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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jan 30, 2017 21:22:31 GMT
I think she didn't know he was going to say something serious, and she didn't seem to catch half of what he said, and she didn't know it would last so long, and she was probably lit too. By the time she realized what was up, it was too late to not seem like a dumbass. I bet she regrets her little side show. I thought that too (she does take a glance at his piece of paper in what looks like surprise). I didn't get the impression sati and Queen Carol did from her actions during the speech, I thought it was either she was a bit drunk or trying to be funny. I didn't see the red carpet though so I don't have any other context for her behaviour. If it was something more then I feel pretty bad  |
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Post by Belle on Jan 31, 2017 0:09:11 GMT
I think she didn't know he was going to say something serious, and she didn't seem to catch half of what he said, and she didn't know it would last so long, and she was probably lit too. By the time she realized what was up, it was too late to not seem like a dumbass. I bet she regrets her little side show. I thought that too (she does take a glance at his piece of paper in what looks like surprise). I didn't get the impression sati and Queen Carol did from her actions during the speech, I thought it was either she was a bit drunk or trying to be funny. I didn't see the red carpet though so I don't have any other context for her behaviour. If it was something more then I feel pretty bad honestly i thought her expressions were cute lol. i dont think its a big deal at all. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 31, 2017 1:22:52 GMT
Occam's razor tells us the simplest explanation it often the most likely. I think the vast majority of people are reacting to Winona with amusement, because the assumption of mental illness is a huge leap when we know this was an awards ceremony where the champagne was flowing.
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Post by day dreamer on Jan 31, 2017 3:04:57 GMT
Occam's razor tells us the simplest explanation it often the most likely. I think the vast majority of people are reacting to Winona with amusement, because the assumption of mental illness is a huge leap when we know this was an awards ceremony where the champagne was flowing. It's not that huge of a leap when you saw her walking dazed on the red carpet or looking loopy at her table in various shots. It could be alcohol. SAGs isn't really a champagne flowing event like Globes. There were people like Bryan Cranston who I suspect was kind of drunk that acted decently. She, unfortunately looked more like someone suffering from schizophrenia. I hope she was just drunk and mugging but the whole thing looked really troubling. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 31, 2017 5:47:26 GMT
Occam's razor tells us the simplest explanation it often the most likely. I think the vast majority of people are reacting to Winona with amusement, because the assumption of mental illness is a huge leap when we know this was an awards ceremony where the champagne was flowing. It's not that huge of a leap when you saw her walking dazed on the red carpet or looking loopy at her table in various shots. It could be alcohol. SAGs isn't really a champagne flowing event like Globes. There were people like Bryan Cranston who I suspect was kind of drunk that acted decently. She, unfortunately looked more like someone suffering from schizophrenia. I hope she was just drunk and mugging but the whole thing looked really troubling. Well setting aside the fact that none of us know what the normal reaction of a rare and unique event like winning a SAG award should look like, Winona's career has had its ups and downs and this must have been a reasonably overwhelming experience for her. Not many celebrities get second chances after career slumps, especially after scandals like the shoplifting incident, and especially an aging actress in an industry with extremely limited opportunities for older women. Getting cast in a show like Stranger Things, which became a pop culture phenomenon and social media darling had to be a great experience for her. She hasn't spent a lot of time on red carpets or accepting awards at this point of her career, and just being at the SAG awards had to be extremely exciting, much less winning an ensemble cast award. I think the fact that her character on the show was mentally unbalanced makes it easy for us to hastily project that perception on Winona Ryder the person, when there are much more mundane explanations for her appearance. What must have been an emotionally overwhelming and overstimulating moment for her is being blown out of proportion, it's totally reasonable to imagine how somebody might be shocked to disbelief and struggling to process that moment especially while riding the comeback wave. That's not counting whatever drugs or alcohol she might have been enjoying that evening. The SAG awards boast of having a menu of special cocktails of about 120 bottles of liquor, and who knows what she might have brought inside her purse or what's being passed around in the bathroom. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and I think judging her for what amounts to being tipsy and making silly faces is pretty harsh. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 10:47:14 GMT
DaveyJoe me and others thinking it's cruel to make a meme of what could have been a mental episode is 'harsh' but you assuming a grown up woman in her 40s in Hollywood who has attended multiple events and was in the business 20 years cannot behave, drink or take drugs in some moderation is what? Benefit of a doubt it isn't. Because you are just flat out assuming she is attention grabbing, irresponsible and juvenile. At least what you wrote just now is not as bad as in 'he might be an alcoholic' and 'they might have been abused' situation, you going all in with sympathy for an alcoholic which left me speechless. You know what to see that, that was 'harsh'.
