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Post by associatemaester on Jun 10, 2015 9:17:03 GMT
Am I the only one that think it is pretty clear Stannis is doing this because he does think he needs to be king before the White Walker invasion? I don't say that just as a book reader. When Melisandre broaches the subject with Stannis she very clearly says he must become king before the Long Night begins and that only he can lead the armies of the living against the dead.
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 9:38:06 GMT
Am I the only one that think it is pretty clear Stannis is doing this because he does think he needs to be king before the White Walker invasion? I don't say that just as a book reader. When Melisandre broaches the subject with Stannis she very clearly says he must become king before the Long Night begins and that only he can lead the armies of the living against the dead. The chick who is 2 out 3 in blood leeches game says so (notice the hilarity of Mel mentioning just Robb and Joff as if we were just supposed the forget the other one). Sounds legit, let's burn my child.
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 10, 2015 9:50:37 GMT
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 11:26:23 GMT
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Post by associatemaester on Jun 10, 2015 14:36:29 GMT
Am I the only one that think it is pretty clear Stannis is doing this because he does think he needs to be king before the White Walker invasion? I don't say that just as a book reader. When Melisandre broaches the subject with Stannis she very clearly says he must become king before the Long Night begins and that only he can lead the armies of the living against the dead. The chick who is 2 out 3 in blood leeches game says so (notice the hilarity of Mel mentioning just Robb and Joff as if we were just supposed the forget the other one). Sounds legit, let's burn my child. I'm just pointing out that aside from what D&D said the actual dialogue does not support he just believes he's doing it for the throne.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:49:14 GMT
Here's a lovely YouTube comment I found. >Book!Stannis burned Alester Florent for offering Shireen to the Lannisters. >Show!Stannis burned him because he was an "infidel". >Book!Stannis burned Mance Rayder because death is the penalty for leaving the Night's Watch. >Show!Stannis burned him because he wouldn't bend the knee. >Book!Stannis wasn't really impressed with the leeches until all three kings were dead. "Two is not three". Even then, he was reluctant with the prospect of burning an innocent. >Show!Stannis wanted to burn Gendry as soon as the first king died. >Book!Stannis wouldn't burn cannibals to appease the followers of R'hollor and end the snowstorm. This sentence is obviously wrong. Stannis refused to burn innocent unbelievers."Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder." Eventually a few of his men committed cannibalism and were justly killed for that.
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valyrianshadow
Snark
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
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Post by valyrianshadow on Jun 10, 2015 15:39:46 GMT
^^^ That's a good ppint.
I find it funny that Tyrion and Cersei are generally made to look better than their book counterparts and Stannis is made to look worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 15:42:50 GMT
^^^ That's a good ppint. I find it funny that Tyrion and Cersei are generally made to look better than their book counterparts and Stannis is made to look worse. I wonder why D&D hate Stannis, what about him is so repulsive that they decided to just make him the devil?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 15:48:14 GMT
Maybe... JUST maybe... they actually like the character and like giving him the range that they have? They haven't made him so caricature of evil. They've given him depth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 15:50:29 GMT
They are jealous of Stephen because Carice is so hot, so they hate-write the character.
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Post by MarcusAntonius on Jun 10, 2015 15:54:18 GMT
Still got love for Book Stannis, show Stannis can go ahead and die
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 10, 2015 16:04:26 GMT
Maybe... JUST maybe... they actually like the character and like giving him the range that they have? They haven't made him so caricature of evil. They've given him depth. I agree. I don't think they dislike him, despite all they did to him. They probably find him a very interesting character to explore, so they try to add their own touch to him, and sometimes that just doesn't work so well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 16:12:43 GMT
Like I said earlier, having a likable character do something awful is far more provocative and interesting than some of the cartoon villains that appear in the later books. I'm very intrigued to see how Stannis develops from here on out. And as a devout Stannis fan, I'm definitely not having a breakdown of any kind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 16:13:51 GMT
Maybe... JUST maybe... they actually like the character and like giving him the range that they have? They haven't made him so caricature of evil. They've given him depth. I agree. I don't think they dislike him, despite all they did to him. They probably find him a very interesting character to explore, so they try to add their own touch to him, and sometimes that just doesn't work so well. I'm going to say this last bit, and leave it at that, since I seem to be one of the only ones around here who doesn't think D&D has ruined Stannis, this season, etc. Which is disappointing, because I left Westeros.org because I was tired of that... You can make an argument that where the book version of Stannis is at, he wouldn't do it. But we don't know what will happen leading up to it as far as how GRRM writes it. For the show version of him, it's absolutely come from a place of desperation. They aged him like 20 billion years. Go look at how distraught he is. Book Stannis didn't burn his men because they were unbelievers, but Show Stannis did. Anyone who was against R'hllor, he burned. I don't like having to watch a girl burn, but at the same time, nobody flinched when he's burned others. I think the move makes him even more fascinating of a character, rather than being "character assassination" (which is a load of crap - we all do things 'out of character' for who we are).
