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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:46:23 GMT
I don't think anyone claims he should be working on it constantly. But it'd be nice for the fans to have at least some evidence he's been writing (I don't count the preview chapters, they were probably all written for Dance), because otherwise it seems to me he spends all his time running his cinema, posting about right wing controversies and the NBA and going to conventions.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:49:33 GMT
I think George just needs to find a happy medium. I wasn't around during the ADWD mess so I have no idea what that was like, but I can't imagine fans were very happy with him with constant delays and comments about how he expected to be finished by x date, only to still not have finished 3 years later. Now he's doing the other extreme in just not saying anything, which is pissing people off in different ways because now they don't think he cares or some even think he isn't even doing anything.
Maybe just once a month or so say something like "made some progress, I've written about 3 chapters" or "slow month, got a few chapters out but wasn't happy". Just very straight and factual without any promises or anything.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:53:23 GMT
Yes, that would satisfy more people I think. No promises or deadlines, just progress reports. That said, I suspect part of the reason he isn't doing that is that he isn't working on it all, or at least very little. But that may be my pessimism at work.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:56:14 GMT
Yes, that would satisfy more people I think. No promises or deadlines, just progress reports. That said, I suspect part of the reason he isn't doing that is that he isn't working on it all, or at least very little. But that may be my pessimism at work. I think that's just your pessimism He has said he's working on it several times recently so he's definitely working on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:59:10 GMT
I tend to not place all that much stock in GRRM's word. He does have a lot of incentive to be telling fans he's working on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 21:01:39 GMT
True, but he also has a lot of pressure on his back. His publishers, HBO and the fans all want him to finish the books. That's too much for me to believe he just isn't working on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 21:06:19 GMT
Ah, but we're at the point now where it is impossible for him to finish both books before the show ends. Perhaps that took the wind entirely out of his sails (assuming he had sails up to that point).
Also, HBO seem to essentially be satisfied with the notes he's given them, and they're cutting so much I can't see them using much TWOW material, so not too much pressure there. The publishers essentially let him do whatever he wants now, he makes them so much money they can't complain too much about the pace. The fans are the main pressure, but I don't get the feeling that worries him too much. After all, there are still people who tell him to take his time, even at this point
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Post by flintstonebearer on May 6, 2015 23:57:36 GMT
True, but he also has a lot of pressure on his back. His publishers, HBO and the fans all want him to finish the books. That's too much for me to believe he just isn't working on it. The question unfortunately is: At what rhythm ? I have followed this discussion for the last five years (because I signed out of aSoIaF between 2005 and 2010) and some IWC first-hour veterans can piece this together since...2006 or so. Almost in detail. He says he needs very specific conditions to be able to concentrate, sit down and write...slowly. Most of the time, these conditions seem not to be met. He has to hammer out 1500 pages of a primary draft to be submitted to A. Groell. That primary draft, besides being written, may be rewritten (that was one of the problems with aDwD - he kept rewriting sections of the books for years). Nobody knows how much has been put on paper. Even if he is halfway or two-thirds done, highly unlikely he´ll wrap up the rest in the next 12 months. Worse - to get the book out in time for S6, he has to submit in 6 months latest for this to be publishable. This is why it will NOT be released this year. He would have to submit about now - and we would hear about that. From the publishing house. Unfortunately. Martin is highly dispersive, he explicitly admitted he loses interest in a story when he has to follow a specific outline to finish it off. His *exploits* on NAB show the same pattern: He dives into side projects which then seem to spawn other side projects. Not a good perspective. You are right that there is more pressure now, because of the success of GoT. Maybe it´ll make him speed up. But the precedent is not very promising.
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Post by mattpeto on May 7, 2015 12:12:50 GMT
My exchange with GRRM yesterday about legitimate frustration from his fans: May. 6th, 2015 08:37 pm (UTC) RE: Enthusiasm No doubt, that you created something that carries legendary status to you and your fans.
Your fans want these books so bad that anything else you do seems to be an opportunity lost to finishing your magnum opus. It's not fair to you, but your brilliancy has also come with a cost: we want you to write ASOIAF.
We also really wanted to hear your ending before the show does and this is not going to happen. It's a shame to think that we are going to get some of your biggest spoilers from the show first (like Jon Snow's parentage or the serious plotlines aftermath from ADWD). Not that we don't love the show too, but this is your kingdom and it would be better coming from the creator.
We still are hoping to get TWOW in our hands before season 6, but it's not a leap of faith to say that you are a distracted man - and we get it.
I just think it's reasonable to understand the fans frustration as well.
Keep up the great work. I also think your blog opens the door to criticism like this and again, it's probably unfair. I think it's great you communicate with your fans.
And please don't kill a Stark because of me.GRRM's response:May. 6th, 2015 10:01 pm (UTC) Re: Enthusiasm If there is one thing I understand, it is frustration... yours, mine, everyone's.
My life has gotten extremely complicated, I must admit. There are not enough hours in the day, there are not enough days in the week.
And saddest of all, I do not have the stamina I did when I was thirty. Aging sucks.
