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Post by Basil on May 13, 2019 17:24:19 GMT
benioff: dany kind of forgot that killing people doesn't make them love you, it just makes people dead
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 13, 2019 17:31:54 GMT
benioff: dany kind of forgot that killing people doesn't make them love you, it just makes people dead What an obscure reference  |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 17:34:46 GMT
Cleganebowl was meh to me. Too many cuts and I just never really cared about that once Oberyn ākilledā The Mountain anyway. Robert Strong isnāt Ser Gregor. Well he had enough humanity left to disobey his master's and do what he wanted instead: give his brother a hug. When Arya called him Sandor I cried like a baby.  A Stark calling someone by their actual name and thanking them is a death sentence. How do you feel about the juxtaposition between Sandor dying for his vengeance and Arya fighting to not get trampled while letting go of hers? I've seen people unhappy about it, they wanted all the focus to be on Cleganebowl. I didn't mind it. I never wanted CLEGANEBOWL to feel like an isolated moment. I wanted it to be an epic fight taking place as the chaos of battle erupted around them. I wanted it to feel apocalyptic, like this fanart:  So I don't mind that they cut away. While they were focused on each other, there were other important things going on. And I like the parallel you pointed out. It's a shame they botched the Jaime arc, that could have been another nice brother vs sister parallel. |
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Post by Basil on May 13, 2019 17:36:07 GMT
benioff: dany kind of forgot that killing people doesn't make them love you, it just makes people dead What an obscure reference  I'm glad someone got it |
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Post by day dreamer on May 13, 2019 17:38:17 GMT
How were 802 Jaime and 805 Jaime even the same person? i cannot lol
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 18:27:52 GMT
While D&D kind of forgot about the Valonquar...
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Post by Enid on May 13, 2019 18:31:44 GMT
While D&D kind of forgot about the Valonquar... That ceiling was built by a younger brother, duh. |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 13, 2019 18:39:11 GMT
Valonqar prophecy doesnāt exist in the show. Just her dead children and the younger more beautiful queen.
Might do a rewatch later tonight and put some thoughts down. Still kind of sad š
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 18:44:04 GMT
The friends I watch with have been show apologists all the way through season 7. Last night they said they'd boycott anything D&D touch in the future.  |
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Post by day dreamer on May 13, 2019 18:54:45 GMT
I wish I could appreciate the symbolism or whatever of Cersei's death but she went out like a damsel crying to the man she just put out a hit on. Both those characters deserved better.
I'm so bitter. Why did I get so invested?
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 13, 2019 19:24:50 GMT
I wouldnāt say she went out like a damsel. This was classic Cersei.
She was so sure she had the upper hand. She thought she could just out-muscle Daenerys and exploit her mercifulness. Then it blew up in her face when Daenerys didnāt act mercifully. Watching Cerseiās face just gradually sink as Dany rampaged through the city, she realized she had fatally underestimated her opponent, and that the Younger and More Beautiful Queen was finally there to cast her down.
For the first time ever, I would wager, Cersei was completely powerless. Even after the walk, she still had a some social status and time to scheme. Now, there was a dragon in her face, her castle is on fire, and she jas absolutely nowhere to go.
And what do we see her do? Completely fucking panic. As her castle crumbles around her and her protectors abandon her or die horribly in front of her, all she can do is stagger through the shaking halls, trying to find something to cling to. And what she finds is Jaime.
Though they split on bad terms, and she lashed out at him when he left by sending an assassin, I think we all know she didnāt really want him dead. When he left her, she thought, if I canāt have him, no one can. But now in her darkest hour, heās returned to her. Heās bleeding and dying, but finally, heās there.
So now sheās powerless and defeated and panicking, and all she can literally do is plead with no one in particular for her life. She has finally snapped. Frantically begging Jaime not to let her die, all she can do is hold him.
As all of Cerseiās sins and ambitions and hatreds finally consumed her, the castle, the very symbol of the power and status she so desperately climbed towards her entire life, literally caves in on her and crushes her to death. And all she can do is cry.
