valyrianshadow
Snark 
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Posts: 943 
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 11, 2015 23:27:23 GMT
^^^ Yeah I'm losing hope on this 2016 business. I'm thinking 2017. I'd say if I were him I'd want to get it over with so everyone would stop bugging me but I'm not him. He can do what he wants. Everyone knows we're getting the ending in show form first. It sucks and I wish we were waiting for ADOS right now instead of TWOW but I'm not mad. There's nothing we can do. The books are GRRMs hands. I think we'll get his ending in time, and hopefully it's worth it. Too bad the show will ruin most of it. "Ruin" is a pretty harsh word. I started reading after I watched Season 4 though, so I'm more invested in the show. Eh I guess ruin is the wrong word. Spoiled, more like.  |
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Post by jonishenrytudor on May 12, 2015 22:22:48 GMT
I don't even want to imagine how long it's going to take him to write ADOS. He won't have several left over DWD chapters to work with there. I'm of the mind that he may be working on both TWOW and ADOS all at once, or.........getting over the first hurdle should help him speed through the next. That's my delusion and I'm sticking to it. ~sticks fingers in ears, singing lalalalalalalala~ Well why not. He did publish the first three books two years apart. Anything is possible, and we really have no idea what Martin has completed at the moment. For all we know, he could have sent the final draft to Bantam, and our announcement of WoW will be right before the release date. Considering the blunder made on the DwD announcements, it is possible that he is attempting to redeem himself with a bit of a surprise. I know it is all wishful thinking, but I can't help but believe that he would want to tell the end of his life's work, not allow HBO to have that glory. Even if HBO tells it differently, they still hold that honor regardless of the changes. I have to believe Martin wants to avoid that. Maybe he does not care, but I find it hard to swallow that pill. |
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Post by mattpeto on May 14, 2015 11:14:21 GMT
I'm of the mind that he may be working on both TWOW and ADOS all at once, or.........getting over the first hurdle should help him speed through the next. That's my delusion and I'm sticking to it. ~sticks fingers in ears, singing lalalalalalalala~ Well why not. He did publish the first three books two years apart. Anything is possible, and we really have no idea what Martin has completed at the moment. For all we know, he could have sent the final draft to Bantam, and our announcement of WoW will be right before the release date. Considering the blunder made on the DwD announcements, it is possible that he is attempting to redeem himself with a bit of a surprise. I know it is all wishful thinking, but I can't help but believe that he would want to tell the end of his life's work, not allow HBO to have that glory. Even if HBO tells it differently, they still hold that honor regardless of the changes. I have to believe Martin wants to avoid that. Maybe he does not care, but I find it hard to swallow that pill. He calls TWOW the "Son of Kong". I'm sure it's massive and the largest in the series to date. Kong will be ADOS and will probably larger. We're not getting them at the same time. Or ever. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 11:29:09 GMT
Well why not. He did publish the first three books two years apart. Anything is possible, and we really have no idea what Martin has completed at the moment. For all we know, he could have sent the final draft to Bantam, and our announcement of WoW will be right before the release date. Considering the blunder made on the DwD announcements, it is possible that he is attempting to redeem himself with a bit of a surprise. I know it is all wishful thinking, but I can't help but believe that he would want to tell the end of his life's work, not allow HBO to have that glory. Even if HBO tells it differently, they still hold that honor regardless of the changes. I have to believe Martin wants to avoid that. Maybe he does not care, but I find it hard to swallow that pill. He calls TWOW the "Son of Kong". I'm sure it's massive and the largest in the series to date. Kong will be ADOS and will probably larger. We're not getting them at the same time. Or ever.I believe Kong was ADWD. He posted a photo of a dead King Kong when he finished it  |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 11:42:16 GMT
TWoW: Early 2016
ADoS: 2019?
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Post by mattpeto on May 14, 2015 11:48:46 GMT
He calls TWOW the "Son of Kong". I'm sure it's massive and the largest in the series to date. Kong will be ADOS and will probably larger. We're not getting them at the same time. Or ever.I believe Kong was ADWD. He posted a photo of a dead King Kong when he finished it Haha, yeah you're right, I recall that now. And just for kicks I googled it. This blog entry was from: June 1st, 20 11 |
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Post by Enid on May 14, 2015 19:15:45 GMT
I think early 2016 for TWOW if he works on it non-stop and doesn't edit too much, but honestly I think it's possible the show will end before he publishes another ASOIAF book.
