valyrianshadow
Snark 
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Posts: 943 
|
Post by valyrianshadow on May 18, 2015 11:16:56 GMT
Slept on it. Still disgusted. Going to feel that way for a while. Until hopefully she kills someone. Or someone else does.
We all know how Stannis feels about rape. Get on that my king.
|
|
sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
Posts: 354
|
Post by sj4iy on May 18, 2015 11:30:06 GMT
Sansa getting raped doesn't make this a bad episode. It's a terrible thing, yes- but necessary to the story. It would have been disingenuous of the show to not have that scene in some way, and it was tastefully shot and beautifully acted.
Did it need to happen? Yes- in this version of the story, it did, because now it sets the stakes higher than ever for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod and Stannis. If this had been a serving girl pretending to be Arya, people would have been "yuck" but wouldn't have cared very much. The audience is now fully invested in Sansa's storyline- which I don't think would have happened had they stayed with the HtH plot.
How will this play out? I don't know...but I'm going to let it play out before I jump to conclusions. And as far as Vanity Fair goes, I've read several reviews this morning saying the scene was very well done, so I guess this will be another "controversy" for the media outlets to feed on. Makes for better clickbait, I guess.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 11:31:38 GMT
Sansa getting raped doesn't make this a bad episode. It's a terrible thing, yes- but necessary to the story. It would have been disingenuous of the show to not have that scene in some way, and it was tastefully shot and beautifully acted. Did it need to happen? Yes- in this version of the story, it did, because now it sets the stakes higher than ever for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod and Stannis. If this had been a serving girl pretending to be Arya, people would have been "yuck" but wouldn't have cared very much. The fact that some people are fine when it comes to anyone getting raped on this show as long as it was in the books is very telling. How will this play out? I don't know...but I'm going to let it play out before I jump to conclusions. And as far as Vanity Fair goes, I've read several reviews this morning saying the scene was very well done, so I guess this will be another "controversy" for the media outlets to feed on. Makes for better clickbait, I guess. I have a lot I would love to say to this, but I don't trust myself to be able to articulate it in a manner that is not rude so I'll just say that I disagree with this post entirely  |
|
King Tyrion I
Grumpkin
"I am the God of Tits and Wine!"
Posts: 373 
|
Post by King Tyrion I on May 18, 2015 11:32:51 GMT
Sansa getting raped doesn't make this a bad episode. It's a terrible thing, yes- but necessary to the story. It would have been disingenuous of the show to not have that scene in some way, and it was tastefully shot and beautifully acted. Did it need to happen? Yes- in this version of the story, it did, because now it sets the stakes higher than ever for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod and Stannis. If this had been a serving girl pretending to be Arya, people would have been "yuck" but wouldn't have cared very much. The audience is now fully invested in Sansa's storyline- which I don't think would have happened had they stayed with the HtH plot. How will this play out? I don't know...but I'm going to let it play out before I jump to conclusions. And as far as Vanity Fair goes, I've read several reviews this morning saying the scene was very well done, so I guess this will be another "controversy" for the media outlets to feed on. Makes for better clickbait, I guess. My thoughts exactly. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:00:52 GMT
Thanks for sharing this. It was very well written and it articulated a lot of why I'm upset at the scene. The episode itself was fine but I'm not sure this was necessary for this story and I say not sure because I don't know how D&D will continue to develop the story. However, Sansa didn't need any further motivation to hate the Boltons, they destroyed her family, she hated them enough already. While thinking about what can Sansa possibly do to get some semblance of revenge I though that the best way for Ramsay to die is to be flayed alive, slowly. Also, have the words Winter is Coming carved on his face. Or something like that. He needs to die and hard. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:01:54 GMT
I really hope she kills someone responsible for what is happening. Maybe LF? There better be a pay off other than the escape Seriously, fuck LF! I hope he dies horribly. Hopefully eaten by a direwolf, or cut into pieces by Oathkeeper. LF can't die hard enough. I want his death to be the worst, most painful death in the series. But I know I'm not going to get that. |
|
|
|
Post by Father of Dragons on May 18, 2015 12:11:10 GMT
Well I now agree with Roose is Azor Ahai that Littlefinger should be flayed.
