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Post by janicia on Jun 21, 2016 0:48:34 GMT
So I do hope that Jon and Davos take their failures of military leadership to heart. They really need a better general. Maybe they can poach Yohn Royce from LF. On rewatch, their failings really stood out to me. Jon should have pointed at somebody and told him to fetch Rickon - as a general he has a responsibility to not go charging off. Davos has a responsibility to stick to the plan and not order a suicide charge to follow Jon's suicide charge. Also, as long as Davos stayed back with the archers, it wasn't easy for Ramsay to encircle. Ramsay's volleys were killing a lot of his own men.
Without LF, they were probably screwed either way. And both men were feeling suicidal, which probably did factor into decision making. And I don't blame them for not being awesome generals - that is a particular skill set that neither has focused on honing. Davos is a politician, and Jon's premature promotion to Lord Commander came with a bunch of governance and survival issues that took precedence over focusing on developing as a general. But they need a real general to take on the White Walkers. And now that I think about it, who are the living skilled Westerosi generals? Randall Tarly is supposed to be good, right? And Jaime is kind of a general, but it hasn't been his focus and his devastating defeat by Robb back in S1 (which I think is the only battle he's actually been a general for) doesn't really recommend him. And Yohn. So I guess it will be Dany's military advisors who will be doing most of the military strategizing going forward, though most of them have also been prematurely promoted, having skipped some important steps.
I do hope that Tormund yells at Jon and Davos for their suicidal screw-ups. And I hope that they learn and do better next time. Because there will be a next time.
On a lighter note, I did think it was notable that neither Jon nor Ramsay gave a speech to his men before the battle. Umber rallied his men with a speech, but neither bastard bothered. Ramsay maybe thought that the burning flayed men were all the morale his troops needed? And maybe it didn't even occur to Jon, since he'd already explained the stakes to everybody; why tell them again? Both being bastards of northern lords, of the same age, desperately wanting to prove themselves, Jon and Ramsay did have a lot of similarities, and it was a neat touch to give them one more thing in common.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 18:43:23 GMT
It was a rare, crowd-pleasing episode, which makes me suspicious. I get that the Starks need a central strategic location to plan for the impending war from the White Walkers. They couldn't take it without losing Rickon. So I hope they get their shit together in time for the Northern invasion. Who knows what sacrifices will be made when shit gets real. Some bad stuff is surely going to happen next episode - lots of speculation that the Wall will come down and that Cersi will explode Kings Landing. There had to be some wins or this story just becomes horribly bleak.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 18:38:53 GMT
The Yara scene in this episode really cemented Yara's competency for me.
We've know the whole time that her men are fiercely loyal to her. But it hasn't really been clear why. Most of her achievements have been offscreen, as have all of her relationships with subordinates, and mostly we've watched her struggling unsuccessfully with her messed-up family and failing to rescue Theon and failing at the Kingsmoot. But she played the meeting with Dany perfectly. She let Theon take lead initially, since he and Tyrion knew each other and the male heir is supposed to be more important, but really that was a chance for her to get a read on Dany. When Yara spoke, it was targeted perfectly for Dany. Yara repeatedly drew parallels between herself and Dany, but was also appropriately self-deprecating and made a point of putting all her cards on the table, and threw in some successful flirting. Dany chooses her inner circle based on her gut feeling about people, and Yara got a seat at that table within 5 minutes, while also getting major political concessions.
