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Post by janicia on May 24, 2016 12:21:17 GMT
My husband thought that the baptism would be the end of Euron.
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Post by janicia on May 24, 2016 4:59:42 GMT
My favourite scene I don't understand the decision to let him go find a cure and what he'll find. I think he will go back to Mereen to take a ship or is he just going to ride ? I don't know but he should have at least gone back to Mereen with her lol I think there's 5 options for Jorah here: 1. He takes a ship and travels to Oldtown as the maesters at The Citadel might know the cure for greyscale. He could also meet Sam. 2. He goes back to Meereen receives help from Kinvara and the priests that she brings in just as Morqorro healed Victarion's hand 3. He goes to Volantis and seeks help from the priests there, then as a gift brings the Golden Company to Westeros just as Jon Connington did for Aegon and he opens the door for Dany to land there. 4. He travels to Asshai and maybe finds Quaithe who could heal him as she told him in S2, those who travel through Old Valyria must have protection. 5. He doesn't find the cure, returns to Dany as she lands in Westeros, and dies fighting. Even though they gave him greyscale, I think they would have just killed him off already if he didn't at least have more to his story. That's a good list. I'm trying to think of characters that I'd like to see traveling with Jorah. If he doesn't have an interesting travel companion, I'm assuming that he'll be pretty much offscreen. Sam and Jorah could be good together - sort of a kinder reprise of the Jorah / Tyrion dynamic, where Jorah is stuck with somebody that talks too much. I do think Sam and Jorah could develop a nice friendship. Jorah and Cersei-in-exile would be hilarious, but Cersei is probably going to die rather than go into exile. Jorah / Yara / Theon could be interesting. I think it would be good for Theon to meet somebody who doesn't already know him. And Yara and Jorah could probably get up to some fun verbal sparring. If Jorah does go back to Mereen (which makes sense as a launching point - he could travel faster than Dany's horde and give Tyrion a heads-up that they're coming, and take advantage of Dany's wealth in Mereen to fund his quest) and is healed by Kinvara, he could just stay with Dany and serve the purpose of helping convert her court to the Red God as a living proof of the Red God's power. Jorah / Arya could also work, as Arya continues her tour of Westerosi badasses.
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Post by janicia on May 23, 2016 20:21:38 GMT
I have a lot of sympathy for the northern lords. They don't have all the information about everybody, but their basic situation now is that they lost the civil war against Kings Landing, have been invaded three times in recent years (Ironborne, Stannis, and Littlefinger), and have lost most of the competent leadership (Ned, Robb, Roose, GreatJon, everybody else who died in the Red Wedding, and all of the Stark advisors). Now they're down to two bastards that are both deeply problematic (Ramsay for all the murdering, Jon for his Wildling alliance and abandoning the Wall), Sansa who kinda doesn't count because she's female and married to Ramsay, and Rickon who is way too young and probably going to die soon. Further, it isn't clear if the North is still rebelling against the crown or not - it also isn't clear who is going to end up in control over Kings Landing, and how they'll end up viewing events in the North.
With winter and White Walkers coming, and with Littlefinger's invasion ongoing, and not having enough information about Ramsay, Jon, or Sansa to make great decisions about them, and also not having enough information about the political situation in the capital, the Northern lords have an unenviable task in picking whom to support. And they're probably not going to be pleased to see that Jon is toting around a foreign priestess, either. I'm looking forward to the Manderlay meeting.
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Post by janicia on May 23, 2016 15:22:29 GMT
So Jorah could ask a Red Priest to cure him. And they do plausibly have the power. Curing Jorah would be a meaningful way for Kinvara to win Tyrion and Dany's belief.
Or Jorah could go to Old Town and meet Sam. Sam could tell him about the White Walkers, and Jorah could say "you absolutely need to tell this to Dany, she has no idea". Then Jorah goes off and dies, and Sam goes to tell Dany about the White Walkers.
I don't think Jorah is going to spread greyscale, actually. He is being pretty careful to avoid spreading it, and he is competent with that sort of thing. It would be a really frustrating end for that character if he set off an epidemic. And in a show that already has zombies, I don't think they need a greyscale epidemic too.
