Sansa-Ramsay Scene: Your Thoughts?

Best thing I've seen on this yet, thanks!

Well, it's taken me a while to get through this thread (too much RL stuff) and there have been a few predictable reactions as well as some interesting theories about why and where we go from here. So this is my two cents.

I think this scene was hard to watch and meant to create discomfort in the viewers. I have to wonder why the show chose to go there given the flack they've gotten for prior scenes of dubious and/or no consent. Did they have a really good reason? This brings me to one of the theories posted here - HtH will rape Sansa in WoW. Oh, and before I go any further, Elio said he'd read a Sansa chapter that he thought would be controversial for the Lemoncake fans. After it was released he explained he thought Sansa's willingness to follow LF plan and agree to marry HtH, flirt and geniunely try to win him over with nary a thought of the Hound would upset Sansan fans. So, yes, we've read the chapter he was talking about but who's to say what's waiting for Sansa in later chapters? Could there be more challenges? More than likely but I really think if Sansa beds HtH and he turns out to be a jerk, it won't be positioned as her being a victim again. Which brings me to the first of my thoughts on the Ramsey bedding. It didn't make Sansa a victim.

I don't deny that she wasn't hurt but agency doesn't mean you will never be hurt again or that you will always have the upper hand in all situations. Having agency and not being a victim means making choices and being in control of your life. Sansa made a choice to bed a man she despised in order to obtain a goal. She would never have expected a sweet romantic honeymoon although I doubt she thought it would be as bad as it was. In any case, I think Sansa will see this as a necessary chasm she needed to cross in order to get to the place she wants to be. That puts the onus of the act on Ramsey being evil to her not on her being weak or a perpetual victim.

Next, lots of people say this scene was about Theon. I vehemently disagree. It was about Sansa and her arc. She's been showing a completely different side of her that is a whole lot stronger and confident than the Sansa of KL. She'll continue to do this and will most likely see this as another thing thrown at her for her to overcome. I think she will be the one to plan the next moves. We already have her telling Theon, I still have friends in the North. I don't know if she'll be successful in overthrowing the Boltons - she may need to flee before she has a chance to do much damage. But she will try. That much I'm sure of and it won't be Theon convincing her of anything but rather her plotting things.

Finally, there's the discussion about all the discussion. Was there ever any thought that there wouldn't be? Sansa fans are extremely loyal and it's a no brainer that they're angry. That shouldn't be upsetting. Sansa has a special place with her fans and they're protective of her. There would most definitely not be this level of outrage for any other rape but again, that's to be expected of harm befalling Sansa. Given all she's been through and the fact that she's not in this situation in the books, it's entirely understandable. As I mentioned earlier, I'd be very surprised if she faces anything exactly like this in the books but she may very well march bravely into a bedding with HtH that she has no desire to complete but sees it as another step in her (and LF's) plans. That may definitely be in her future and would probably fuel the fire of this controversy even more. We'll see how her story plays out in the books. I personally can't wait.

BTW has anyone linked this on AFOIAF, WOTW or on ASOIAF reddit? I think it could convince some of the more reasonable posters on those sites to reconsider some of their responses to the scene in question. The trick, it seems, is to out-feminist them.

I just ventured over into the Ruins of Valyria (AFOIAF) and it turns out that Ran/Elio himself was linking and circulating that very article. Defending storylines makes for strange bedfellows it seems.

We're getting closer to the next episode which hopefully gets people over the hump as well. I realize it's a scene that certainly needs to be discussed and processed but there's still a healthy chunk of this storyline still to come which I'm really looking forward to.

Hopefully a lot of the outrage dies down (there's still meta arguing about consequences of the use of rape, etc I suppose) once we have more development of what's happening between Sansa and Theon and the pieces of the puzzle coming together and converging on Winterfell in the next couple of episodes. I'm looking forward to it but more cautiously than before.

Not saying this was the worst episode of the show, but what would you say is the worst? 2x02 "The Night Lands"?

I thought the Night Lands had some good moments, like Theon's arrival on Pyke, Salladhor Saan's debut and Janos Slynt sent to the Wall. The only bad scenes were Jon's and Dany's, while the others were a bit meh. The biggest problem of the episode is that there were too many storylines. It was boring, but I still think this last one was worse. It's hard to say which was the worst episode of the whole show.

Oh yes, with him cleaning the semen from the whore's mouth, who proceed to kiss another client. That was indeed a disgusting moment that one could actually say that was for "shock value"