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Post by Basil on May 20, 2019 12:20:10 GMT
It's not, but nothing about Westeros is. I'm just saying, in the eyes of the people, the Night's Watch has a function ... but it's not to protect the realms of men from a treat that most don't even believe exists. It's basically prison. My frustration is that every character turned out too boneheaded to learn anything from this story. The North is the only Kingdom that saw the Long Night but they were the only ones sending people to the Night's Watch anyway. Jon of all people could have taken this opportunity to legitimize all bastards in the Kingdom and end the Night's Watch or at least come of up with an altruistic purpose for it. What I got instead was unsatisfying. Can't argue with that. My ídeal ending for such a monumental story would have been some form of radical change for Westeros, which, I think, could have been achieved had they not decided to turn Dany into Dragon Hitler. There were some baby steps towards that direction in this episode, with the lords actually voting on who should be the next king ... but I definitely wish it had been a bit more radical. The burning of the Iron Throne was a powerful visual, but at the end of the day, didn't really mean much as Westeros remains the feudalistic hell it's always been.
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Post by Basil on May 20, 2019 12:29:28 GMT
Remember when we all thought R+L=J actually mattered and Dany and Jon would rule together. HAHAHAHAHA.
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 20, 2019 12:32:45 GMT
The idea of Jon or Dany (or both) ruling in the end has always seemed quite naive to me. GRRM wouldn't give the story such a happy ending after 6 and a half books of nihilism.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 12:33:59 GMT
Remember when we all thought R+L=J actually mattered and Dany and Jon would rule together. HAHAHAHAHA. I'm astonished at the amount of things built up for main characters that had no bearing on the plot. Jon being a Targaryen, they didn't even show him reflecting on it. Arya's face changing abilities, no bearing on the plot. Bran becoming the Three Eyed Raven with unlimited knowledge and power, no bearing on the plot. Chekov's gun is a pretty basic yet important element of good storytelling but these writers threw it out the window because their egos have grown out of control from year-after-year of success
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Post by Basil on May 20, 2019 12:47:14 GMT
I never believed that Dany and Jon would actually rule together as king and queen either, to be honest. But I thought that Jon's parentage would definitely play a major role. I had this idea in my mind that Dany would eventually give up on her persuit for the throne for the sake of achieving a greater purpose. That her, Jon, Tyrion and other characters would be instrumental in reshaping Westeros into something better. Maybe that's naive, but to me, that would have been the most satisfying way to end this story, and to give meaning and purpose to the journey of every single character, dead or alive.
Dany having a cruel streak about her has always been intriguing to me. This idea that she does have some of that Targaryen "Fire and Blood"-mentality in her, but is actively fighting against it and is ultimiately able to overcome it. I never thought that they would turn Dany into a straight-up psycho, who is so delusional to actually believe that killing everyone in King's Landing = liberating them. And then wanting to "liberate" the rest of the world as well.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 20, 2019 12:50:33 GMT
Why do we need a Night's Watch now? Honestly, I kind of liked Tyrion's explanation. The world will always need a home for bastards and broken men. But what are they doing now? Like for the past 300 years at least they’ve had the conflict with the Wildlings so what is the point of them now? No WW, no Wildlings. It would make more sense as a prison/labour camp for criminals but really its just a cushy chance to start over again with your crimes wiped clean I'm sorry but I see Sansa as QITN as pure fanservice. If Bran is king, why would the North still want independence? They are being ruled by a Stark anyways. Yep. Marcus Antonious said it too, but why in hells would the other kingdoms accept being ruled by an emotionless robot who provided zero help during the war, failed to provide vital information that could have saved millions amd doesnt even come from the kingdoms he is ruling. I hate Tyrion as Hand. If anyone deserved a happy ending less its him after his terrible advice and treason for the past two seasons. A less convincing delivery of “i don’t want it” is hard to imagine. I also hate the happy endings for all the Starks. Not because i hate the Starks, but because i think the show has turned them into pretty horrible people the last few seasons so i take no satisfaction that they face zero repercussions for their shitty behaviour
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 12:52:39 GMT
I liked the first half of the episode better because it maintained the tone of the previous episode. The second half of the episode with the jokes and winking at the audience(A Song of Ice and Fire) felt horribly out of place considering a main character just committed genocide and was murdered by the person she loved. I mean Jesus, let the story breathe a little.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 20, 2019 12:58:15 GMT
My favourite and most emotional moment of the episode was Drogon reacting to his mother’s death. I mean the roaring at the sky and breathing fire out aimlessly, which felt really powerful. (Him burning the Iron Throne looked so bad, lol) It says a lot about the quality of this episode that the best moment for me was from a tennis ball.