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Post by janicia on May 23, 2016 15:08:47 GMT
I do feel like sending Sam to the Citadel to study up on ways to kill the WW's is not really an efficient plan. They kind of know already. Dragonglass and Valyrian steel, Sam and Jon would know this just through experience. Find as much as you can and arm your army appropriately. There's what, like 10 of them? In the show, they played that decision primarily as Sam's plan to escape Castle Black, rather than a coherent plan for the betterment of the Night's Watch. And even in the books, where Sam probably will learn something of value at the Citadel and has been meeting people of importance, there were a lot of factors going into the decision to send Sam for maester training. It is looking unlikely to me that the Ironborne will even attack Old Town in the show. Euron is stuck rebuilding his fleet on Pyke for a while and then he's going to Mereen. Maybe he'll sack the Reach a little on the way, but the show Ironborne seem incapable of taking on a large city and there just doesn't seem to be time for much to come of an attack on the Reach. And the Kings Landing plot has moved forward without the attack on the Reach. But surely something happens with Sam - something brings him back into the plot. Maybe he'll arrive at the Citadel, get an audience with an important Maester, tell him about the white walkers (and maybe he'll also have news of Jon's rise from the dead), and then the Maesters will launch their contingency plan - maybe Sam will be a messenger rather than a scholar. Or maybe somebody does attack the Citadel at the end of this season - possibly the Dornish or Dany? Or maybe Sam doesn't even make it to the Citadel and gets sidetracked by the upcoming meeting with his father.
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Post by janicia on May 23, 2016 13:51:05 GMT
This episode really threw some characters off of their previous trajectories!
Where will Yara and Theon go? They could go back to the north, but why would they? They both fled the north. They share an understanding that they shouldn't try invading Westeros anymore. They don't know anything about Dany, and presumably want to avoid Euron, so I doubt they go to Slaver's Bay. So maybe Yara and Theon decide to just become pirates and join the pirate hub at Bravos? Would be fun to have an excuse to run into Saladhor Saan again, but more importantly, maybe they'd provide Arya with a way out of Bravos. If Theon and Yara did turn mercenary / pirate, there are a lot of places that they could re-enter the narrative. Tyrells or Littlefinger could plausibly hire them, or they could become wrapped up with the Maesters or Faceless men. Or even Dany could recruit them, since the Euron thing seems unlikely to work out long term. Or they could hear of the white walkers and show up as part of a Westerosi last stand.
I have no idea what Bran is going to do now, but he and Meera badly need a new helper. If it isn't Benjen or Coldhands, I guess it could be Craster's wives or random Wildlings.
Interesting that Euron did not show off his dragon's horn at the Kings Moot.
Still don't know what Littlefinger will end up doing this season.
And I'm curious what Jorah's new side quest will lead to. Maybe a red priest heals him, and that is what gets Dany solidly into the red priest camp. I do think Dany would need to see a miracle to trust the red priests. Or maybe somebody else heals him, and Dany ends up rejecting the red priests.
I thought Tyrion talking to Kinvara echoed Cersei's initial conversation with the High Sparrow. Tyrion and Cersei both wanted to tap into a popular religion as an easy way to gain more popular support, but it was not a religion that they followed or respected, and they didn't think through the agenda that the religious leader might have. But unlike Cersei, Tyrion has Varys - somebody who respects and fears the might of the religious leader, and who forces a more thoughtful conversation about how they'll all work together. Still, Tyrion is playing with forces beyond his ken by bringing in Kinvara.
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Post by janicia on May 16, 2016 12:23:56 GMT
I used to assume that either Missandei or Greyworm would die and the other would be sad and stay in Dany's entourage. But now I'm thinking that Dany may leave them and a lot of the Unsullied behind in Mereen to govern. Because Dany can't leave Mereen without leadership she trusts, and a military to back them, or her gains will be reversed as they were in the other cities.
And Missandei and Greyworm are the only people Dany trusts that are passionate about Essos and slavery. Tyrion and Varys care about Westeros, and Jorah and Dario care about Dany.
So that kind of raises the stakes for the Missandei / Greyworm / Tyrion disagreements. They probably have until the end of the season to get Mereen into good enough shape that Missandei and Greyworm can rule it on their own, without Dany and Tyrion and Varys, and without dragons. And if they fail, Missandei and Greyworm will likely die and Dany's whole Slaver's Bay adventure will be completely in vain.
Or I guess the other option is that Tyrion, Missandei, Greyworm, and Varys screw up their rule of Mereen so badly that the remaining Dany supporters evacuate the city together by the end of the season.
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Post by janicia on May 16, 2016 8:00:05 GMT
I do feel like I'm missing something with Tyrion's exact negotiations. So the situation right now is that the masters control Yunkai and Astapor and have been funding the Sons of the Harpy movement within Mereen. Slavery is currently legal in both Yunkai and Astapor. Meanwhile, Dany's armies in Mereen do not currently have the capability to attack Yunkai or Astapor unless they give up on Mereen. Additionally, the entire economy of Slaver's Bay has been crushed.