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Post by DonStupid on May 15, 2015 10:32:53 GMT
the issue is that with ADWD he kept sending 'draft' and 'finished' manuscript pages to his publisher. That way it was constantly edited and they could release the book very quickly when it finally was finished. Now he only send ~ 168 pages to his editor. It means that the editing process will take the normal ~ 6 months (any experts here on that?). So early 2016 is very optimistic. It is also known that whenever George gets close to finishing a book he starts discussing it more on NAB. Since that hasn't happened (on the contrary -- WoW updates have become less regular, if you can believe that possible), I would consider it unlikely.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 10:37:17 GMT
the issue is that with ADWD he kept sending 'draft' and 'finished' manuscript pages to his publisher. That way it was constantly edited and they could release the book very quickly when it finally was finished. Now he only send ~ 168 pages to his editor. It means that the editing process will take the normal ~ 6 months (any experts here on that?). So early 2016 is very optimistic. It is also known that whenever George gets close to finishing a book he starts discussing it more on NAB. Since that hasn't happened (on the contrary -- WoW updates have become less regular, if you can believe that possible), I would consider it unlikely. Is it? Because the only book he's finished while he's had his blog is ADWD and we all know his approach to TWOW is very different |
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Post by Enid on May 15, 2015 12:19:15 GMT
the issue is that with ADWD he kept sending 'draft' and 'finished' manuscript pages to his publisher. That way it was constantly edited and they could release the book very quickly when it finally was finished. Now he only send ~ 168 pages to his editor. It means that the editing process will take the normal ~ 6 months (any experts here on that?). So early 2016 is very optimistic. It is also known that whenever George gets close to finishing a book he starts discussing it more on NAB. Since that hasn't happened (on the contrary -- WoW updates have become less regular, if you can believe that possible), I would consider it unlikely. I disagree about ADWD being edited, at least properly, I like parts of the book, but is pretty obvious it was barely edited before publishing. It could have used less focus on descriptions and a faster pace, not that I love things boiling for a while until they suddenly explode, but in ADWD it felt like things took to long, and the biggest editorial decision we know took place (cutting the battles of Winterfell and Mereen) didn't help at all. Also I'm re-reading it now, and the "must needs" have to die. Honestly I don't know how much GRRM has written, it's impossible to know due to his "no update until it's finished" policy, he may have delivered 168 finished pages, but he could have way more than that, or not. IMO his editors will pressure him to finish TWOW before the show ends, which is why I think early 2016 is not completely impossible if GRRM works fast and they don't edit it much, they will probably want to release it before GOT sixth season just to avoid the show spoiling the books, and also to use the hype of a new season to promote TWOW, similar to what they did with ADWD (publishing right after the first season ended, even though the text could have used more editing before hitting the shelves). So my theory is: Early 2016 if GRRM delivers a finished manuscript and they don't edit it much, to get ahead of the show again and to use GOT's popularity to promote the book. Very late 2016, or 2017 if GRRM doesn't finish the book before this year ends, making it impossible to publish it ahead of GOT's new season. The good thing is that it would allow TWOW to go through a normal editing process, which is something ADWD lacks. |
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Post by mattpeto on May 15, 2015 13:00:59 GMT
His only motivation at this point is to finish book #6 before the next season airs. If we don't get it before Season 6, we may never get these books. I think his grand plan should be this: - Finish TWOW before Season 6, which frees up his time to:
- Write 2 or 3 episodes for Season 7, including the series finale
- Finish ADOS
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Post by DonStupid on May 15, 2015 14:08:52 GMT
I disagree about ADWD being edited, at least properly, I like parts of the book, but is pretty obvious it was barely edited before publishing. It could have used less focus on descriptions and a faster pace, not that I love things boiling for a while until they suddenly explode, but in ADWD it felt like things took to long, and the biggest editorial decision we know took place (cutting the battles of Winterfell and Mereen) didn't help at all. Also I'm re-reading it now, and the "must needs" have to die. Indeed ADWD was the weakest of the books regarding prose (even though AFFC was more boring, the writing was top notch, IMHO). However, this is not a problem of the editor but of Martin himself. See e.g. reddit cushing library . His writing style just changed, as he indicated himself that 'plot is but one aspect of writing and not the most important part' (paraphrasing here). He just loves his (food) descriptions and travologues (/world building) and details ... Indeed Fire And Blood, I was referring to ADWD  . I hope it will be different now ... |
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Post by unicornshoes on May 15, 2015 19:53:55 GMT