Drogon not burning Jon will never make sense
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Post by MarcusAntonius on May 20, 2019 13:04:07 GMT
I never thought that they would turn Dany into a straight-up psycho, who is so delusional to actually believe that killing everyone in King's Landing = liberating them. And then wanting to "liberate" the rest of the world as well. Yeah it was way too over the top for me.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 13:04:36 GMT
Yes, same for me. The best moment of the episode was Drogon mourning Dany, seeing him nudge her body was the only thing that made me emotional. The show has always done a great job personifying the dragons and making them feel real.
It's a shame that because of the writing I didn't really care about the conclusions of any of the human characters.
It would almost have been better if Bran was Warging Drogon and burning the city against Danny's wishes. Then Jon kills her in a tragic misunderstanding. Bran turns out to have been turned evil by all of his knowledge, it would explain why he did nothing to help anyone through the course of his arc, and eliminated the awkwardness of a 100mph character turn for Dany. They really did her dirty.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 20, 2019 13:10:13 GMT
Yeah they should have started Dany’s madness thing like...three years ago.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 20, 2019 13:10:38 GMT
Not to bring up the elephant in the room but isn't Gendry the heir after being legitimized? Did no one think of that? Do the voting thing if you want, but these are nobles who should be well aware of their succession rules, just please bring it up I'm begging you for the love of good writing.
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Post by Basil on May 20, 2019 13:12:36 GMT
They really did her dirty. They really, really did. That's why I still love her, maybe even more so than before. Because what they had her do and the way they presented her in the last episode (with some good old fascist imagery) feels so wrong for her character, it doesn't even register as canon to me. It's kind of bizarre.
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Post by kingeomer on May 20, 2019 13:20:22 GMT
My favourite and most emotional moment of the episode was Drogon reacting to his mother’s death. I mean the roaring at the sky and breathing fire out aimlessly, which felt really powerful. (Him burning the Iron Throne looked so bad, lol) It says a lot about the quality of this episode that the best moment for me was from a tennis ball. Drogon not burning Jon will never make sense Absolutely my favorite scene, next to Brienne finishing Jaime's write up in the book. Yes, same for me. The best moment of the episode was Drogon mourning Dany, seeing him nudge her body was the only thing that made me emotional. The show has always done a great job personifying the dragons and making them feel real. It's a shame that because of the writing I didn't really care about the conclusions of any of the human characters. It would almost have been better if Bran was Warging Drogon and burning the city against Danny's wishes. Then Jon kills her in a tragic misunderstanding. Bran turns out to have been turned evil by all of his knowledge, it would explain why he did nothing to help anyone through the course of his arc, and eliminated the awkwardness of a 100mph character turn for Dany. They really did her dirty. It would have made for a more interesting ending, that's for sure. Not to bring up the elephant in the room but isn't Gendry the heir after being legitimized? Did no one think of that? Do the voting thing if you want, but these are nobles who should be well aware of their succession rules, just please bring it up I'm begging you for the love of good writing. Dany did legitimize him and I guess they just decided to keep it. They really did her dirty. They really, really did. That's why I still love her, maybe even more so than before. Because what they had her do and the way they presented her in the last episode (with some good old fascist imagery) feels so wrong for her character, it doesn't even register as canon to me. It's kind of bizarre. Dany did basically get shit on this final season. No wonder Emilia said she needed a three hour walk after reading the script. I hope no one minds but I will do a separate post for my review. And I need time to reflect on 8 as a whole.
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Post by kingeomer on May 20, 2019 13:41:27 GMT
Alright my review. I did give it an 8/10. The cinematography was excellent, the music was well used and the acting overcame the weak ass script.