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Post by Basil on Jan 31, 2017 18:00:08 GMT
So I just watched the SAG awards and honestly, I thought Winona was amazing, the Stranger Things acceptance speech was the best part of the evening.  It seemed pretty clear that she was doing it intentionally. They all seemed totally surprised and overwhelmed, Winona was probably a bit tipsy and was having too much fun. Was it a bit awkward? Sure. But disturbing ... no. Frankly I don't understand the need to even suggest that it could be mental illness. She wasn't hammered either, she was glowing. I don't get why this is even an issue. She was obviously having fun, the audience fucking loved it, and I thought it was super adorable.  |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 31, 2017 18:32:31 GMT
DaveyJoe me and others thinking it's cruel to make a meme of what could have been a mental episode is 'harsh' but you assuming a grown up woman in her 40s in Hollywood who has attended multiple events and was in the business 20 years cannot behave, drink or take drugs in some moderation is what? Benefit of a doubt it isn't. Because you are just flat out assuming she is attention grabbing, irresponsible and juvenile. At least what you wrote just now is not as bad as in 'he might be an alcoholic' and 'they might have been abused' situation, you going all in with sympathy for an alcoholic which left me speechless. You know what to see that, that was 'harsh'. You have your approach, and I have mine. I am not ready to judge a stranger, because I wouldn't want strangers to judge me. Sorry, but it reminds me too much of the religious right. You can throw around works like juvenile and irresponsible, but at the end of the day she made some silly faces, so what? |
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 18:59:02 GMT
DaveyJoe me and others thinking it's cruel to make a meme of what could have been a mental episode is 'harsh' but you assuming a grown up woman in her 40s in Hollywood who has attended multiple events and was in the business 20 years cannot behave, drink or take drugs in some moderation is what? Benefit of a doubt it isn't. Because you are just flat out assuming she is attention grabbing, irresponsible and juvenile. At least what you wrote just now is not as bad as in 'he might be an alcoholic' and 'they might have been abused' situation, you going all in with sympathy for an alcoholic which left me speechless. You know what to see that, that was 'harsh'. You have your approach, and I have mine. I am not ready to judge a stranger, because I wouldn't want strangers to judge me. Sorry, but it reminds me too much of the religious right. You can throw around works like juvenile and irresponsible, but at the end of the day she made some silly faces, so what? Huh. If the allegations are true, Affleck does sound like a drunk asshole, but alcohol abuse is a very serious thing. And yet, it's the only disease that society deems appropriate to shame the person suffering from it. I think (allegedly) hopping in to bed with somebody and touching them while intoxicated is a pretty good suggestion that Casey might be an alcoholic. I'm not sure he'd do that sober. If Ben has struggled with alcoholism there's a good chance others in his family do as well. There is absolutely a reason to speculate that Affleck is abusing alcohol, drinking so much that you molest people is not something a responsible drinker does. If it's okay to assume that Affleck probably molested Gorka while drunk, I don't see why it's unreasonable to speculate that Affleck is an alcoholic. Just because you "judge" something differently then others doesn't make it any less of passing a judgement. |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 31, 2017 19:12:43 GMT
You have your approach, and I have mine. I am not ready to judge a stranger, because I wouldn't want strangers to judge me. Sorry, but it reminds me too much of the religious right. You can throw around works like juvenile and irresponsible, but at the end of the day she made some silly faces, so what? Huh. If the allegations are true, Affleck does sound like a drunk asshole, but alcohol abuse is a very serious thing. And yet, it's the only disease that society deems appropriate to shame the person suffering from it. I think (allegedly) hopping in to bed with somebody and touching them while intoxicated is a pretty good suggestion that Casey might be an alcoholic. I'm not sure he'd do that sober. If Ben has struggled with alcoholism there's a good chance others in his family do as well. There is absolutely a reason to speculate that Affleck is abusing alcohol, drinking so much that you molest people is not something a