I don't think Dany got played; I think this alliance is good for her. Dany needs allies with ships, and more importantly, needs backing from Westerosis who honestly want her as their queen. Dany can show up to future meetings with Yara in tow, which could be helpful if Tyrion's hatred of everybody proves problematic. The meeting was good for both parties. But Yara really played it well, and I'm glad. I've always wanted to root for her, but there hasn't been much to root for before now.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 18:10:47 GMT
I imagine after a few more meetings with Westerosi in which Tyrion airs his grudges, Dany will ask him "um, do you hate every Westerosi you know?" to be fair theon was a shitty person when tyrion knew him. I suppose they will talk on the way to westeros. I loved the reminder of the wildfire caches btw. Mad!Cersei! hype! Sure, Theon was an entitled jerk, but we only saw them interact once in Wintefell, and Theon was on pretty good behavior. Tyrion ripped into him because Tyrion was in a bad mood and doesn't like Greyjoys. But their recent meeting implies that there was another offscreen interaction in which Theon made a dwarf joke, which could justify Tyrion's hostility in the interaction I linked above. Or maybe Tyrion just remembers it wrong. The Starks were at pains to treat the royal encourage as honored guests, and it seems unlikely that Theon would have found it wise to antagonize the Queen's brother against Ned's direct orders. But I could see Theon making some smart-ass comment about "towering wisdom".
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 13:09:49 GMT
I imagine after a few more meetings with Westerosi in which Tyrion airs his grudges, Dany will ask him "um, do you hate every Westerosi you know?"
I don't think we ever had a Tyrion/Margary scene, did we? Tyrion was intimidated by Olenna but I think he respects her and believes her to be competent and decent. But the Tyrell's let him be the fall guy for murdering Joffrey and participated in his trial, so actually, he probably does not have any good will for them.
I am looking forward to an eventual Tyrion/Sansa reunion. I don't want them to end up together. But their marriage was characterized by Sansa never saying anything, and this time she'd talk. I like the idea that they will be able to cement an important alliance because they do have a bond of trust from when they were married.
Anyway, Tyrion loves Tommen and Jaime, and he liked Sansa and felt protective of her. He liked Jon enough to give him some advice. He misses drinking with Bronn, and of course he wants good things for Pod. And I think he hates everybody else that he knows who isn't team Dany.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 5:14:47 GMT
I really liked Tormund muttering "Don't do it" at Jon. Because Tormund didn't care about Rickon, he cared about the survival of his people, and Jon losing his head and screwing up the strategy was a harsh blow to Tormund and his men's chance of survival. But then Tormund and all of the Wildlings followed Jon as they said they would.
Edit: Jon really did screw up, and it would have led to the extermination of the Wildlings if LF hadn't saved them. But I just liked that character moment for Tormund - he sees Jon's flaw and he knows what is going to happen and he knows they don't have the men to be successful in that charge. Tormund has this awful moment of knowing that they've lost the battle, and then he goes in and fights it anyway.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 4:54:49 GMT
I hope the beautiful death poster goes to either rickon or wun wun instead of the dog food I'm betting there will be a more significant death than any of those three.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 4:51:34 GMT
A thousand Dothraki charge a piddling group of Harpys shaking down an inexplicable group of Meereenise outside the gates, huh?, a budget constraint? Mereen is a mostly civilian population, mostly supporting Dany. The Dothraki wouldn't have been given permission to sack the city, and nothing they can do about the boats in the harbor. What did you want them to do? Riding up to the gates, killing a few enemies that were ?trying to take the gates? - that is as much as you could really ask them to contribute to this particular struggle. I think the actual point of that scene was to establish that Dany doesn't have to wait for them - if she wants she can start loading her ships tomorrow.
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Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 4:40:23 GMT
RIP Rickon and Wun-Wun. The Starks have seriously been through so much but I guess the ones that are left are the ones with the plot armor, Jon's was at Arya level this week. The scene with Tyrion dressing down Theon was excellent. Best work Dinklage has done all season. I can't say I was too worried about how Meereen would turn out. Well, Jon is alive because a God wanted him to be alive. That God had bigger fish to fry than Ramsay Bolton. If that God is remotely worth its salt, which one assumes it is since it can bring back the dead, you'd think it could give Jon a little battlefield protection and keep stray arrows from hitting him. Also, Jon had a far better sword than anybody else and is significantly better at using it than an average Bolton soldier, so it made sense that he would do well in the single-combat melee. Tyrion was such a dick to Theon when they first met. Sure, I guess Theon made a dwarf joke, but Tyrion was pretty brutal about his captive status and Tyrion mocked Theon about Tyrion's superior tips and whoring skills. So it felt kinda obnoxious that Tyrion only remembered Theon's dickishness and forgot his own. But sure, nobody likes the Greyjoys, and Yara had to win Dany over by the force of her personality rather than her name or connections, which I liked.
