[SPOILERS] Tyrion and Jorah: Talking about Dany

When did the first bolded happen?

Found it!


And where is it implied that they were little girls?

And where in Barristan's chapter is it implied that they were raped?

In the books, Dany burnt Mirri Maz Duur alive in retaliation for deceiving her with Drogo. She had the 163 slave masters killed in Meereen in retaliation for what they did. In Astapor, she fried Kraznys alive and had all the Unsullied murder the masters in retaliation.

Why is it so out of character that she takes the masters in Meereen (of which she knows some or all are responsible for the Sons of the Harpy uprising) and has one of them murdered in retaliation for Barristan's death? This is definitely not out of character for her. She does this ALL THE TIME.

I liked the scene. All valid questions.

I feel like some Unsullied watchers still didn't understand how bad some of the things she's been doing are because omg dragons. They have done better this season about that with killing that slave. Not that it's a good thing but they have to ask those questions so she can overcome all of that. Or something.

It's not.

Well, for all we know they were also part of the attacks. Remember, the daughters where there with their father at the wine bar serving the Unsullied when all of Dany's men were slaughtered by the SoH.

This actually makes me think now of the prostitute in the show who is on cahoots with the Harpy.

Dany lashes out by punishing and killing those who she thinks have wronged her consistently, both in the books and on the show (I've cited multiple examples above). The scene where she is devastated by Barristan's death, feels the masters are to blame because they control the Harpies and demonstrates her frustration and feelings of helplessness by feeding one of them to the dragons in order to get one of them to confess to being behind the SoTH is definitely consistent with her character. Period. Stop.

First off, your opinion is not fact, so there is no Period and there is no Stop.

Second, the people Dany has punished have almost always genuinely wronged her or someone else. 

MMD - She not only killed Dany;s unborn child but she also for all intent and purpose killed Dany's husband. Now, you can argue that MMD had every right to get vengence on Drogo for what he did to her village and I would agree with you but she had no right to also kill Dany's child. And as MMD had a right to seek justice vengeance for her people, Dany had a right to seek justice and vengeance for her child.

Kraznak and the Good Masters - Not only was the head Master in charge of training the Unsullied but he right in front of Dany mutilated an Unsullied because: reason. Dany killed him for what he and the other Masters had done to the Unsullied. She was so disgusted by what she had witness that she could not just let things be like the thousands of other people who had stopped in Astapor to buy Unsullied.

163 Masters - Might I remind you that these Master and a lot of others conspired to have 163 children crucified just to mess around with Dany. These same Master's like the one's in Astopor lathered children in honey and threw them to bears.

Dany's justice might be bloody and I might not always agree with her methods but she's not going around just killing people because she thinks they've wronged her, these people have either wronged her or thousands of countless innocent people who didn't deserve their fates.

It's out of character because she knows about what happened with Aerys in the show. It's also not just the burning of the Masters in that scene, she gives a psychotic speech to frighten people and caresses Hizdahr's back like she was Ramsay.

Barristan is her most trusted adviser, who has been around longer than anyone remaining and knows all the players comes to her and says: "hey, your father lost everything because he burned men alive and gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved, but that only lead to a massive rebellion that killed every Targaryen." Then Dany swallows her throat at the revelation of this news and says that she is not her father. And Barristan says shes not, and he thanks the gods for it.

It's out of character for any human being because she is armed with the exact knowledge of what not to do at this point ...and she just goes ahead and does it anyway because she thinks it is the proper response without any consideration at all, while staring at the corpse of the guy who gave us this information, on the heels of him just telling a story about her brother hours ago.

Characters don't have to always be rational, but there are limits to how irrational a character can be written because when processing information it should show development and events from their past should effect their decisions. The story about her father was a crucial part of character development that should influence her decisions going forward, or have to be broken down overtime. There must be a reason for her to ignore that information in this context, and in this context there is not. Yes she is troubled and disturbed by Barristan's death, but what Barristan said should set up a wall in her mind about what is acceptable and what is not. If that wall comes down it must be done over time, or a new revelation relevant to saying: "Burning People Alive, Yes, That is good and helpful."

It's bad writing because if they wanted to have Dany burn a Master like that, then they shouldn't have had that scene between her and Barristan in 5.02. It's not something that Dany would do in the context of her development. Dany is a cruel and harsh ruler and makes a lot of mistakes, and I agree the show should portray her screwing up and not being a "white" character - but you can't just throw any random cruel events in that you want for her without considering what a Dany, if she was a real person, would do at that moment.

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It's the same thing that caused some of the problems with Septgate.

Jaime vehemently thought rape was a horrific thing right before he had his hand cut off, and told Brienne how she needed to just accept what was coming for her. When Brienne asked him what he would do, he said he would make them kill him. This shows he holds a strong opinion of how terrible rape is. Yet... in 4.03 he goes and rapes the woman he loves. It's not just offensive writing, it's stupid and offensive.

Here's the clip from the Oxford Union where Benioff explains why they wrote the Sept scene. His reason is "Jaime is complex, and he's not a good guy. So we felt in that context this would be something he would do."

I expect Benioff would give the same thing about Dany here "Dany is complex, she killed all the masters in Astapor above the age of twelve, she killed all these masters, she's not a great ruler - she's very troubled. So we felt in the wake of Barristan's death this is something she would do."

No. It's not something either of these characters would do, because you can't ignore certain things you've already written. When you establish beliefs in certain characters you can't have them cross lines without reason that should internally be extremely, deeply held beliefs. Yes, they're gray characters, but you can't just shove anything you want in there that is bad and say it's something they would do.

Part of what made Jaime good was his anti-rape stance.
Part of what made Dany good was her anti-firemurder stance.

You can't just make Jaime pro-rape and Dany pro-murder to say "hey, this character is gray."

It's unfathomably dumb writing logic.

Appreciate the well thought out arguments but Dany thinks that these men are behind the group that murdered Barristan and other Unsullied and therefore she feels justified in doling out the same kind of punishment that other terrible people who have wronged her got. I don't see how that's inconsistent.

Keep in mind that now that her only advisor at this point is Daario and this is what he's been telling her to do all along. Keep the people of Meereen in line by showing them the power of the dragons and how ruthless she can be if pushed to it. She's conflicted in how she wants to rule but she can certainly be swayed to go to this extreme as she's shown on numerous occasions. This season is all about her wavering about how best to rule in Meereen given a situation that is essentially untenable for her. She's frustrated and angry and she'd trying to draw a confession out of these gutless cowards the only way (as Mossadar stated) they understand, through blood and force.

It was a great scene and I feel like this another one of those things that people are more upset about because it "wasn't in the books" more than anything. I don't see how you can wave away all the other ruthless and brutal things she does in the books because "they deserved it" and not think that these assholes who have been sending out cowardly killers in masks to butcher her soldiers and friends aren't in the same category.