responsible drinker does. If it's okay to assume that Affleck probably molested Gorka while drunk, I don't see why it's unreasonable to speculate that Affleck is an alcoholic. Just because you "judge" something differently then others doesn't make it any less of passing a judgement. I was very clearly playing devil's advocate during the Casey Affleck conversation, which is about something we don't have much evidence for. I'm not willing to condemn Casey Affleck for something we can't prove, and if those allegations are true, I was suggesting a possible substance abuse problem that may explain his shitty behavior. It's totally consistent with my reluctance to shame strangers. Gorka's allegations would definitely imply some level of alcohol abuse from Affleck. The Winona Ryder thing is a throwaway moment that many found amusing. You seemed eager to assume that she had a mental illness, and shame people for making memes about it, or shame Winona for imbibing too much and not acting gracefully enough at the freaking SAGs. I'm not about that, and I make no apologies for giving people I don't know the benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 19:14:32 GMT
Huh. Just because you "judge" something differently then others doesn't make it any less of passing a judgement. I was very clearly playing devil's advocate during the Casey Affleck conversation, which is about something we don't have much evidence for. I'm not willing to condemn Casey Affleck for something we can't prove, and if those allegations are true, I was suggesting a possible substance abuse problem that may explain his shitty behavior. It's totally consistent with my reluctance to shame strangers. Gorka's allegations would definitely imply some level of alcohol abuse from Affleck. I'm not sure what Casey Affleck has to do with Winona Ryder, but the latter is a throwaway moment that many found amusing. You seemed eager to assume that she had a mental illness, and shame people for making memes about it, or shame Winona for imbibing too much and not acting gracefully enough at the freaking SAGs. I'm not about that, and I make no apologies for giving people I don't know the benefit of the doubt. Since we are being so honest here and you have no problem in assuming I'm shaming people here, you insisting on focusing on Casey here instead of allegedly molested women reeks of rape apologism to me. So no, I won't be lectured by you. |
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Post by Basil on Jan 31, 2017 19:15:06 GMT
Huh. Just because you "judge" something differently then others doesn't make it any less of passing a judgement. I was very clearly playing devil's advocate during the Casey Affleck conversation, which is about something we don't have much evidence for. I'm not willing to condemn Casey Affleck for something we can't prove, and if those allegations are true, I was suggesting a possible substance abuse problem that may explain his shitty behavior. It's totally consistent with my reluctance to shame strangers. Gorka's allegations would definitely imply some level of alcohol abuse from Affleck. The Winona Ryder thing is a throwaway moment that many found amusing. You seemed eager to assume that she had a mental illness, and shame people for making memes about it, or shame Winona for imbibing too much and not acting gracefully enough at the freaking SAGs. I'm not about that, and I make no apologies for giving people I don't know the benefit of the doubt. Well said! |
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 31, 2017 19:25:14 GMT
I was very clearly playing devil's advocate during the Casey Affleck conversation, which is about something we don't have much evidence for. I'm not willing to condemn Casey Affleck for something we can't prove, and if those allegations are true, I was suggesting a possible substance abuse problem that may explain his shitty behavior. It's totally consistent with my reluctance to shame strangers. Gorka's allegations would definitely imply some level of alcohol abuse from Affleck. I'm not sure what Casey Affleck has to do with Winona Ryder, but the latter is a throwaway moment that many found amusing. You seemed eager to assume that she had a mental illness, and shame people for making memes about it, or shame Winona for imbibing too much and not acting gracefully enough at the freaking SAGs. I'm not about that, and I make no apologies for giving people I don't know the benefit of the doubt. Since we are being so honest here and you have no problem in assuming I'm shaming people here, you insisting on focusing on Casey here instead of allegedly molested women reeks of rape apologism to me. So no, I won't be lectured by you. When it's something we can prove, that's one thing. I think it's a very dangerous line to walk when there's no evidence. Our justice system is designed so that people are innocent until proven guilty, and it is often flawed in execution, but I believe that's something we should strive for. When somebody is accused of something, people are very quick to assume their guilt. Either way, I may be an asshole for giving Affleck the benefit of the doubt for something I have no evidence of, but we were all having a harmless laugh over the Winona Ryder thing. Lighten up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 19:28:43 GMT