I admit, it was deeply disturbing and although it was more toned down than the books, it happened to Sansa so the strong impact is still there.
However, seeing as how I knew it was coming, I have to say that Talisa-baby-stabbing left me more shocked and disturbed, purely because I didn't see it coming
|
|
|
|
Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 18, 2015 12:14:18 GMT
Sansa getting raped doesn't make this a bad episode. It's a terrible thing, yes- but necessary to the story. It would have been disingenuous of the show to not have that scene in some way, and it was tastefully shot and beautifully acted. Did it need to happen? Yes- in this version of the story, it did, because now it sets the stakes higher than ever for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod and Stannis. If this had been a serving girl pretending to be Arya, people would have been "yuck" but wouldn't have cared very much. The fact that some people are fine when it comes to anyone getting raped on this show as long as it was in the books is very telling. How will this play out? I don't know...but I'm going to let it play out before I jump to conclusions. And as far as Vanity Fair goes, I've read several reviews this morning saying the scene was very well done, so I guess this will be another "controversy" for the media outlets to feed on. Makes for better clickbait, I guess. I have a lot I would love to say to this, but I don't trust myself to be able to articulate it in a manner that is not rude so I'll just say that I disagree with this post entirely Thank you Fire and Blood. I was afraid I was the only one... |
|
sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
Posts: 354
|
Post by sj4iy on May 18, 2015 12:32:06 GMT
The scene was disturbing...no, I don't expect some people to like it. Hell, I didn't like watching it.
My point, though, is not that- my point is that it was always going to happen. And that it was more tasteful and better depicted than the parallel scene with Jeyne Poole in the books, which was downright disgusting. The show toned it down A LOT.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:45:00 GMT
Like I said in another thread, it was much, much better than I expected. It was still horrible, though. When we were discussing this scene this last week I was saying I wouldn't really mind it and wouldn't have many problems with it, but you guys were right about the victim being a character who we've have watched grow up for years, both in age and in character development. I felt like I was watching my sister having sex. I had a nearly identical experience. Rape always upsets me, so I knew I'd be upset, but I was more upset by it than I anticipated. I think the fact that they pulled back and just showed Theon's face and let us hear her...was in some ways worse. I'm glad I knew it was coming. |
|
|
|
Post by associatemaester on May 18, 2015 12:48:47 GMT
God knows I have the reputation of being a "show apologist" and "D&D lover," but that scene was absolutely not necessary. It was the consequence of a narrative choice that they'd apparently been planning since season 2. The only reason the rape "was necessary" is because the show runners made it a driving part of Sansa's plot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:53:42 GMT
So, I guess I'm thinking now, what would make this worth it? Anything? Is there any character development for Sansa that would be predicated by losing her virginity this way or was this just an extension of her ill treatment and a catalyst for Theon?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:56:15 GMT
So, I guess I'm thinking now, what would make this worth it? Anything? Is there any character development for Sansa that would be predicated by losing her virginity this way or was this just an extension of her ill treatment and a catalyst for Theon? I think you have it with the latter. This is just the product of years of fucking up her character and then using her in this way as a catalyst for Theon. It is disgusting. I just truly hope she gets her own back and in a big way. People hate Sansa as it is for being too passive and not being enough of a badass (/tomboy) and this is not going to help. |
|
King Tyrion I
Grumpkin
"I am the God of Tits and Wine!"