So Tyrion offered that Yunkai and Astapor could keep slavery legal for the next 7 years, and in exchange, they would stop funding the SotH. But since slavery has already been re-legalized in Yunkai and Astapor, and Mereen has no ability to attack them right now, is Tyrion even offering them something of value? Because in exchange, he's asking them to commit to abolishing slavery in 7 years. Ending open hostilities would be beneficial to the efforts to rebuild the Slaver's Bay economy, but committing to the end of slavery wrecks their established economic system.
Ultimately I don't think it will matter much, because events will move quickly and Tyrion's negotiations will become moot, but it was just bothering me that all of the characters in the show seemed to think this was a great deal for the masters, when to me it looked like a pretty bad one.
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Post by janicia on May 16, 2016 6:45:22 GMT
I did think it was kinda maddening that Davos and Melissandre were on the cusp of talking about Shireen, but then they didn't.
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Post by janicia on May 16, 2016 5:45:30 GMT
The show is never going to have enough time to really flesh out the Mereen political scene, but I do think it is doing something interesting with the time they have. Tyrion is acting like a politician - slippery with his promises, always looking for a compromise / negotiation. But the Mereenese characters really haven't been acting as politicians. Dany has been acting like a goddess, and the rest have either been trying to live out chivalric ideals or have been yes men to Dany, or both. So Tyrion bringing politics into Mereen is jarring, and as an audience, it is easier to respect the chivalric ideals than the political sausage-making.
But also, Tyrion is being flippant and boozing it up and prostitute - adjacent, which he always is, but that is a huge culture clash against his current foils of Missandei, Greyworm, and Varys. And when he tells two former slaves that his week in slavery has taught him all he needs to know about slavery, he really truely does not come across as sympathetic or competent.
I'm not very invested in his negotiations with the rest of Slavers Bay - whatever happens in that plot line, these negotiations seem unlikely to bear important fruit. (I did think it was neat that they brought back two existing characters for those negotiations. GoT gets flak for the recasts, but obviously they care about character continuity if they're going to bother to bring back the Astapor dude.) Anyway, I do want Tyrion to have an arc this season, and I want him to learn and grow. And I think the show has done a nice job of showing a place where Tyrion can have meaningful growth. Tyrion has always relied on his connections and on being the smartest guy in the room, but he's never been great at getting people to like or trust him.
I also really like the effect that Tyrion is having on Missandei and Greyworm, who finally have something to do. Suddenly, they're discovering that they have personal political opinions and potentially a lot of power. I'm interested where that goes.
I did notice the tension between Tormund and Brienne, but I missed that it was sexual tension initially. Didn't think to look for flirtation in the messy eating of chicken.
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Post by janicia on May 9, 2016 18:47:16 GMT
Oh, fuck me. I don't know if I can handle that. I'm really attached to her...just realizing that now as I contemplate seeing her tortured to death. Your post about Osha pulling a book Mance in Winterfell would make me so happy if that really played out on the show. I could do without a character being horribly tortured/dying. Especially Osha, because I like her. I might be naive, but I am hoping for the best. My assumption is that Osha and Rickon will die horrible deaths this season. But if Bran was going to start influencing events, saving Osha and / or Rickon would be a hell of a way to do it, and would show the audience that Bran has powers worth caring about, which probably needs to happen this season, one way or another. I just really like the idea of Jon, Sansa, and Bran uniting to save Rickon. Alternatively, I kind of like the idea of LF ending up with Rickon, because Rickon would wipe the floor with Robin and then probably end up biting Littlefinger or something. I think Rickon might actually flummox LF. But given that Sansa just escaped from Ramsay and was rescued by Brienne, the Starks have probably used up their good luck for the season and the most likely outcome will probably happen to Ramsay's two newest victims.
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Post by janicia on May 9, 2016 14:21:17 GMT
I liked the Tyrion scene. It wasn't a high point of the episode or anything, but it emphasized the culture gap between Essos and Westeros. And it was an interesting contrast to Tyrion's easy rapport with Bronn, Shae, Pod, Ros, ect. Tyrion prides himself on being good at talking to people and being down-to-earth, but this season has emphasized Tyrion's annoying lord behaviors - drinking too much, inappropriate comments, taking his status for granted, inability to connect to people around him. Combine that with his risk-taking behavior so far this season, and the show could be setting up for an interesting Tyrion arc. We always talk about Dany learning to rule in Mereen, but Tyrion has things to learn too. He did a good job in his short tenure as Hand in Kings Landing, but Tyrion's resume is actually pretty thin - he has things to learn before he'll be ready to actually govern a county.
