What do you think of Stannis?

This isn't about whether Stannis is moral or immoral or whether he is being potrayed as ooc or not. I think every explanation I've read why Stannis did what he did to be true in principle, but looking at the show I just feel that it was very, very clumsily written. There should have been more scenes showing how hard Ramsay's attack hit them. They still had horses to eat. There should have been a larger argument between Mel and Stannis, where we really see his predicament and where Mel tells him that he must sacrifice Shireen in order to fullfil the prophecy of Azor Ahai or see them all die. I know that it was all said at some point in the last couple of seasons. But they also had the Stannis/Shireen scene in 5x04, which cancelled everything else out, because he obviously loved his daughter. I'm sorry, but it really looked like some tents burning in one scene and then in the next scene Stannis is burning Shireen, his only daughter who he loved. I know what D&D wanted to potray, but they didn't manage to do so adequately. And what counts is what is on the screen, not what they wanted to be on the screen. It is supposed to be like a Greek tragedy, but it only was one on paper. I expect an Emmy-nominated tv series to sell me its plot in a convincing manner so that the characters' actions feel somewhat believable to me. I don't like having to organize messy scenes in my head, so that they resemble a coherent and logical sequence of plot. It was not believable and too fast. Any loving father would have struggled way more than Stannis and mull over and over again whether he should really do this or not. If they had shown me his struggle and made his thought process more believable, I would defend the scene. But they didn't, so I won't.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. Any man or woman who burns his or her daughter is evil.

If Stannis actually were AAR and he had to sacrifice Shireen to fully ~become~ AAR then whatever, I could get over it and believe it was necessary, but he is not. He is a blind fool who has let a religious fanatic lead him to believe that murdering his daughter was necessary, and he did it. This is not a "her or everyone" situation at all.

I agree with this too. Hell, AA has never even been mentioned in the show has it? Show Stannis is doing this for the Iron Throne. I think Mel even says it "You have to be king by the time the Long Night comes" King doesn't mean AA.

The whole point of the fire-sword was to illustrate AA.


"You will betray the men serving you, you will betray your family, you will betray everything you once held dear... and it will all be worth it, because you are the Son of Fire, you are the Warrior of Light."

―Melisandre to Stannis Baratheon

I agree. Their wishes to finish the series in 7 seasons are harming the show more than anything else. GoT should end with ten seasons IMHO. I hope HBO forces them to.

Found the perfect way to contribute to the thread:

I do remember that and she did say he was the lords chosen. But I also don't believe she said anything about what that even means. She never said he would be the one to lead the fight against the Others or any of that.

Sure we knew what Lightbringer represents as book readers but do any Unsullied know what "the lords chosen" even means? Because if I didn't read the books I would have no idea or assume she means the Throne. I would assume the battle in the snow was Winterfell, as someone above me said.

Mel's magic is just not clear enough in the show. Balon isn't even dead. What we get out of Shireen burning isn't even explained well at all. What does Stannis gain? A win in Winterfell? A win for the throne? A win as AA savior of the realm? I hope we know this answer soon. And it doesn't even matter because Mel will adandon him anyway.

Oh sure, Stannis kills his only child one time and you all jump ship. Frankly, I'm disappointed in your devotion. Look at me, I'm not even wrestling with any moral conundrum. Yep, feels pretty good over here in The Mannis camp. Look at how happy I am, weeeeeee.

This is how I see it as well - a clearly blurred line between book Stannis and show Stannis that is not only confusing but contradictory in a few ways already pointed out far better and in great detail in this discussion by others.

Stannis believed he was the true heir (political) and it's Melisandre who seized that and twisted into him being the one true chosen of the God of Light which he pretty much went along with in the books... I don't remember him ever really onboard with the whole theory. That's why finally agreeing to sacrifice Shireen doesn't make a lot of sense to me and it seems to be lost on a vast majority of the show watchers. Yeah he went up there and busted up the wildling attack and saved the Night's Watch but he wasn't there to fight the White Walkers nor did he ever even mention it as of any importance to him. It all felt more like political maneuvering to get into position of gaining the North's favor and not some divine prophecy he's fulfilling at all. Not AT ALL.

So when you have it from that perspective, him burning Shireen has next to nothing to do with the greater good of mankind (empowering him to rule and defeat the white walkers) and everything to do with defeating the Boltons and taking over the North and marching south to take the throne. It's therefore INVALID to sacrifice your child to a God you don't believe in and are not serving with that sacrifice. HE DONE FUCKED UP.