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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 20:23:33 GMT
What if GRRM actually just trolled D&D and is laughing his head off atm?  These reactions might convince him to change his plot. Would be breach of contract. He's entitled to change his mind about things but not to give them false information. He's already said however that he won't change things just because the show covers them first. Oh. Damn it.  I'm still delusional about Stannis's part in Shireen's death though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 20:26:27 GMT
Would be breach of contract. He's entitled to change his mind about things but not to give them false information. He's already said however that he won't change things just because the show covers them first. Oh. Damn it. I'm still delusional about Stannis's part in Shireen's death though. Well, they certainly changed when exactly the scene happens. I think in the books it'll happen after he either survives after losing the battle of ice and returns to the Wall with his tail between his legs or after Manderly and co. betray him in favour of Rickon after he wins. But the way Benioff phrased that made it seem like it will involve Stannis in TWOW when it happens.
Regardless I thought it made for great TV.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 20:28:42 GMT
What if GRRM actually just trolled D&D and is laughing his head off atm? These reactions might convince him to change his plot. The scene where this happens in the book has probably already been written, so let's hope he doesn't decide to change his mind because that would just delay TWOW a whole bunch. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 20:30:13 GMT
What if GRRM actually just trolled D&D and is laughing his head off atm? These reactions might convince him to change his plot. The scene where this happens in the book has probably already been written, so let's hope he doesn't decide to change his mind because that would just delay TWOW a whole bunch. And that's the last fucking thing we need.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 20:33:59 GMT
Oh. Damn it. I'm still delusional about Stannis's part in Shireen's death though. Well, they certainly changed when exactly the scene happens. I think in the books it'll happen after he either survives after losing the battle of ice and returns to the Wall with his tail between his legs or after Manderly and co. betray him in favour of Rickon after he wins. But the way Benioff phrased that made it seem like it will involve Stannis in TWOW when it happens.
Regardless I thought it made for great TV.
I think that the Queen's men and Mel will burn her in the panic that ensues from the battle of the Ice. Manderly and co won't really have time to betray him. WW are coming, even though the walkers are significantly slower in the books. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 18:34:53 GMT
He won't say anything substantive, and I don't expect him to. I don't think he's obligated to reveals plot points from his unpublished work in progress just because people are upset. Eventually when the books are published people can just find out the truth for themselves. Like all the book reports ended in my elementary school, "And if you want to know what happens, get the book and read it yourself." (You're right, though, of course.) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 19:11:16 GMT
Except that Gendry's blood had nothing to do with Robb and Joff dying, Mel saw their deaths in her fires, interpreted what she saw correctly for once, and used the leeches to make Stannis believe it was her who caused their deaths. I'm not happy with Shireen's death either, but this the least we can do is use actual arguments to criticize the scene Eh... I think she secretly just wanted to bang Gendry. He's hot!  But seriously - I can't really get into that whole king's blood argument with people because it's contradictory in quite a few ways and I honestly think GRRM did that intentionally to make her even more ambiguous. She's full of shit part of the time and yet she DID make that demon baby thing - there's no denying that was just smokes and mirrors, right? Or was all of that just a glamour too? Did Brienne not see what she saw? Who the hell knows anymore. I just want the Red Witch to BURN like she so casually burns everyone else!  Davos saw it, too - he almost puked right there in the boat. Interesting, though, who WILL be his heir now? UnShadowBaby? (Where did that mf get to, anyway, after he/she/it killed Renly?) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 20:33:57 GMT