Whew that was a little cathartic for me to write.
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Post by Basil on May 13, 2019 19:45:24 GMT
I just watched the episode again with Daniel, and kind of liked it more this time. There is so much to love about this episode just from a technical point of view. The beautiful cinematography, phenomenal acting from everyone ... and the god-like soundtrack.
Really, what I dislike most about this episode is the sheer cynicism of it all. I don't know how else to explain it, but if this really is how it's gonna end, it makes me regret ever getting invested in this universe. Everything that's happened up to this point, all the characters who have died to get us here, it feels meaningless now. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change.
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Post by day dreamer on May 13, 2019 19:53:47 GMT
I wouldnāt say she went out like a damsel. This was classic Cersei. She was so sure she had the upper hand. She thought she could just out-muscle Daenerys and exploit her mercifulness. Then it blew up in her face when Daenerys didnāt act mercifully. Watching Cerseiās face just gradually sink as Dany rampaged through the city, she realized she had fatally underestimated her opponent, and that the Younger and More Beautiful Queen was finally there to cast her down. For the first time ever, I would wager, Cersei was completely powerless. Even after the walk, she still had a some social status and time to scheme. Now, there was a dragon in her face, her castle is on fire, and she jas absolutely nowhere to go. And what do we see her do? Completely fucking panic. As her castle crumbles around her and her protectors abandon her or die horribly in front of her, all she can do is stagger through the shaking halls, trying to find something to cling to. And what she finds is Jaime. Though they split on bad terms, and she lashed out at him when he left by sending an assassin, I think we all know she didnāt really want him dead. When he left her, she thought, if I canāt have him, no one can. But now in her darkest hour, heās returned to her. Heās bleeding and dying, but finally, heās there. So now sheās powerless and defeated and panicking, and all she can literally do is plead with no one in particular for her life. She has finally snapped. Frantically begging Jaime not to let her die, all she can do is hold him. As all of Cerseiās sins and ambitions and hatreds finally consumed her, the castle, the very symbol of the power and status she so desperately climbed towards her entire life, literally caves in on her and crushes her to death. And all she can do is cry. Whew that was a little cathartic for me to write. I like reading this, I just wish I could feel it lol |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 19:58:24 GMT
Valonqar prophecy doesnāt exist in the show. Just her dead children and the younger more beautiful queen. Might do a rewatch later tonight and put some thoughts down. Still kind of sad š I know, but I wonder why they bothered to include it with the way things played out. The Valonqar aspect of the prophecy was the most important thing, IMO, because it explains Cersei's extreme paranoia regarding Tyrion. It's also kind of messed up because in show cannon Cersei had a fourth child with Robert, so another puzzling aspect about the way they used it in the show. I understand that they didn't include the Valonquar in the show so they can have Cersei die anyway they want, but it's still a thing in the books So it makes me think that Cersei's arc in the show is dramatically different than the books, and that's disappointing. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 13, 2019 20:05:06 GMT
Valonqar prophecy doesnāt exist in the show. Just her dead children and the younger more beautiful queen. Might do a rewatch later tonight and put some thoughts down. Still kind of sad š I know, but I wonder why they bothered to include it with the way things played out. The Valonqar aspect of the prophecy was the most important thing, IMO, because it explains Cersei's extreme paranoia regarding Tyrion. It's also kind of messed up because in show cannon Cersei had a fourth child with Robert, so another puzzling aspect about the way they used it in the show. I understand that they didn't include the Valonquar in the show so they can have Cersei die anyway they want, but it's still a thing in the books So it makes me think that Cersei's arc in the show is dramatically different than the books, and that's disappointing. Jaime and Cersei are quite different to their book counterparts so I can definitely see them getting a slightly different ending. Jaime goes without saying, but ShowCersei has always been more reserved and controlled than BookCersei, and Lena screaming and breaking down as BookCersei does would maybe seem... a bit much. It's just not how the character is written and not how Lena plays her. I think ShowCersei is more suited to a "quieter" ending like we got. |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 13, 2019 20:10:48 GMT