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Post by associatemaester on Jun 10, 2015 17:06:58 GMT
I agree. I don't think they dislike him, despite all they did to him. They probably find him a very interesting character to explore, so they try to add their own touch to him, and sometimes that just doesn't work so well. I'm going to say this last bit, and leave it at that, since I seem to be one of the only ones around here who doesn't think D&D has ruined Stannis, this season, etc. Which is disappointing, because I left Westeros.org because I was tired of that... You can make an argument that where the book version of Stannis is at, he wouldn't do it. But we don't know what will happen leading up to it as far as how GRRM writes it. For the show version of him, it's absolutely come from a place of desperation. They aged him like 20 billion years. Go look at how distraught he is. Book Stannis didn't burn his men because they were unbelievers, but Show Stannis did. Anyone who was against R'hllor, he burned. I don't like having to watch a girl burn, but at the same time, nobody flinched when he's burned others. I think the move makes him even more fascinating of a character, rather than being "character assassination" (which is a load of crap - we all do things 'out of character' for who we are). Everything in here +1. The scene as horrifying and emotional punch in the gut as I adored Shireen and love Stannis (all the Dragonstone people actually). I've never thought Stannis was a beacon of moral virtue but as GRRM said in spite of what he's done he's a righteous man because he understands the stakes with the White Walkers "The ancient enemy the only enemy that matters." I thought between the initial scene with Melisandre and his reactions this episode that it is pretty clear in the show.
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 17:07:36 GMT
I agree. I don't think they dislike him, despite all they did to him. They probably find him a very interesting character to explore, so they try to add their own touch to him, and sometimes that just doesn't work so well. I'm going to say this last bit, and leave it at that, since I seem to be one of the only ones around here who doesn't think D&D has ruined Stannis, this season, etc. Which is disappointing, because I left Westeros.org because I was tired of that... You can make an argument that where the book version of Stannis is at, he wouldn't do it. But we don't know what will happen leading up to it as far as how GRRM writes it. For the show version of him, it's absolutely come from a place of desperation. They aged him like 20 billion years. Go look at how distraught he is. Book Stannis didn't burn his men because they were unbelievers, but Show Stannis did. Anyone who was against R'hllor, he burned. I don't like having to watch a girl burn, but at the same time, nobody flinched when he's burned others. I think the move makes him even more fascinating of a character, rather than being "character assassination" (which is a load of crap - we all do things 'out of character' for who we are). As thrilled as I am that the opinion I share is 'load of crap', I have been a huge Stannis fan for years but that was character assassination and I never used that phrase before in my life or in that show, not even with Jaime. I went from loving Stannis to wishing he was dead already, so that's that.
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 10, 2015 17:11:03 GMT
Stannis is NOT OOC for his SHOW version. What his 'book version' is has absolutely no bearing on what he does in the show and never has.
That doesn't mean that book Stannis isn't a complete asshole who still kills people. His motives are different sometimes, but here's the thing:
It doesn't MATTER if he was 'reluctant' in burning his nephew in the books...he was still going to do it for religious reasons. Had he burned Edric, he would have been just as awful as if he had burned Gendry.
In the show, he's desperate. This is his last chance to win this war, literally, and if he doesn't take it, he's doomed. In the books, he's not at that point yet...but that doesn't mean he won't get there one day.
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 17:12:42 GMT
Stannis is NOT OOC for his SHOW version. What his 'book version' is has absolutely no bearing on what he does in the show and never has. That doesn't mean that book Stannis isn't a complete asshole who still kills people. His motives are different sometimes, but here's the thing: It doesn't MATTER if he was 'reluctant' in burning his nephew in the books...he was still going to do it for religious reasons. Had he burned Edric, he would have been just as awful as if he had burned Gendry. Use all the caps lock you like, I still find what the show did AND the character despicable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 17:12:54 GMT
I'm going to say this last bit, and leave it at that, since I seem to be one of the only ones around here who doesn't think D&D has ruined Stannis, this season, etc. Which is disappointing, because I left Westeros.org because I was tired of that... You can make an argument that where the book version of Stannis is at, he wouldn't do it. But we don't know what will happen leading up to it as far as how GRRM writes it. For the show version of him, it's absolutely come from a place of desperation. They aged him like 20 billion years. Go look at how distraught he is. Book Stannis didn't burn his men because they were unbelievers, but Show Stannis did. Anyone who was against R'hllor, he burned. I don't like having to watch a girl burn, but at the same time, nobody flinched when he's burned others. I think the move makes him even more fascinating of a character, rather than being "character assassination" (which is a load of crap - we all do things 'out of character' for who we are). As thrilled as I am that the opinion I share is 'load of crap', I have been a huge Stannis fan for years but that was character assassination and I never used that phrase before in my life or in that show, not even with Jaime. I went from loving Stannis to wishing he was dead already, so that's that. What "opinion"? I never pointed at you. I said that the idea that something is out of character and is "character assassination" literally makes no sense. Think about the real world and tell me you haven't known people to do things that were out of character for them. It happens.
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
Posts: 354
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 10, 2015 17:14:18 GMT
Stannis is NOT OOC for his SHOW version. What his 'book version' is has absolutely no bearing on what he does in the show and never has. That doesn't mean that book Stannis isn't a complete asshole who still kills people. His motives are different sometimes, but here's the thing: It doesn't MATTER if he was 'reluctant' in burning his nephew in the books...he was still going to do it for religious reasons. Had he burned Edric, he would have been just as awful as if he had burned Gendry. Use all the caps lock you like, I still find what the show did AND the character despicable. You're supposed to. That's the point. But it's not OOC. That doesn't mean he didn't do despicable stuff in the books, even if his motives are different. History rarely cares about the motives people had when they did terrible things.
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