This is a great convo, how did I miss it before now? My family are all literature nuts. I grew up in a public library as my Grandmother was lead librarian for 25 years. I have a professional author Uncle and he gave me some insight on how writers operate. Like artists, they often have highs and lows in their writing periods. Sometimes you're inspired, and sometimes you're not. However, he did say that when he's actively on the internet posting a lot, surfing facebook and blogs and writing small articles, that's actually when his brain is 'in the zone' so to speak and he's working. He says it helps him write to surf around the web until the right words for a particularly difficult paragraph or dialogue comes to him. I now know that when I see my uncle sending us email jokes and posting funny photos on his facebook page, he's actually in the middle of a writing binge... So take that for what it's worth. I have no idea if Mr. Martin is the same way but it could be a clue that if he's posting a lot on his blog or ranting about seemingly off topic things (Hugo awards), he actually is AT his computer and writing quite actively. Remember, a post on a blog only takes 20-30 minutes to compose for a good writer who writes daily so seeing a lot of posts doesn't mean that's the only thing he's sitting there doing for 8 hours a day. Also, almost all good authors I have read about their personal lives admit to having terrible insomnia (the brain doesn't like to shut off when it needs to while actively thinking/writing) - it also runs in my writing family! I would not be surprised at all if George does a lot of his real writing very late at night or very early in the wee hours of the morning and sleeps in between times which is also brain slug-mode when he surfs the net. That's my completely unsolicited and unprofessional assessment of Mr. Martin's writing issues. I think his recent spout of internet activity means he's wrapping things up and actually on his computer a lot. He's not making appearances or traveling or whatnot so that's good news for concentration. Every time he goes on a trip, makes appearances etc. he is distracted and not in the zone. As for the predictions, that's tough. I'm going to say sometime in the first quarter of 2016. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (Westeros? IWC?) that George writes on an ancient word processor so he might not be writing while surfing the net because it's two different machines and at this point I feel he's just gotten lazy. That being said some of my new friends at IWC? will tell you that we will NEVER see books 6 &7 because GRRM has lost his passion to write the damn things. I, however, feel that we'll get the book when we get the damn book. If I'm feeling pressured to do something I have this nasty habit of 'showing' P-) people by not fucking doing it; maybe he's like that? Every show I've seen him on between the S4 & S5 he keeps popping up with "They're not gonna catch me cuz there's plenty in books 4 & 5 they have to tell you"; sorry George...all that fluff doesn't translate well to the idiot box so it gets cut. I remember my dad waiting for Stephen King to finish the Dark Tower series (my house was not pleasant when Steve got hit by the van..."Now he'll never finish those damn books...ggggrrrrrr...) and once he did dad HATED the last one; I'm not sure why I haven't finished it and I really need to just start over. I don't want George to finish the books just to finish them I want well written books to finish the story. This means that he must take his time and keep fucking Ralinda away from them because of the fuckness that was ADWD after their 'fact checking continuity' bullshit! TL;DL When he's done he'll publish. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 20:06:43 GMT
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (Westeros? IWC?) that George writes on an ancient word processor so he might not be writing while surfing the net because it's two different machines and at this point I feel he's just gotten lazy. That being said some of my new friends at IWC? will tell you that we will NEVER see books 6 &7 because GRRM has lost his passion to write the damn things. I, however, feel that we'll get the book when we get the damn book. If I'm feeling pressured to do something I have this nasty habit of 'showing' P-) people by not fucking doing it; maybe he's like that? Every show I've seen him on between the S4 & S5 he keeps popping up with "They're not gonna catch me cuz there's plenty in books 4 & 5 they have to tell you"; sorry George...all that fluff doesn't translate well to the idiot box so it gets cut. I remember my dad waiting for Stephen King to finish the Dark Tower series (my house was not pleasant when Steve got hit by the van..."Now he'll never finish those damn books...ggggrrrrrr...) and once he did dad HATED the last one; I'm not sure why I haven't finished it and I really need to just start over. I don't want George to finish the books just to finish them I want well written books to finish the story. This means that he must take his time and keep fucking Ralinda away from them because of the fuckness that was ADWD after their 'fact checking continuity' bullshit! TL;DL When he's done he'll publish. Nicely said. I only pray this isn't a repeat of what happened with Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time series.  Mr. Martin is by far a better writer overall but even great writers can just go on too long with something. If George has lost any motivation over the years, I partially blame the popularity of the show for a little of that. It's distracted him and put him in an entirely different frame of mind with tours, interviews, panels, episode writing, etc. I urge people all the time to remember how long we had to wait between AFFC and ADWD for all the good that does... and those were two books that should have been merged as one with the parallel storyline anyways! |
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Post by unicornshoes on May 15, 2015 20:29:49 GMT
Nicely said. I only pray this isn't a repeat of what happened with Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time series. Mr. Martin is by far a better writer overall but even great writers can just go on too long with something. If George has lost any motivation over the years, I partially blame the popularity of the show for a little of that. It's distracted him and put him in an entirely different frame of mind with tours, interviews, panels, episode writing, etc. I urge people all the time to remember how long we had to wait between AFFC and ADWD for all the good that does... and those were two books that should have been merged as one with the parallel storyline anyways! Thanks! I haven't read WoT, my mom did and she came in at the very end; she didn't start reading them until Jordan had passed and Sanderson had already written one. At Westeros that talk is verboten but since life is a crap shoot it could happen, it could have happened after GoT! I'm not gonna say I'm not disappointed in the length of the wait because I am; but I also realize that writing is an art and it has a process. I want a GOOD book not just a book but I also want it before I hit menopause and if that makes Neil Gaiman think that I think GRRM is my bitch then so be it! And NO FUCKING RALINDA!!! I just can't stress that enough!!!!  |