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Promo
Jun 20, 2016 4:23:07 GMT
Post by janicia on Jun 20, 2016 4:23:07 GMT
There is so much stuff for the finale to wrap up:
Frey massacre must surely be happening.
Several scenes at Winterfell - Jon talks to Mel and Davos, Jon and Sansa talk, Littlefinger and Sansa talk
Cersei and Loras' trial. cersei starts fires. Big stuff happening in Kings Landing.
Dany gets on those ships
Bran finishes the ToJ and prophesies dany&jon?
Probably a white-walker check-in
Maybe Arya arriving somewhere.
Sam arriving at the citadel.
Maybe Euron?
Dorne check-in.
That's just a ton of ground to cover. I'm so excited.
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Post by janicia on Jun 13, 2016 16:29:40 GMT
Honestly I don't think the crown cares about anywhere that isn't immediately nearby. The Dornish killed the princess and all we got was one throwaway mention by Jaime. I'm sure their primary goal is to deal with what's going on King's Landing, then they'll turn their attention to the North and Dorne. The Lannisters did sign off on the Red Wedding, remember Tywin's line to Tyrion better to kill 12 men at dinner than have your army cut down or something like that? The Freys were given Riverrun, The Boltons got Winterfell and Wardenship of North (plus Ramsey is made a Bolton) so yeah, the crown basically signed off on that and that's technically the Lannisters. We don't know if Tywin made an official alliance with the Boltons or Freys. I'd say having Jaime go to get Riverrun out of Tully control indicates an alliance with the Freys at least. Tywin privately signed off on Roose's actions, but Tywin did not officially endorse the Red Wedding. He made sure the Freys took credit. I know Kings Landing is focused on its own troubles for now and has no intention of doing anything about the North anytime soon. They probably have a vague plan of sorting it out in the spring. But for all that people keep saying that the war of the 5 kings is over, the Iron Islands and the North are acting as independent states that are not under control of the crown, and although both states are in civil war currently, none of the factions wants to go back to being under the control of the crown. Littlefinger is the only political actor making any moves toward reuniting Westeros, which is kinda interesting.
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Post by janicia on Jun 13, 2016 14:56:31 GMT
I've been wondering for a while what the King's official stance is on the political status of the North. The Starks are traitors. The Boltons were given the Wardenship of the North, but the Lannisters never officially signed off of the Red Wedding. Not sure if Tywin made an official alliance with the Boltons? Then the Boltons officially aligned themselves with the Starks. So now they're all traitors. But then the Starks raised an army against the Boltons... So does that make the crown happier with the Boltons, or just displeased with their incompetence? Oddly enough, the North is still de facto independent from the crown, but Littlefinger is a serious threat to that.
I thought the whole mess of that situation gave Jaime enough plausible leeway to agree to send the Blackfish up there with his army. He could have made the same argument that Littlefinger made - "I was hoping that our enemies would just kill each other off."
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Post by janicia on Jun 13, 2016 14:34:40 GMT
I suspect that Arya leaving the faceless men will go down differently in the books.
I don't like the theories that the Faceless men were stalking 10 year old Arya in order to recruit her for some cosmic mission. For one thing, I just don't see how she could be so earth-shatteringly important to them. For another, it cheapens Arya's journey and her accomplishments if she had Faceless men stalking and protecting her the whole time. The Faceless men as an organization really don't make much sense. For instance, if "Jaqen" is wearing that face so Arya feels more comfortable, isn't that kinda weird? He's been wearing that face for like a year now. Is Arya's comfort level really the most important thing going on in his life? As in the books, the Waif's status has not been clarified, the number of faceless men is not known, the way the faces are used is mysterious. Also completely unclear how the poison pool works. And closely entertained the Faceless men are to the Iron bank. But whatever, death cult that we see through the eyes of a child, some things are going to be wonky.