Valonqar prophecy doesnāt exist in the show. Just her dead children and the younger more beautiful queen. Might do a rewatch later tonight and put some thoughts down. Still kind of sad š I know, but I wonder why they bothered to include it with the way things played out.Ā The Valonqar aspect of the prophecy was the most important thing, IMO, because it explains Cersei's extreme paranoia regarding Tyrion. It's also kind of messed up because in show cannon Cersei had a fourth child with Robert, so another puzzling aspect about the way they used it in the show. I understand that they didn't include the Valonquar in the show so they can have Cersei die anyway they want, but it's still a thing in the books Ā So it makes me think that Cersei's arc in the show is dramatically different than the books, and that's disappointing. i think being that cerseiās Back to back feuds with rival queens, and her general unraveling as her children drop like flies make that flashback worthwhile. I never liked the valonqar thing, because Cersei doesnāt need a prophetic reason to hate him. Circumstances just put them at odds, there never needed to be a supernatural justification for her beef with him. Cogman said Cerseiās son by Robert was counted as part of the Kingās 20 children, IIRC. Idk whatās gonna happen to her in the books. And Iām not hopeful that Iāll ever find out. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 20:22:29 GMT
I know, but I wonder why they bothered to include it with the way things played out. The Valonqar aspect of the prophecy was the most important thing, IMO, because it explains Cersei's extreme paranoia regarding Tyrion. It's also kind of messed up because in show cannon Cersei had a fourth child with Robert, so another puzzling aspect about the way they used it in the show. I understand that they didn't include the Valonquar in the show so they can have Cersei die anyway they want, but it's still a thing in the books So it makes me think that Cersei's arc in the show is dramatically different than the books, and that's disappointing. i think being that cerseiās Back to back feuds with rival queens, and her general unraveling as her children drop like flies make that flashback worthwhile. I never liked the valonqar thing, because Cersei doesnāt need a prophetic reason to hate him. Circumstances just put them at odds, there never needed to be a supernatural justification for her beef with him. Cogman said Cerseiās son by Robert was counted as part of the Kingās 20 children, IIRC.
Idk whatās gonna happen to her in the books. And Iām not hopeful that Iāll ever find out. That's like my dad saying I don't count as one of his kids... |
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 13, 2019 20:31:06 GMT
i think being that cerseiās Back to back feuds with rival queens, and her general unraveling as her children drop like flies make that flashback worthwhile. I never liked the valonqar thing, because Cersei doesnāt need a prophetic reason to hate him. Circumstances just put them at odds, there never needed to be a supernatural justification for her beef with him. Cogman said Cerseiās son by Robert was counted as part of the Kingās 20 children, IIRC.
Idk whatās gonna happen to her in the books. And Iām not hopeful that Iāll ever find out. That's like my dad saying I don't count as one of his kids... welp idk what to tell you bro bro Cerseiās children were conceived out of equal parts love for Jaime and spite for Bobby. So she probably considers them HER children, while anything sired by Bobby was HIS. Like that was no son of hers type of thing. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 21:22:23 GMT
That's like my dad saying I don't count as one of his kids... welp idk what to tell you bro bro Cerseiās children were conceived out of equal parts love for Jaime and spite for Bobby. So she probably considers them HER children, while anything sired by Bobby was HIS. Like that was no son of hers type of thing. It's just a plot hole that they tried to explain away but it's obvious they forgot about that little line in season 1. It's not the end of the world, just another example of little writing mistakes. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 13, 2019 21:25:03 GMT
Everytime Dany executes someone I'm begging her to just behead them. Burning to death is a horrible way to die, it's probably the most frustrating thing about Dany to me. I suppose she does it that way to send a message, but that seems like some North Korea shit to me.
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