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Post by day dreamer on Apr 22, 2015 13:41:39 GMT
I have not seen the leaks, so here might be some mistakes, but why would Cersei hear about Sansa being betrothed to Boltons? Qyburn hasn't as many spies as Varys did. Sure, she'll hear about it after they are married, but how could she know about the marriage before it even happens? Also, the show has never (expect Lysa thing last year) said that marriage can't be annulled because of inconsummation. This is from the books. Show has never said that it needs to be annulled by High Septon. Except the Lysa thing in 4x05. I haven't seen the leaks either, but I think they're just speculating on Cersei knowning beforehand. I agree, Qyburn doesn't have as many "little birds" as Varys did, realistically the only way Cersei could find out is if someone in the Boltons camp sends a raven or something. I suppose Cersei could know that Sansa is with Littlefinger from Brienne saying her name so loudly in the Inn. |
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 22, 2015 13:58:51 GMT
I know that but I don't think that LF and the writers do  In E3, LF states she's still a virgin so the marriage isn't recognized by law and Roose basically says he doesn't really give a shit anyways because he just needs her for her name, not her virginity. The show makes it pretty clear that the Boltons and LF are not going to recognize the Crown going forward because they feel the Lannisters are in such a weakened position that they can't do anything about it or won't care enough to do anything because they are dealing with their own shit in the capital. This. The whole "wanted for regicide" but doesn't matter if Sansa is back up North where the crown can't reach her. Now that Tywin is gone, LF and the Boltons are making their own plans to ensure they survive without the Crown's backing. That's why this move isn't stupid in the slightest. And I have no doubt that LF knows of Ramsay's nature- he also knows that Sansa survived Joffrey and as such, can survive Ramsay. Or at least, long enough for Stannis to come destroy the Boltons. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 14:54:09 GMT
The move is only stupid for Littlefinger. It's clever for Boltons. Littlefinger is dumb to think Roose will let him back to WF after he has left and even dumber if he thinks Stannis will not hang him.
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2015 15:05:08 GMT
I was not aware LF's word equals legal annulment of the marriage. No one has stated any differently so when a character (who would probably understand what the laws are in Westeros) says this is how it works, why would the audience think any differently? Again, what law are you referencing on the show that says the unconsummated marriage was legal? What is LF contradicting exactly? In fact, on the show when Margaery is being betrothed to Joffrey, they explicitly state that she's still good to go because she and Renly never consummated. Granted Renly was dead but clearly, the virgin thing seems to be the most important aspect of the marriage not being binding. The show is not being inconsistent here. In E3, LF states she's still a virgin so the marriage isn't recognized by law and Roose basically says he doesn't really give a shit anyways because he just needs her for her name, not her virginity. The show makes it pretty clear that the Boltons and LF are not going to recognize the Crown going forward because they feel the Lannisters are in such a weakened position that they can't do anything about it or won't care enough to do anything because they are dealing with their own shit in the capital. This. The whole "wanted for regicide" but doesn't matter if Sansa is back up North where the crown can't reach her. Now that Tywin is gone, LF and the Boltons are making their own plans to ensure they survive without the Crown's backing. That's why this move isn't stupid in the slightest. And I have no doubt that LF knows of Ramsay's nature- he also knows that Sansa survived Joffrey and as such, can survive Ramsay. Or at least, long enough for Stannis to come destroy the Boltons. They have no annulment. They can't do anything. Based on this logic anyone can just step in and say oh well Selyse and Stannis aren't married, Ned and Cat weren't married, children maybe they are not theirs? Who cares about facts or procedure when fake Batman can announce something and it is taken as a fact. No i'm pretty sure it was stated in the books that if a marriage was not consumated then the marriage could be put aside. the show is correct on this one i think. Its just that Sansa would have to prove this. which involves inspection by the septon "Put aside" means annulled. If the marriage isn't annulled then she can't marry again.  |
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 22, 2015 17:09:22 GMT
This. The whole "wanted for regicide" but doesn't matter if Sansa is back up North where the crown can't reach her. Now that Tywin is gone, LF and the Boltons are making their own plans to ensure they survive without the Crown's backing. That's why this move isn't stupid in the slightest. And I have no doubt that LF knows of Ramsay's nature- he also knows that Sansa survived Joffrey and as such, can survive Ramsay. Or at least, long enough for Stannis to come destroy the Boltons. They have no annulment. They can't do anything. Based on this logic anyone can just step in and say oh well Selyse and Stannis aren't married, Ned and Cat weren't married, children maybe they are not theirs? Who cares about facts or procedure when fake Batman can announce something and it is taken as a fact. "Put aside" means annulled. If the marriage isn't annulled then she can't marry again. As with everything in this series, it's all about what people can get away with. Sansa Stark, the heir of Winterfell is back in the North. The Lannisters are in freefall and have no ability to do much of anything at this point...certainly not demand Sansa be returned for trial or bigamy. If Sansa says "The marriage wasn't consummated", then pretty much everyone in the North is going to believe her. That's all the matters. It doesn't matter what the Crown says, because without the Boltons' support, they have no ability to get close to her. Basically, the law doesn't apply in this situation. Her name is what matters to everyone involved. Everything else is negotiable. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 17:53:30 GMT