Posts: 373
|
Post by King Tyrion I on May 18, 2015 13:18:16 GMT
The scene was disturbing...no, I don't expect some people to like it. Hell, I didn't like watching it. My point, though, is not that- my point is that it was always going to happen. And that it was more tasteful and better depicted than the parallel scene with Jeyne Poole in the books, which was downright disgusting. The show toned it down A LOT. Seconded again. I didn't like to watch it either. Sansa's still a favorite character of mine since season 1 and book 1 respectively. I just reread the chapters in ADwD where Jeyne tells us (and her rescuer) what happened to her and the wedding night. It was far more brutal and disturbing, and I'm not that easily disgusted. After all, I've seen my share of decubiti and ulcera and the like. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 13:39:45 GMT
God knows I have the reputation of being a "show apologist" and "D&D lover," but that scene was absolutely not necessary. It was the consequence of a narrative choice that they'd apparently been planning since season 2. The only reason the rape "was necessary" is because the show runners made it a driving part of Sansa's plot. Hardly anything in this story is necessary when we put it that way. Was it necessary to have Oberyn's head explode? He could have died offscreen in a bloodless edit and the same point would have been made. There isn't a single rape scene in a tv show I can think of that hasn't been accused of being exploitative or unnecessary by most people. Frankly, we still don't have really know what the consequences of this scene are, it seems early to me to be saying it wasn't necessary. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 13:57:33 GMT
It was hard to watch and gross, but thankfully it wasn't as graphic as what happened to Jeyne. Brace yourselves, online outrage is coming. People are already claiming this is about Theon and not Sansa. It IS
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 14:03:13 GMT
Sansa getting raped doesn't make this a bad episode. It's a terrible thing, yes- but necessary to the story. It would have been disingenuous of the show to not have that scene in some way, and it was tastefully shot and beautifully acted. Did it need to happen? Yes- in this version of the story, it did, because now it sets the stakes higher than ever for Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Brienne, Pod and Stannis. If this had been a serving girl pretending to be Arya, people would have been "yuck" but wouldn't have cared very much. The audience is now fully invested in Sansa's storyline- which I don't think would have happened had they stayed with the HtH plot. How will this play out? I don't know...but I'm going to let it play out before I jump to conclusions. And as far as Vanity Fair goes, I've read several reviews this morning saying the scene was very well done, so I guess this will be another "controversy" for the media outlets to feed on. Makes for better clickbait, I guess. This so much. My thoughts... um.. Well I cried. But MIND YOU, I cried for Theon because he had to watch it, not for Sansa who had to feel it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 14:03:15 GMT
|
|
sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
Posts: 354
|
Post by sj4iy on May 18, 2015 14:03:25 GMT
It was hard to watch and gross, but thankfully it wasn't as graphic as what happened to Jeyne. Brace yourselves, online outrage is coming. People are already claiming this is about Theon and not Sansa. It IS
It's about both of them. Both are victims. Now we'll see whether the victims band together and overthrow their tormentors. |
|
|
|
Post by Basil on May 18, 2015 14:03:30 GMT
I hated it.
I suppose the thing about it that I hated most is the fact, that Sansa in the books is in a pretty good place right now. She's learning how to play the game, how to manipulate others and how to survive, basically. She has been through enough torment in the first three books, she has suffered both mentally and physically, but now she has finally regained some control over her life, at least to a certain extent.
In the show, they have turned Sansa into a victim again. A prisoner in her own home. Having Ramsay rape her is probably the worst thing that has ever happened to her and it happens right after she had finally escaped victimhood in King's Landing. Remember the scene last season, where Sansa lied to the Lords of the Vale? It's not what happens in the books, but it's awesome nonetheless, because finally, after all these seasons, Sansa has learned to play the game. Or how about the first appearance of 'Dark Sansa'? I mean, it was cheesy as hell, but at least she wasn't a victim anymore.
But no, why bother with having a more subtle and slow paced storyline, which would actually lead to some character development. It's just Sansa, who cares about her, right? She's not as badass as Arya, so what good is she for anyway? Let's just turn her into another victim. Seriously, what the fuck are the writers thinking?
And of course, the rape happened in Winterfell. They have simultaneously defiled Winterfell and destroyed Sansa's (and the viewer's) romanticised image of the home of House Stark, the place Sansa paid tribute to in Book 3 by building a snow castle. It's just the fort of the Boltons now, nothing more, where Ramsay violently took Sansa's maidenhood. Great work, guys! But hey, Ramsay is kinda funny in a weird way, right? So it's all good, I guess ...
David and Dan, man, they really value the shock factor of any given event more than anything else. And they freaking love their villainous characters. It's enough, guys. Bad things happen in the books as well but, man ... most of the time there is some reason behind it, something that actually progresses the story or leads to character developement. They killed Selmy for the sake of killing a character, Game of Thrones is turning into The Walking Dead, in that regard. Stop freaking torturing the 'good guys', let's have something 'good' happen to House Stark for a change, alright?
And they have gotten rid of Stoneheart, the one character who could provide us with at least a little bit of satisfaction and retribution.
|
|