Liked: Tyrion-the scene where he finds the bodies of Jaime and Cersei, his lonely/dazed walk through KL, his speech to the Lords, his talk with Jon. Peter was the MVP of the episode. Brienne-Getting a scene to finish Jaime's write up in the Kingsguard ledger Jon-reuniting with Ghost Sansa-being made Queen of the North with that gorgeous frock but also seeming very world weary by the prospect. Dany-her scene making the speech to her armies. Emilia taking a shit show and making it work. Drogon nudging Dany's body. Sam-advocating for the small folk to have a voice in electing their "king"
Robyn Arryn grew up. Edmure puts in a appearance. Yara's allegiance to Dany was recalled. Call backs to earlier seasons: the moving chairs, love is the death of duty, pissing off the wall...
I guess it was ok- The small council: At least the small council was not filled up with traditional Lords and Ladies of Westeros, though Bronn being there is a mystery to me
Didn't like: The Argument for a A Separate North (as mentioned above, why didn't Yara and the Prince of Dorne ask for the same?). While the North has struggled for independence since Ned's death, wouldn't it have made sense to have Sansa mention to Bran and the others that they lost too many family members in the south (grandfather, uncle, aunt, father, mother and brother) and that their brother and mother died for Northern Independence. Of course the other lands could make the same argument. Sam's idea of letting the small folk have a say in their ruler being laughed off: HAVE YOU PEOPLE LEARNED NOTHING? King Bran the Broken, first of name king of the Andals and First Men (BLAH BLAH): I can see why this choice was made, Bran is not the Bran we met in season 1. He seems to have loyalty to no house and claims not to be Bran Stark anymore. As Tyrion notes he cannot father children (though that's never been determined, the show is going with that) so they don't have to worry about him making little crazy Joffrey's... BUT given how Westeros is about inheritance and shit, you don't think Bran is not going to be challenged many times during his rule. What happens when he dies? What happens when his council dies off and the second wave is not as supportive of him? I think Davos would have made a better king. Dany the fascist: while the speech was gorgeous and definitely put Emilia in for Emmy contention (the Emmys love nothing better than her speechifying in a made up Dothraki or Valyerian)...the fact that she wants to take over the world with her defeat of King's Landing in the guise of freeing people to be their leader..was so OOC, I can't. Jon needing a slap in the face: Sees the utter destruction of KL, sees Grey Worm killing men because they fought for Cersei, has to be aware that a Queen Dany means Sansa and Arya are in big trouble, knows that Tyrion is dead meat...still needs Tyrion to tell him why letting Dany be Queen is a bad idea. Bronn on the small council: huh?
Neutral on: Jon back at the Night's Watch. Tyrion is right that a compromise that works is one that makes no one happy. I just couldn't see Sansa and Arya letting this stand, but I guess everyone was tired of fighting and this was done to appease Greyworm and Yara. Plus it cuts off the Targ line for good. Arya leaving Westeros: I would have liked to see the pack stay together somehow but I guess that's part of the bittersweet ending. She's leaving on a Stark ship, so presumably this is something she and Sansa are working on together.
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Post by day dreamer on May 20, 2019 14:47:48 GMT
I'm probably taking all the criticism over King Bran way too personally because he's one of my favorites, but I hate that D&D never did more with him. Aside from rushing, D&D's biggest flaw was picking favorites and unfortunately one of their least favorite characters ended up King and they never allowed him to do anything cool with his powers outside of trolling Jaime.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 20, 2019 14:52:11 GMT
i really was so sure that sansa and daenerys would make it past their issues and become besties....
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Post by Zadeth on May 20, 2019 15:02:54 GMT
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Post by day dreamer on May 20, 2019 15:03:58 GMT
OMG yes. I was telling other people to calm down because "their feud is going to be resolved in one episode. Y'all overreacting."
#SweetSummerChild
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 20, 2019 15:13:43 GMT
I'm probably taking all the criticism over King Bran way too personally because he's one of my favorites, but I hate that D&D never did more with him. Aside from rushing, D&D's biggest flaw was picking favorites and unfortunately one of their least favorite characters ended up King and they never allowed him to do anything cool with his powers outside of trolling Jaime. Nothing made this clearer than when they used his storyline in Season 4 purely to service Jon’s story and give him a badass action sequence, then sat him out for an entire season
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