OH dear, I just realized that Arya was unsupervised in the hall of faces again. She must have taken at least one of the faces, because she needed to clear a space for the Waif's face. Wonder what face she took.
One casualty of the show's time constraints is that it is hard to show a character making a mix of good decisions and bad decisions. Each character has maybe an hour of screen time per season, so they each only do a handful of things. If they do two dumb things in a row, people feel that you're portraying them as morons. If they only do smart things, you're portraying them as superheroes. It has been frustrating this season that Tyrion and Sansa have been misstepping because it doesn't feel good and it makes us all wonder if those characters are just permanently stupid now. I think the missteps this season are probably setting up for the characters to figure things out and be more effective next season, but I get why people are nervous about it.
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Post by janicia on Jun 13, 2016 13:48:41 GMT
Heh, so it was a BWB splinter group, and no LS. I got that wrong. I'm really curious how much Riverlands stuff they can pack into the finale. Kings Landing and Mereen both have big stuff to do in the finale, presumably, and some other check-ins, so that doesn't leave much time for Riverlands. But they got all the guys together, surely something will come from that.
I was correct that they were playing it straight with Arya last episode. All the face-swap speculation seemed like implausible book theory territory, but the show doesn't mess around much with hidden identities. I agree that some of the Arya stuff was implausible or kinda clumsy. But I do find it plausible that Arya is better with that sword than the Waif expected - Arya was training with that sword for a while while running around with Sandor, and the Waif never saw her use it. Also, Arya was recently blind, and if the Waif was ever blind it wasn't as recent. Poor Lady Crane.
I think the brothers Clegane might still face off, but there will have to be some twists first. Sandor doesn't have a reason to go to Kings Landing, and Gregor doesn't have a reason to leave, but that could all change. On the other hand, I think it is possible that Jaime and Bronn will have to kill Gregor in the finale to stop Cersei. I'm sort of worried for Bronn.
I'm finding it pretty weird that other characters are so insistent about Sandor's purpose. I'm trying to remember who else kept being told they had a higher purpose besides Bran. Maybe Sandor is going to be important vs. White Walkers somehow? Or maybe he's the vessel of the Gods to kill Walder Frey.
I do wish that Tyrion had been given more to do in Mereen this season, but on the other hand, I'm not sure that we care that much about Merenese politics. Maybe we saw as much as we needed to. It was just kind of frustrating that a lot of what we saw was Tyrion being obnoxious. Still, I'm glad he's finally warming up Greyworm and Missandei. Dany won't be completely pleased with his decisions, I'm guessing. Is it suspicious that Varys appeared right after Dany left Mereen and disappeared right before she returned? Could Varys be avoiding Dany? I guess he did coordinate an assassination attempt on her and her unborn baby, so avoiding her might be wise.
Curious where Arya will go. She can steal enough money to buy passage to any shipping destination in Westeros, so she has choices. It is unclear if Arya knows about Sansa's marriage to Ramsay, but that wasn't a secret so Arya has probably heard about it. So Arya would think that Sansa is in Winterfell and that Jon is still at the Wall. My guess is that Arya will try to get to Winterfell.
I thought it was a shame we didn't see Margary this episode, but I think it is a shame every episode that we don't see Margary. I do believe that she must have a plan for saving Loras. Maybe it is the plan she enunciated to Olenna - have him renounce his titles and leave Kings Landing. But Margary changed her stance upon seeing Loras, and a large part of what she's doing now is motivated to protect him. I think she'll fail, but I want to see what her plan was.
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Post by janicia on Jun 13, 2016 12:44:10 GMT
Kevan's announcement to Cersei was very reminiscent of Tywin's argument with Joffrey over the small council meetings.
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Post by janicia on Jun 7, 2016 16:22:46 GMT
A couple of other thoughts about book/show discrepancies:
The show doesn't have the Aegon invasion with the sellswords. I'm guessing that the Dornish insurgency will substitute, especially if the Dornish end up backing Aegon in the books. Which is actually similar to something I've argued in the past; I just assumed that Trystane and Myrcella would be alive during the show's Dornish insurgency and lend it political legitimacy.