Eh... I think she secretly just wanted to bang Gendry. He's hot! But seriously - I can't really get into that whole king's blood argument with people because it's contradictory in quite a few ways and I honestly think GRRM did that intentionally to make her even more ambiguous. She's full of shit part of the time and yet she DID make that demon baby thing - there's no denying that was just smokes and mirrors, right? Or was all of that just a glamour too? Did Brienne not see what she saw? Who the hell knows anymore. I just want the Red Witch to BURN like she so casually burns everyone else! Davos saw it, too - he almost puked right there in the boat. Interesting, though, who WILL be his heir now? UnShadowBaby? (Where did that mf get to, anyway, after he/she/it killed Renly?) Yeah this is one of the issues I have with the plot twist. If this man is so driven to fulfill his supposed divine right destiny and become king, why wouldn't the fact he has no heir be of any importance to that? What's the point of fighting so many battles, losing so many men, and nearly dying, then sacrificing your child to survive if there's no one to take the throne in your name after that? He's not exactly a spring chicken. Maybe he figures he'll find some younger woman and pull a King Henry and off Selyse to marry another until he produces an heir? I don't know what he thinks but none of it matters, he damned himself forever with what he did now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 2:26:09 GMT
Davos saw it, too - he almost puked right there in the boat. Interesting, though, who WILL be his heir now? UnShadowBaby? (Where did that mf get to, anyway, after he/she/it killed Renly?) Yeah this is one of the issues I have with the plot twist. If this man is so driven to fulfill his supposed divine right destiny and become king, why wouldn't the fact he has no heir be of any importance to that? What's the point of fighting so many battles, losing so many men, and nearly dying, then sacrificing your child to survive if there's no one to take the throne in your name after that? He's not exactly a spring chicken. Maybe he figures he'll find some younger woman and pull a King Henry and off Selyse to marry another until he produces an heir? I don't know what he thinks but none of it matters, he damned himself forever with what he did now. I think he has, too. And although Cersei, LF, Walder Frey, Ramsay, et. al., continue to live on and on (at least at this point) in spite of everything they've done, I don't think it will be so with Stannis. I'm anxious to see how Martin handles it in TWOW. I also think of the remorse and guilt he felt after killing Renly, and he didn't even like him much. |
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 10, 2015 2:35:50 GMT
Yeah this is one of the issues I have with the plot twist. If this man is so driven to fulfill his supposed divine right destiny and become king, why wouldn't the fact he has no heir be of any importance to that? What's the point of fighting so many battles, losing so many men, and nearly dying, then sacrificing your child to survive if there's no one to take the throne in your name after that? He's not exactly a spring chicken. Maybe he figures he'll find some younger woman and pull a King Henry and off Selyse to marry another until he produces an heir? I don't know what he thinks but none of it matters, he damned himself forever with what he did now. I think he has, too. And although Cersei, LF, Walder Frey, Ramsay, et. al., continue to live on and on (at least at this point) in spite of everything they've done, I don't think it will be so with Stannis. I'm anxious to see how Martin handles it in TWOW. I also think of the remorse and guilt he felt after killing Renly, and he didn't even like him much. Well, even in the show, you could see how utterly gutted Stannis was during that scene, so I imagine it will continue to haunt him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 2:50:06 GMT
I think he has, too. And although Cersei, LF, Walder Frey, Ramsay, et. al., continue to live on and on (at least at this point) in spite of everything they've done, I don't think it will be so with Stannis. I'm anxious to see how Martin handles it in TWOW. I also think of the remorse and guilt he felt after killing Renly, and he didn't even like him much. Well, even in the show, you could see how utterly gutted Stannis was during that scene, so I imagine it will continue to haunt him. True. I wonder if this won't be the death of him as much as any sword or WW, i.e., this is how he's damned himself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 3:50:25 GMT
Well, even in the show, you could see how utterly gutted Stannis was during that scene, so I imagine it will continue to haunt him. True. I wonder if this won't be the death of him as much as any sword or WW, i.e., this is how he's damned himself. As well he should. He needs to be dead. That is all. R.I.P. sweet Shireen, plain, sweet, bookish little girl. Fuck you, Stannis, die, asshole! PS: What is your new avatar, I don't get it.
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 10, 2015 3:59:38 GMT
True. I wonder if this won't be the death of him as much as any sword or WW, i.e., this is how he's damned himself. As well he should. He needs to be dead. That is all. R.I.P. sweet Shireen, plain, sweet, bookish little girl. Fuck you, Stannis, die, asshole! PS: What is your new avatar, I don't get it.
No, don't let Shireen's sacrifice be for nothing :-S |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 4:00:31 GMT
True. I wonder if this won't be the death of him as much as any sword or WW, i.e., this is how he's damned himself. As well he should. He needs to be dead. That is all. R.I.P. sweet Shireen, plain, sweet, bookish little girl. Fuck you, Stannis, die, asshole! PS: What is your new avatar, I don't get it.