I was very clearly playing devil's advocate during the Casey Affleck conversation, which is about something we don't have much evidence for. I'm not willing to condemn Casey Affleck for something we can't prove, and if those allegations are true, I was suggesting a possible substance abuse problem that may explain his shitty behavior. It's totally consistent with my reluctance to shame strangers. Gorka's allegations would definitely imply some level of alcohol abuse from Affleck. I'm not sure what Casey Affleck has to do with Winona Ryder, but the latter is a throwaway moment that many found amusing. You seemed eager to assume that she had a mental illness, and shame people for making memes about it, or shame Winona for imbibing too much and not acting gracefully enough at the freaking SAGs. I'm not about that, and I make no apologies for giving people I don't know the benefit of the doubt. Since we are being so honest here and you have no problem in assuming I'm shaming people here, you insisting on focusing on Casey here instead of allegedly molested women reeks of rape apologism to me. So no, I won't be lectured by you. Oh come on. We all know Davey isn't a rape apologist. Can we chill this thread down at all? Please?  |
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 19:29:58 GMT
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jan 31, 2017 19:32:30 GMT
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 19:52:59 GMT
Since we are being so honest here and you have no problem in assuming I'm shaming people here, you insisting on focusing on Casey here instead of allegedly molested women reeks of rape apologism to me. So no, I won't be lectured by you. Oh come on. We all know Davey isn't a rape apologist. Can we chill this thread down at all? Please? Well I hope not because that was a truly disturbing thing to focus on among much bigger issues at topic. All I am trying to say is that I felt disturbed by seeing media exploit a woman with - what I provided above - history of mental illness. And then I read 'I shame' her, if by going what is far less likely theory, she was just drunk at the event. No, to me it is the media shaming a woman which is something she precisely spoke of just six months ago. I felt uncomfortable looking at it, I felt uncomfortable seeing headlines deeming it as 'hilarious' and I don't think it's offensive I jumped to conclusion she had anxiety attack - which now I know she has a history of - instead of 'oh she got pissed and tried to steal focus from a co-star'. |
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jan 31, 2017 21:21:03 GMT
I didn't know that about Winona. I still don't know one way or the other what the situation was at the SAGs with her but I do feel bad now for being so crass and unthinking. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. (I realise his might sound insincere written out like this but I do mean it) |
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2017 21:35:32 GMT
 The way the media presented it was so one sided, I actually only saw those articles about her being 'funny' after I saw the speech and as I watched her in the background something really didn't sit right with me. I watched countless ceremonies over the years and I don't recall anyone acting like this so I immediately thought this is something different than a person being drunk. But of course the media run with memes so it's only natural people thought that this was all it was
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Post by Basil on Jan 31, 2017 22:48:23 GMT
I didn't know that about Winona. I still don't know one way or the other what the situation was at the SAGs with her but I do feel bad now for being so crass and unthinking. You weren't. There is zero reason to feel bad about finding Winona's goofy expressions amusing. And there is even less reason to shame people who do. I watched countless ceremonies over the years and I don't recall anyone acting like this so I immediately thought this is something different than a person being drunk.     |
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