I've seen argument "Roose will abandon the Lannisters, no way" in Westeros.org and maybe in here too, and I don't see it. Roose is not a Lannister's catspaw. He only worked with Tywin to end the plunderings of Robb. He is close to declaring indepedence in ADwD. In ASoS, he basically says to Jaime that he gives no shits about thoughts of the Lannisters.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:27:15 GMT
I've seen argument "Roose will abandon the Lannisters, no way" in Westeros.org and maybe in here too, and I don't see it. Roose is not a Lannister's catspaw. He only worked with Tywin to end the plunderings of Robb. He is close to declaring indepedence in ADwD. In ASoS, he basically says to Jaime that he gives no shits about thoughts of the Lannisters. Roose is not loyal at all. Just like you said. He only allied himself with the Lannisters so that he could rise in power, he doesn't need them anymore. I was just thinking that Roose isn't quite ready to abandon the Lannisters, perhaps I thought that his armies needed strengthening.. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:34:54 GMT
I've seen argument "Roose will abandon the Lannisters, no way" in Westeros.org and maybe in here too, and I don't see it. Roose is not a Lannister's catspaw. He only worked with Tywin to end the plunderings of Robb. He is close to declaring indepedence in ADwD. In ASoS, he basically says to Jaime that he gives no shits about thoughts of the Lannisters. Roose is not loyal at all. Just like you said. He only allied himself with the Lannisters so that he could rise in power, he doesn't need them anymore. I was just thinking that Roose isn't quite ready to abandon the Lannisters, perhaps I thought that his armies needed strengthening.. My head is exploding when I think about Roose's plan. Lady Dustin thinks that Roose is close to declaring indepedence. Roose seems totally calm of the though him dying with Ramsay as his heir. He seems to be calm even when Stannis is almost at the walls of Winterfell. He has to have some kind of plan. Unless he is immortal skin-changing creature. HYPE HYPE. And even if he's not, I can buy that he will still flay Ramsay. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:39:54 GMT
Roose is not loyal at all. Just like you said. He only allied himself with the Lannisters so that he could rise in power, he doesn't need them anymore. I was just thinking that Roose isn't quite ready to abandon the Lannisters, perhaps I thought that his armies needed strengthening.. My head is exploding when I think about Roose's plan. Lady Dustin thinks that Roose is close to declaring indepedence. Roose seems totally calm of the though him dying with Ramsay as his heir. He seems to be calm even when Stannis is almost at the walls of Winterfell. He has to have some kind of plan. Unless he is immortal skin-changing creature. HYPE HYPE. And even if he's not, I can buy that he will still flay Ramsay. He always acts calm. Do you remember that Reek actually saw a glimpse of fear and nervousness in his eyes at some stage in ADWD? I remember it being when Manderlies and Freys clashed. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:44:48 GMT
My head is exploding when I think about Roose's plan. Lady Dustin thinks that Roose is close to declaring indepedence. Roose seems totally calm of the though him dying with Ramsay as his heir. He seems to be calm even when Stannis is almost at the walls of Winterfell. He has to have some kind of plan. Unless he is immortal skin-changing creature. HYPE HYPE. And even if he's not, I can buy that he will still flay Ramsay. He always acts calm. Do you remember that Reek actually saw a glimpse of fear and nervousness in his eyes at some stage in ADWD? I remember it being when Manderlies and Freys clashed. Ah yes. But that might also be Reek just misinteprenting things, like when he himself cried, he mistaked it for Jeyne's. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:46:58 GMT
He always acts calm. Do you remember that Reek actually saw a glimpse of fear and nervousness in his eyes at some stage in ADWD? I remember it being when Manderlies and Freys clashed. Ah yes. But that might also be Reek just misinteprenting things, like when he himself cried, he mistaked it for Jeyne's. True. I still think that Roose is a bit nervous, but has things under control on the surface.. unless he has an epic plan, where he just shouts "The Roose is Loose" and goes on a killing spree killing everyone. dragon2 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:58:41 GMT
Y'all have made some great points here - solid arguments for and against all the logic and reason behind this massive political change in the story. I really think this change is the first time the show has deviated this far away from the books. They've made some pretty big cuts and changes in the past, but none that didn't lead right back to where the original story was anyways that I can think of. It's hard to imagine how Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton won't alter the entire story and not just her own personal one in some massive way because of sadistic Ramsay scares. And that's why I don't think they're actually going to go through with the marriage.
I'm not 100% confident on my guess, but I'll stand by it and we won't find out until after mid-season most likely. I think they are going to build this thing up big for awhile and have the fans going crazy on both sides of the debate and then throw in some sort of darkhorse move that may or may not make any sense to prevent the wedding and put Sansa back where she was at the end of the last book anyways.