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Post by jonishenrytudor on May 16, 2015 16:41:14 GMT
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (Westeros? IWC?) that George writes on an ancient word processor so he might not be writing while surfing the net because it's two different machines and at this point I feel he's just gotten lazy. That being said some of my new friends at IWC? will tell you that we will NEVER see books 6 &7 because GRRM has lost his passion to write the damn things. I, however, feel that we'll get the book when we get the damn book. If I'm feeling pressured to do something I have this nasty habit of 'showing' P-) people by not fucking doing it; maybe he's like that? Every show I've seen him on between the S4 & S5 he keeps popping up with "They're not gonna catch me cuz there's plenty in books 4 & 5 they have to tell you"; sorry George...all that fluff doesn't translate well to the idiot box so it gets cut. I remember my dad waiting for Stephen King to finish the Dark Tower series (my house was not pleasant when Steve got hit by the van..."Now he'll never finish those damn books...ggggrrrrrr...) and once he did dad HATED the last one; I'm not sure why I haven't finished it and I really need to just start over. I don't want George to finish the books just to finish them I want well written books to finish the story. This means that he must take his time and keep fucking Ralinda away from them because of the fuckness that was ADWD after their 'fact checking continuity' bullshit! TL;DL When he's done he'll publish. Nicely said. I only pray this isn't a repeat of what happened with Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time series. Mr. Martin is by far a better writer overall but even great writers can just go on too long with something. If George has lost any motivation over the years, I partially blame the popularity of the show for a little of that. It's distracted him and put him in an entirely different frame of mind with tours, interviews, panels, episode writing, etc. I urge people all the time to remember how long we had to wait between AFFC and ADWD for all the good that does... and those were two books that should have been merged as one with the parallel storyline anyways! To be honest, I can do the wait. I have been waiting for "The Stone Doors" (if I got the title right...) from Rothfuss for about the same time. My problem is not the wait as much as it is Martin wasting time doing other things like wildcards and various side projects. He made a deal for the show and instead of giving his long time fans the ending from him, we will likely get it from HBO. I won't watch the next two seasons, and this season is already riddled with spoilers. Basically I, as well as others, have to either accept HBO spoiling things or take extreme measures to ensure we are not spoiled. I can wait 5 years for a novel. I would have no issue with WoW coming out at the end of this year or next year followed by DoS in a few years. And to be honest, DwD created a major problem for Martin, and he has already stated that he should write faster now... DwD was supposed to be a single book, but then it was broken into FfC and DwD. The difference, however, between Rothfuss and Martin is that Rothfuss will give us his ending, HBO will give us Martin's. For me, at least, Martin made an error and allowed greed or popularity to dictate his decisions instead of his fans. Rothfuss supposedly will also have the King Killer Chronicles turned into a tv series on FX, but that won't come until the series is done or the final installment is ready for the publishers block. From my pov, I think this is why some fans are anxious. It is really difficult to feel sympathetic for an author who is always seen on the HBO set, writing episodes, writing side projects, etc. It is his life, he can do as he likes; but at the same time he can't fault his longtime fans for becoming restless. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 1:59:05 GMT
Well you're a much stronger person than I, to have the discipline to walk away from the TV series after 5 seasons and agree not to spoil it for yourself from there on out until the next book is released. I thought about that, and knew I'd never be able to resist. The lure of immersion into Mr. Martin's world, in any way, draws me back to the show even when I'm frustrated by it. I love the scenery and costumes and actors so it's just all the eye-candy I can't stand missing even if the plot mystery is going to drive everyone mad!
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Post by mattpeto on May 19, 2015 19:16:33 GMT
He's reading a Winds chapter at the Kansas City convention on 5/22 or 5/23. He didn't indicate if it's a new chapter yet, however.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 19:26:13 GMT
I would bet real fucking money that if it's not a previously released chapter it's one that was pushed from ADWD to TWOW.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 19:30:55 GMT
Almost certainly. Can't wait to find out what happened to Damphair! Finally the question of whether or not a godless man may sit the seastone chair will be answered.
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. I hope it will be different now ...
Mr. Martin is by far a better writer overall but even great writers can just go on too long with something. If George has lost any motivation over the years, I partially blame the popularity of the show for a little of that. It's distracted him and put him in an entirely different frame of mind with tours, interviews, panels, episode writing, etc. 