And I guess I'm in the minority, but I just love Missandei and Grey Worm's incredulous stares. And they were totally lying through their teeth that they only ever talk about the patrols. I appreciate that they don't like Tyrion and don't really trust him. Missandei and Grey Worm have followed Dany blindly. I like the idea of them having to start thinking for themselves now that they're stuck with Tyrion, and getting out of the habit of complete deference to Dany. Dany abandoning Mereen should have consequences, and one of those consequences should be that her dynamic with her followers changes. I also really liked that Smalljon wasn't at all fooled by Ramsay. At the end of book 5, the story I most desperately wanted more of was the Northern conspiracy, because these grizzled, badass Northerners were mesmerizing, even when their behavior is appalling. I don't think Smalljon is going to turn out to be a Stark loyalist with a long con, but I do think he might murder Ramsay. Whatever he does, it will be because he decided to do it. I'm glad that the "fuck all y'all" attitude of the north is coming through.
I hadn't really made the connection before, but Ned vs. Jaime fight of season 1 would have been, to Ned, an echo of the Ned vs Dayne fight. Ned faced an amazing Kingsguard swordsman both times, the loyal men with Ned died both times, but no Howland to save him in Kings Landing. At the same time, Dayne was a big deal to Ned, and in turn, Ned was a big deal to Jaime. The first time, Ned sought out the fight to get his sister back, the second time Jaime sought out the fight to get his brother back.
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Post by janicia on May 3, 2016 18:19:14 GMT
I agree, I do think Cersei is distancing herself from Tommen because she's convinced she'll lose him. Both to Margaery and also that he'll die prematurely. When she hugged both Jaime and Tommen, it really seemed like she was making an effort because that was what they needed / wanted from her, but the hug was forced on her end and she did not derive comfort from either of them.
I don't think Cersei would ever actively plot against Tommen. But she knows she can't count on him and she has no intention of letting him have decision-making authority. Her plots will probably attempt to keep Tommen sidelined, which will be a point of tension because he is trying to do his job and be the king.
At this point, if Cersei sends Jaime away, I think it will almost be an act of love, an attempt to spare him from the Greek Tragedy they're stuck in. Mixed in with the feeling that the relationship with Jaime stifles her at this point. But to get Jaime to leave, she might have to attempt the same thing Tyrion attempted to send away Shae, probably with similar tragic results. It would be sad and sort of wonderful if Cersei and Tyrion ended up in an awful parallel.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 23:08:47 GMT
I hope the show is kind of sparing in characters reacting to things other characters did a while ago. Sometimes it can be a great moment, like Tyrion and Jorah talking about Lord Mormont or Jaime figuring out that Brienne served Renly. But other times, it can just be annoying or boring, like Olenna telling Margaery about the Purple wedding. So I'm fine if we never have a moment where Davos reacts to Stannis' execution by Brienne, and maybe even Davos reacting to Melissandre burning Shireen and then abandoning Stannis. Maybe Davos will find out and have a reckoning with Melissandre at some point, but if it never goes resolved, it might be for the best. The show has to mostly keep moving forward. And when the audience knows as much as the characters do about specific events, it can be tricky to have the characters talk about them in an interesting way.
I think that might be why the scene where Brienne told Sansa about her encounter with Arya was so brief. Brienne might have skipped mentioning the Hound by name and getting into the particulars of the interaction because the writers didn't think a scene in which Brienne and Sansa compared notes on the Hound would be particularly interesting. "He was gruff but protective of me." "I bit his ear off". "Oh".