The reason I think this is going to be the main focal point of the show is because everyone else's story is in a holding pattern right now at the point it's at that we know of other than Cersei and the King's Landing mess moving forward quite quickly right now. They don't have much material to go on for Jon at the Wall once he's Lord Commander, and Dany's story is churning along slowly with all her political debacles. They've cut so much of the Dorne story, what have they got to show other than Sand Snake boobs at this point? Sending Jaime there was the only thing they changed to add substance. Maybe he gets to enjoy Sandsnake boobs... who knows.
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 22, 2015 19:25:33 GMT
Y'all have made some great points here - solid arguments for and against all the logic and reason behind this massive political change in the story. I really think this change is the first time the show has deviated this far away from the books. They've made some pretty big cuts and changes in the past, but none that didn't lead right back to where the original story was anyways that I can think of. It's hard to imagine how Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton won't alter the entire story and not just her own personal one in some massive way because of sadistic Ramsay scares. And that's why I don't think they're actually going to go through with the marriage. I'm not 100% confident on my guess, but I'll stand by it and we won't find out until after mid-season most likely. I think they are going to build this thing up big for awhile and have the fans going crazy on both sides of the debate and then throw in some sort of darkhorse move that may or may not make any sense to prevent the wedding and put Sansa back where she was at the end of the last book anyways. The reason I think this is going to be the main focal point of the show is because everyone else's story is in a holding pattern right now at the point it's at that we know of other than Cersei and the King's Landing mess moving forward quite quickly right now. They don't have much material to go on for Jon at the Wall once he's Lord Commander, and Dany's story is churning along slowly with all her political debacles. They've cut so much of the Dorne story, what have they got to show other than Sand Snake boobs at this point? Sending Jaime there was the only thing they changed to add substance. Maybe he gets to enjoy Sandsnake boobs... who knows. Eh, I disagree about Jon and Dany's storylines...without the book filler, they have plenty of interesting things coming in their storylines. I don't believe either one will have a 'slow burn' plot this year- this is definitely the big year for both of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 19:27:38 GMT
And I'm praying they do go there 8D But then, you're... I mean, I can't. . . It's just so I truly hope no one's wishing rape on someone - fictional character or not. I know this board is claiming no censorship unlike on westeros.org but this goes over the line in my book. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 19:30:23 GMT
Y'all have made some great points here - solid arguments for and against all the logic and reason behind this massive political change in the story. I really think this change is the first time the show has deviated this far away from the books. They've made some pretty big cuts and changes in the past, but none that didn't lead right back to where the original story was anyways that I can think of. It's hard to imagine how Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton won't alter the entire story and not just her own personal one in some massive way because of sadistic Ramsay scares. And that's why I don't think they're actually going to go through with the marriage. I'm not 100% confident on my guess, but I'll stand by it and we won't find out until after mid-season most likely. I think they are going to build this thing up big for awhile and have the fans going crazy on both sides of the debate and then throw in some sort of darkhorse move that may or may not make any sense to prevent the wedding and put Sansa back where she was at the end of the last book anyways. The reason I think this is going to be the main focal point of the show is because everyone else's story is in a holding pattern right now at the point it's at that we know of other than Cersei and the King's Landing mess moving forward quite quickly right now. They don't have much material to go on for Jon at the Wall once he's Lord Commander, and Dany's story is churning along slowly with all her political debacles. They've cut so much of the Dorne story, what have they got to show other than Sand Snake boobs at this point? Sending Jaime there was the only thing they changed to add substance. Maybe he gets to enjoy Sandsnake boobs... who knows. Eh, I disagree about Jon and Dany's storylines...without the book filler, they have plenty of interesting things coming in their storylines. I don't believe either one will have a 'slow burn' plot this year- this is definitely the big year for both of them. You're right - there's lots of great material for both of them - and I didn't mean to imply they weren't going to be focal points, only that their material is following the book fairly closely and expected. Some players get their plots messed with and others don't. I often wonder if that's because they don't want to touch the end-game characters for fear of messing the story up too much. GRRM has already said they have done a few changes they shouldn't have so we know there's going to be plot holes galore. I may be wrongly assuming they whiz past a lot of 'filler' in those stories. |
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Post by morgantayler on Apr 22, 2015 21:36:49 GMT
Lol in this photo from the episode there are two random people hanging out of the window waving at the camera.   |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 21:45:15 GMT
LOL! That's a hilarious oversight. You'd think since they'd gone to the effort of photoshopping in the Great Sept of Baelor that they would have noticed. Or maybe they decided just to leave them be.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 22:13:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 1:25:30 GMT
For people who have seen 503, is it the best one so far?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 1:30:40 GMT
For people who have seen 503, is it the best one so far? Yeah I think it's best episode of Season 5 so far and compared to the other Ep. 3's, it clearly surpasses them. Lord Snow (Wasn't bad, it's just nothing really happened) What Is Dead May Never Die (Was the Best Ep. 3 before High Sparrow was leaked) Walk of Punishment (In my opinion, one of the weakest episodes) Breaker of Chains (If you eliminate the rape scene, the episode is decent) |
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