Oh, it's just a book with butterflies (not moths, god, no, not moths  ) coming out of the pages. It's the second I've experimented with in the last 1/2 hour, and I'll probably change it a few more times before I'm done. I've got a lot of images, many of books, but so far nothing just 'fits' for this fan board. |
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 10, 2015 5:24:41 GMT
GRRM finally responded in some fashion about Shireen's death: mjy6478
Jun. 10th, 2015 04:35 am (UTC)
Game of Thrones (I'm sorry)
Hi George, before I get to my question let me just say that I am a big fan of both the books and the show. I have no problems with changes in the show, for I view the show and the books as the accounts of two different historians trying to relay the same history. Historians always contradicted and disagreed with each other, and it is our job to discern what really happened. Anyways, on to my question. There is a raging debate online about the Shireen burning. The show runners have stated that you told them that Shireen would burn in the books. However, there is a disagreement about whether Stannis himself will give the order to burn Shireen or consent in anyway to its occurrence. I just want to know if Stannis is himself responsible in anyway for Shireen's death in the books. If you do not wish to disclose this, I will understand. Thanks!
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grrm
Jun. 10th, 2015 05:08 am (UTC)
Re: Game of Thrones (I'm sorry)
If I start to comment on what might or might not happen in scenes that I have not written yet, I will be "spoiling" my own books.
I have no further comment at this time.He hasn't written Shireen's death scene yet. grrm.livejournal.com/428790.html#comments |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 5:28:17 GMT
GRRM finally responded in some fashion about Shireen's death: mjy6478
Jun. 10th, 2015 04:35 am (UTC)
Game of Thrones (I'm sorry)
Hi George, before I get to my question let me just say that I am a big fan of both the books and the show. I have no problems with changes in the show, for I view the show and the books as the accounts of two different historians trying to relay the same history. Historians always contradicted and disagreed with each other, and it is our job to discern what really happened. Anyways, on to my question. There is a raging debate online about the Shireen burning. The show runners have stated that you told them that Shireen would burn in the books. However, there is a disagreement about whether Stannis himself will give the order to burn Shireen or consent in anyway to its occurrence. I just want to know if Stannis is himself responsible in anyway for Shireen's death in the books. If you do not wish to disclose this, I will understand. Thanks!
Link | Reply | Thread
grrm
Jun. 10th, 2015 05:08 am (UTC)
Re: Game of Thrones (I'm sorry)
If I start to comment on what might or might not happen in scenes that I have not written yet, I will be "spoiling" my own books.
I have no further comment at this time.He hasn't written Shireen's death scene yet. grrm.livejournal.com/428790.html#commentsNot sure how that confirms he hasn't written the scene yet? This is par for the course with Mr. Martin - he NEVER confirms or denies anything and has maintained that same stance for years. I honestly don't know how he manages to not just go off on people after so much disrespect and immature bs the fans throw at him (not that particular post, it was well stated) - just sayin'  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 5:31:06 GMT
Davos saw it, too - he almost puked right there in the boat. Interesting, though, who WILL be his heir now? UnShadowBaby? (Where did that mf get to, anyway, after he/she/it killed Renly?) Yeah this is one of the issues I have with the plot twist. If this man is so driven to fulfill his supposed divine right destiny and become king, why wouldn't the fact he has no heir be of any importance to that? What's the point of fighting so many battles, losing so many men, and nearly dying, then sacrificing your child to survive if there's no one to take the throne in your name after that? He's not exactly a spring chicken. Maybe he figures he'll find some younger woman and pull a King Henry and off Selyse to marry another until he produces an heir? I don't know what he thinks but none of it matters, he damned himself forever with what he did now. I think he realizes his destiny goes beyond taking the throne to further the Baratheon line, but uniting the Seven Kingdoms to defeat the White Walker invasion and saving humanity. It doesn't really matter who inherits the throne after him, because if he doesn't succeed, all of mankind will be wiped out anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 5:40:49 GMT