In the books, Euron sends Victarion to Dany. Victarion plans to betray Euron and make his own alliance with Dany. Euron attacks the Reach. Presumably Euron, having anticipated Victarion's betrayal, has a plan to get Dany from Victarion.
In the show, Yara has a large a head start on Euron to get to Mereen. Maybe Yara will slot into the Victarion slot after all, by arriving in Mereen, making an alliance with Dany, and then having to face down Euron at some future time. Further, maybe Euron will attack the Reach in the show, both to put pressure on the Tyrell's and because it really seems like something important must happen in Oldtown or they wouldn't bother bringing it into the narrative.
I still think that somebody is going to murder Kevan and Pycelle this season, and I'm still leaning toward Sandsnakes. But Varys returning to Kings Landing as part of Dany's advance preparations is semi-plausible. Or Varys just hiring an assassin. Or the sparrows, maybe, in a reveal that they're as corrupt as everything else. Or Littlefinger, just because. Maybe even Margaery or Cersei. Anyway, surely those two are going to be murdered.
It has been interesting how much published book material this season has actually included. I expect the last three episodes to have some significant moments and reveals, but the season has spent a lot of time catching up on book plot threads, and some of the plots that are beyond the books, like Mereen and Kings Landing, haven't moved forward much. Not a complaint at all - I think this has been a great season and I'm very excited for the next episodes.
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Post by janicia on Jun 7, 2016 16:05:08 GMT
So, an unsullied reactor said something that is another tiny clue in favor of Stoneheart. After the Brotherhood killed the Hound's friends he was going on about how nobody can be happy in Westeros and fuck this and that, and those poor people. And then he said "Damn, they didn't even take the women. They just killed them. I mean, I know taking them is terrible too, but damn." It could be they're just not rapists, but it seems most marauding murderers in Westeros are, so why not them? Could it be because the Lady won't let them? Yeah, that is notable - Sandor even listed off the valuables that the group possessed - food, metal tools, and women. And then the BWB came in and killed the women, left the tools. Maybe they took some food, but it looked like food was just spilled on the ground. So this wasn't just a splinter group of mauraders living off the peasants and using the BWB brand name - mauraders would have raped and stolen. This is a group that has bigger goals and discipline. This was a group that attacks just to punish people for disrespect. Also, Lemoncloak was obviously one of the BWB guys, which points to this being the actual BWB and not a splinter group.
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Post by janicia on Jun 7, 2016 4:17:23 GMT
I bet Tywin drilled an appreciation for the complexities of threatening people into his kids. Jaime upbraiding the Freys was a similar scene to Tyrion telling Trant about the difference between educating people and threatening people.
I'm starting to think Stoneheart might happen after all in the show. Something bad happened to the BWB - obviously it isn't one cohesive group being led by Thoros and Beric anymore. At minimum, it has vicious splinter groups, and possibly the whole thing has gone bad. Also, the BWB has shifted focus to attacking Freys, which points toward stoneheart. Finally, there aren't any other named characters to be running the organization. Blackfish is obviously not part of the BWB. Sansa and Jon aren't. Thoros and Beric were protecting the common folk and didn't have a reason to focus on the Freys. Years ago, I argued that a decent way to introduce Stoneheart would be through Bran's visions. I guess that could still hold true now, but alternatively, an unhappy Thoros could just exposit the situation to Sandor or Brienne.
I don't really understand why people get so excited about Cleganebowl, in part because I don't see how Sandor could plausibly win. Also, I thought Cersei's death was supposed to be wrapped up in her family drama with Jaime, and I don't see how losing a trial by combat fits in. But Sandor is off to do something, and I cheer that wholeheartedly. I really liked his more mellow side, and thought his expression when the Septon poked him in the leg particularly hilarious.
