horrible things after what she did to sweet Shireen 