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 18:43:16 GMT
Husband was so excited about young Hodor.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 14:59:55 GMT
I thought it was interesting that the episode made a point of young Hodor speaking, which raises the possibility that we'll find out what happened to him. I know this is far-fetched, but I wonder if it will end up being related to the reason that Benjen joined the watch. After the war, when Ned was the only remaining adult Stark, his wife was "foreign", his children were small, and the northern lords were resenting the lack of marriage alliances with the Stark family, Benjen had a duty to marry a northern lady and stick around to support Ned and serve as emergency back-up Stark. It was a scary time, right after civil war, with trouble brewing with the Ironborne, and Ned and Benjen had both already lost so much family. Instead Benjen left to serve in the Night's Watch. Maybe the reason will never be revealed, but I feel like there must have either been a crime that Benjen committed, or he must have been exposed to some kind of prophecy. Either way, I wonder if that is the event that changed Hodor. I'm excited about the north plot this season, with the smaller lords converging and the two bastards heading up the factions. I think we would know if Benjen joined the Watch for a crime. I know I'm being far-fetched here, but I don't think we would know. Ned can definitely keep a secret, and Ned managed to get his whole castle staff to keep quiet to both Catelyn and the kids about other things. If Benjen committed a crime and then went to serve his punishment with honor at Castle Black, why would Ned tarnish Benjen's name by telling people the whole story? Further, we know that Ned raised Jon with the intention of sending him to join the Night's Watch in order to protect Jon from Robert and to prevent inheritance issues and civil war. We know that Ned sold Jon on a romanticized version of the Night's Watch so that he would go willingly, concealing that the Night's Watch was basically a penal colony. Implying to Jon that his uncle had gone willingly, rather than revealing that his uncle was another of the criminals, makes some sense. Finally, Ned was very honor-bound, and it might not have taken a very serious crime to get Benjen sent to the Wall.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 14:38:36 GMT
I thought it was interesting that the episode made a point of young Hodor speaking, which raises the possibility that we'll find out what happened to him. I know this is far-fetched, but I wonder if it will end up being related to the reason that Benjen joined the watch. After the war, when Ned was the only remaining adult Stark, his wife was "foreign", his children were small, and the northern lords were resenting the lack of marriage alliances with the Stark family, Benjen had a duty to marry a northern lady and stick around to support Ned and serve as emergency back-up Stark. It was a scary time, right after civil war, with trouble brewing with the Ironborne, and Ned and Benjen had both already lost so much family. Instead Benjen left to serve in the Night's Watch. Maybe the reason will never be revealed, but I feel like there must have either been a crime that Benjen committed, or he must have been exposed to some kind of prophecy. Either way, I wonder if that is the event that changed Hodor.
I'm excited about the north plot this season, with the smaller lords converging and the two bastards heading up the factions.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 13:07:28 GMT
I don't think Cersei sees it like that at all, not when it comes to her children. Cersei Lannister is many things but she has always been a loving and caring mother to her children. Whatever her plans are they are against the Faith and I think she means to help Tommen. He is after all the last child she has left. Agree completely. Cersei sees her children as an extension of herself. Any power she has is from and through them, and she's well aware. But Cersei knows that one of Tommen's top goals is getting Margaery back, and that Tommen is more inclined to listen to Margaery than to her. Cersei loved Joffrey too, but she resented it when he made power grabs against her. She isn't a mother that reacts gracefully to her children growing up. I do think that Cersei backed down in this episode because of her love of Tommen, and that she'll do anything to protect him, but I think she's also aware that she's going to be locked into a power struggle with Tommen going forward.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 12:17:17 GMT
I though it was interesting that both Cersei and the Black Brothers backed down rather than fight - I thought both situations would be resolved more violently. It was a relief both times, but surely setting up for more tension later because it leaves those issues unresolved. I'm finding it hard to get a read on Cersei right now - clearly she loves Tommen, but I also think she sees him as competitor for power. And I doubt that she's forgiven him for being weak when she needed him, or for barring her from going to Myrcella's funeral without even talking to her about it.
I feel like Brienne was less than honest with Sansa about her encounter with Arya. She didn't mention that she left Arya's protector for dead, did she? And she didn't mention that the guy was the Hound. If Brienne is going to be Sansa's most trusted guardian, she's going to need to tell Sansa hard truths.
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Post by janicia on May 2, 2016 3:00:55 GMT
I've never put much stock in the theories about Tyrion being a dragon rider, but after seeing his rapport with the dragons, I'm warming up to the idea. I did wonder why he didn't bring Missandei to ease the introduction to the dragons, but maybe it is best if he doesn't involve Missandei in his hairbrained schemes. Tyrion getting close to the dragons could become a point of tension once Dany returns, though. I bet she'll feel territorial with her babies.
I thought that Theon's decision to go to the Iron Islands, while not particularly rational, was sold pretty well. I totally believe that Theon would be strongly averse to facing Jon - both because Jon is an embodiment of male Starkishness that Theon betrayed and because Theon used to look down on Jon and can't really deal with their new relative status.
I thought it was interesting that Melissandre's spell was very different from Thoros'.
My husband really liked young Hodor.
Ramsay killing Bolton at that moment made sense, but I was disappointed that Bolton didn't anticipate it. Of course in the books it seems like Bolton should have killed Ramsay a long time ago too, because Ramsay is such a threat to his rule and to him personally. Poor Walda.
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