I agree with points that people made about the Arya scene - Arya was acting weird, Arya presented herself as an easy target, the Waif failed to act as a proper Faceless man. But I don't buy the theories that somebody else disguised himself as Arya to protect her. The narrative here is Arya's narrative, not the waif's. Spending precious screen time on the waif having a really bad day only makes sense as a cheap Arya death fake-out, which the show has made a point of not doing. Further, it doesn't seem like putting on somebody else's face makes your body the same size as theirs, and both Jaqen and Sirio are a lot bigger than Arya. And finally, it seemed like Jaqen laid out clear rules for Arya - her life was forfeit if she failed her second assassination. Why would he bend the rules in such a bizarre way after authorizing the assassination? I think the point of the scene was supposed to be that Arya was shedding her faceless man identity and grasping for a new one, and that in her excitement, she forgot caution.
I think the show is trying to write that the characters are still learning and growing and screwing up. Tyrion says stupid stuff and doesn't know as much as he thinks. Sansa and Jon are wrestling with being the political faces for a Westerosi army, a role that is new to them both. Arya overestimates herself and lets her guard down. Sometimes Dany puts emotions before reason.
I don't have an explanation for Arya's magical jumping next episode unless she does receive supernatural help. But I really don't see the point of a fake Arya taking the stabbing.
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Post by janicia on Jun 6, 2016 15:39:50 GMT
I really liked the exchange between Sandor and the Septon:
"If the Gods are real, why haven't they punished me for my sins?" "They have"
And that exchange echoed and defined some of the stuff with Theon and Cersei and the Stark-family-as-a-whole as well; other characters who have sinned and have been punished and where the question of damage beyond restoration/redemption is being pondered.
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Post by janicia on May 31, 2016 18:33:07 GMT
I liked that there seemed to be inner conflict brewing with Daario. He definitely thinks she should be queen of the world and incredibly hot, and he wants to be her consort. But it isn't really in his nature to be a follower - if she's just going to treat him as one follower among many, I think he's going to abandon her. I could totally see one of the Westerosi power players tempting him to betray her next season. Or Daario refusing to go along with the Greyjoy plan and Dany executing/exiling him for insubordination.
I think the show is holding onto Cersei's infidelity with Lancel to deploy at an important time. If the speculation that Jaime ends up killing Cersei is true, he should probably learn of the infidelity in that season. And if Jaime doesn't end up killing Cersei, that might have been their final goodbye and I don't begrudge them a happy moment.
I did like that it was Tommen that sent Jaime to the Riverlands, since it wouldn't have made sense for show Jaime and Cersei to decide to send Jaime there. I've been saying for years that I wanted Cersei and Jaime to have to deal with Tommen as their king - a real person with an agenda different from theirs. That day has come.
Such a funny detail that Mace has somebody leading his horse. I wonder if Olenna instituted that policy after his father rode off a cliff. It is a little frustrating because we don't know the full situation, but it seems like Cersei is still confined to the tower, so she's forcibly removed from a lot of the action. And both Jaime and Olenna screwed up by not paying enough attention to Tommen's interactions with the High Sparrow. Margaery had no way of communicating with them, and she already knows that Tommen can't deal with machinations so she has to play it straight with him. Olenna, in particular, should have been paying attention to Tommen, as the only outlet that she had for getting messages from Margaery. And Jaime should have been paying attention to his own Kingsguard, who obviously had enough time to redecorate their armor. It is unclear how much Kevan knew and when he knew it, but he is definitely positioned contrary to both Cersei and Olenna now.
I liked that Arya recognized similarities that she has to Cersei - similarities that Tywin saw way back in season 2. The whole use of the Braavosi play in Arya's arc was really good.
Regarding Benjen/Coldhands - why are we assuming that Coldhands is a one-off in the books? I agree with KingTommen that Benjen can't plausibly be alive north of the Wall after all this time. But in the books, maybe he's another "good wight" like Coldhands. Or he's just a loose end like Tyrion's adventurous uncle - some dude that went off and died and nothing more came of it, because that's what happens sometimes.
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