Yeah this is one of the issues I have with the plot twist. If this man is so driven to fulfill his supposed divine right destiny and become king, why wouldn't the fact he has no heir be of any importance to that? What's the point of fighting so many battles, losing so many men, and nearly dying, then sacrificing your child to survive if there's no one to take the throne in your name after that? He's not exactly a spring chicken. Maybe he figures he'll find some younger woman and pull a King Henry and off Selyse to marry another until he produces an heir? I don't know what he thinks but none of it matters, he damned himself forever with what he did now. I think he realizes his destiny goes beyond taking the throne to further the Baratheon line, but uniting the Seven Kingdoms to defeat the White Walker invasion and saving humanity. It doesn't really matter who inherits the throne after him, because if he doesn't succeed, all of mankind will be wiped out anyway. I guess if you do finally give in to the delusional fanaticism you could see it from that perspective. I just never really expected Stannis to fully give in to Melisandre's crap. It's always been apparent from his looks, thoughts, words, etc that he was tolerating it all and playing along with the act (remember the burning sword bits)... he didn't really believe most of it. He did see things in the flames, but was never convinced what he saw was real. Even at the end of the last episode he was with Melisandre, he still questioned her, still wasn't sure, still denied it for the most part. It was an abrupt 180 I will never really understand to be honest and regardless of his sudden conviction based on necessity to 'fulfill his destiny' - it still makes no sense for him to burn the heir of his title. Some have compared the Red God religion to more fanatical christianity... and how Abraham was tested to sacrifice his son. Well wtf, no - if I recall my biblical lessons as a kid (pretty fuzzy here), Abraham didn't actually have to go through with that, right? This isn't quite the same crap. Still crap regardless. |
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on Jun 10, 2015 6:37:08 GMT
Some have compared the Red God religion to more fanatical christianity... and how Abraham was tested to sacrifice his son. Well wtf, no - if I recall my biblical lessons as a kid (pretty fuzzy here), Abraham didn't actually have to go through with that, right? This isn't quite the same crap. Still crap regardless. God stopped Abraham after Abraham was ready to do it and he was like "dude, okay, just kill a ram for me instead." It was a test of obedience and deus ex machima. There's also the aspect of God the Father giving up his son to die to save everyone from their sins, but even that is a pretty big cop out. Jesus' "Game Over" isn't really a death, it's more like a cheat code that lets him go straight to the final boss battle (after he dies on the cross he descends into hell and defeats Satan or something. God wanted to leave things open in case he got a sequel deal.) then comes back to earth with cloak, invincibility, no-clip mode and gets to run around the Sandbox for awhile (he never spawned a tank though) before heading off to the bonus round of getting to sit at the right hand of his father in heavenly paradise. Anyway... Murdering a child in any religion is pretty tough sell. There is actually a big thing about child sacrifice being unacceptable in the Biblical Old Testament because a different local religion to Israel practiced it. It's obviously not a thing in any major modern world religion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 6:50:29 GMT
Yes, I don't see how child sacrifice is going to win Stannis a kingdom. I know a lot of people keep saying "Yeah but in the bigger picture, does it matter who's left to rule if the white walkers win? Stannis thinks he's the only chance to stop that..." Ok. Except, on the show, they've painted it as his need to survive to attack Winterfell ... and why? So he can then keep going south and take over the rest of Westeros ... and why? So he can then rule and stop the white walkers ... aaaand how exactly? The argument just gets weaker and weaker the further down the rabbit hole you go. I asked way too many "Why" questions during my brief stint exploring christianity upon my religious auntie's urging. There's a reason my stint was so brief. Only 9 year old I know who got kicked out of sunday school because I wouldn't stop asking the teacher questions she couldn't answer other than "Because it is what we believe to be true ..." and not satisfied with that, continued to scoff the stories as not even half as good as the greek mythology tales I'd learned in my Grandmother's library all summer.  |
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These reactions might convince him to change his plot.
) coming out of the pages. It's the second I've experimented with in the last 1/2 hour, and I'll probably change it a few more times before I'm done. I've got a lot of images, many of books, but so far nothing just 'fits' for this fan board. 