There's no magic formula here. I just keep at it, the way I always have. One page at a time. One sentence at a time. One word at a time.SourceVery classy response from him IMO.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 14:12:12 GMT
Classy and canned. He's said everything in that post before over the last decade or so almost verbatim -- except the part about age slowing him down a bit. Unlike his previous excuses for past delays, I sympathize with him this time around.
On to my lead-pipe lock for a release of TWOW. Spring 2016. By the end of this year, Martin's publisher is going to pry whatever Martin has managed to write from his WordStar, slap a huge "The Inspiration Behind HBO's Hit Series, A Game of Thrones" sticker on it and shove it out the door right before the series premier.
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Post by day dreamer on May 7, 2015 14:46:55 GMT
Indeed classy, but also sad. I feel like the ending definitely isn't in sight for him. And what if WoW and DoS don't finish it up the way he wants? What if he ends up needing another book?
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Post by mattpeto on May 7, 2015 15:32:40 GMT
I think we just have to accept that we aren't getting the books and the ending of our beloved series will only arrive on show format.
We know he's not writing an episode for S6 and didn't for S5. This time next year, he should keep his calendar open and pen the series finale (and multiple episodes) to let him put his mark on the ending. I think that has a realistic chance.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 16:16:21 GMT
Unfortunately (for GRRM, I'd rather D&D write the episodes), there's no way D&D will let him write multiple episodes of the finale seasons. It's their baby, they'll want to finish it off on their terms.
And I agree with Atreyu. There's little he's saying there that he hasn't said before. Though I have to laugh at his "not enough hours in the day" spiel. You go significant amounts of time without writing George, or writing other things, and while that's fine, it's your life, you could have been using that time on the books. Got nothing to do with complications.
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Post by kingeomer on May 7, 2015 22:07:47 GMT
His response to you was very classy. I know it's a variation of what he's said before. But honestly, before the show was green lighted they had to know that this issue was going to crop up. When the show debuted he was about 5 years past his last book in the series. This is not Outlander, which is on it's first season and the author has just released her 8th book and is planning to end it within the next book or two and seems to put out a new book every 2-3 years. Unless she has a major dry writing spell or the show ends in 4-5 seasons, there is no way that show will spoil her ending. Actors on GoT have been saying in interviews as far back as season 3 that the show will finish before the books. I'll watch. And I'll still read because I know the show cannot give me the depth that GRRM gives in his story. So, while yes, I'd rather the ending come from him, I am okay with the show getting there first.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 22:25:21 GMT
I don't think they did know. When the series was green lit by HBO it was 2006, and Feast had just been released, D&D could not have known it was going be an issue. The wait for FFC was an anomaly (and he'd scrapped a significant amount of material because of the 5 year gap). What's more is that GRRM said in 2005 he'd finish Dance next year, so the release seemed imminent, and he would have had plenty of time to finish the last two.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 22:27:31 GMT
I don't think they did know. When the series was green lit by HBO it was 2006, and Feast had just been released, D&D could not have known it was going be an issue. The wait for FFC was an anomaly (and he'd scrapped a significant amount of material because of the 5 year gap). What's more is that GRRM said in 2005 he'd finish Dance next year, so the release seemed imminent, and he would have had plenty of time to finish the last two. I almost want to say that you're avatar is a symbol for George's pace.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 22:40:52 GMT
Ha! It does fit. Though I think a more accurate portrayal would be if the snail had just been run over by a van
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Post by DonStupid on May 8, 2015 15:12:25 GMT
Hey all ...
I have been reading ASOIAF since the early 2000's and I can remember the long waits for AFFC and ADWD like yesterday (it was a hilarious time with the rise of detractordom). Unfortunately I think Martin was working harder then than now. I haven't lost complete hope but I do think it will be 2017 before we can read the next book. With enough money and hobbeys, there is just not enough motivation to finish the books.
anyway, there is always GOT! (just amazing how they cut the bloat of AFFC & ADWD -- it is not all good, but super better paced)
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valyrianshadow
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 11, 2015 22:54:05 GMT
^^^ Yeah I'm losing hope on this 2016 business. I'm thinking 2017. I'd say if I were him I'd want to get it over with so everyone would stop bugging me but I'm not him. He can do what he wants.
Everyone knows we're getting the ending in show form first. It sucks and I wish we were waiting for ADOS right now instead of TWOW but I'm not mad. There's nothing we can do. The books are GRRMs hands. I think we'll get his ending in time, and hopefully it's worth it. Too bad the show will ruin most of it.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 23:25:09 GMT
^^^ Yeah I'm losing hope on this 2016 business. I'm thinking 2017. I'd say if I were him I'd want to get it over with so everyone would stop bugging me but I'm not him. He can do what he wants. Everyone knows we're getting the ending in show form first. It sucks and I wish we were waiting for ADOS right now instead of TWOW but I'm not mad. There's nothing we can do. The books are GRRMs hands. I think we'll get his ending in time, and hopefully it's worth it. Too bad the show will ruin most of it. "Ruin" is a pretty harsh word. I started reading after I watched Season 4 though, so I'm more invested in the show.
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