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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 10:52:41 GMT
I don't think his rebirth would be right there and then btw. I agree with some other people who've posted and said that he should be left dead for a few episodes, just to let the wound sting a bit. My cold open guess would only be to let them know who he was, to maybe give them hope for his narrative potential but not actually to give them him back again. I still have yet to hear any one of you guys who keep saying this give one seriously logical story reason why this makes any sense whatsoever to drag out his death for several episodes, half the season, or even as some have said, the end of the season... "Because it will string the audience along and make for more drama" is not a good answer. Give me a logical plot driven reason why he should be kept on ice or the story skipped and still make sense or have a greater impact if you want to convince me of this theory. The Night's Watch doesn't burn him right away, why? We watch him run around the forest as Ghost? ... Give me something here you think will be a well written story reason for Jon Snow to remain 'dead' for how long in Season 6? Otherwise, I remain, as ever, the fence sitting skeptical crow. "Corn!" (My avatar on AFOIAF)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 11:05:45 GMT
I still have yet to hear any one of you guys who keep saying this give one seriously logical story reason why this makes any sense whatsoever to drag out his death for several episodes, half the season, or even as some have said, the end of the season... "Because it will string the audience along and make for more drama" is not a good answer. Give me a logical plot driven reason why he should be kept on ice or the story skipped and still make sense or have a greater impact if you want to convince me of this theory. The Night's Watch doesn't burn him right away, why? We watch him run around the forest as Ghost? ... Give me something here you think will be a well written story reason for Jon Snow to remain 'dead' for how long in Season 6? It's to do with the stakes of his death. If he comes back immediately it would just have been a cheap "gotcha!" moment and I don't think that's GrrM's M.O. Now I don't think he'll come back TOO late, by the early midseason at the latest I'd say but, even though it's sunk in that he's dead to the audience by now, I think we have to see it sink in with the characters around him before he returns. In the meantime they can give us hope that he might return perhaps (by Mel, Davos or Edd preserving the body for instance) but I think if he came back in 601/very early in TWOW that would really cheapen the point of ending that arc with that moment in ADWD/s5.
Plus I think his soul's experience whilst dead is important. Whether it's just in Ghost or he shares some sort of Weirwood dream with Bran or whatever, this all has to change him a great deal. IMO it will darken him and take away his idealism and moral absolutism. And for this to have the weight it needs he'd have to remain dead at least for two or three eps.
Also we should keep in mind that the early episodes will have a lot of narrative weight to carry in the non-Wall storylines. So they might not have the time to get all of the storyline leading to his coming back out of the way before ep. 603 or ep. 604. Which is around when I think it'll go down.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 11:10:29 GMT
Yeah. His dead would feel like a cheap shocker if he comes back almost immediately.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 11:12:04 GMT
Yeah. His dead would feel like a cheap shocker if he comes back almost immediately. Or even worse it'd seem like GrrM going "shit, how do I end this...Oh I'll pretend to kill him!" Which would be even cheaper.
Thankfully, I think this has been set up to mean quite a bit more than just that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 12:59:19 GMT
I'm still stuck on the logistics of a dead body. Unless they slow the story at the Wall to a crawl while everything else moves forward in time at a normal pace OR they simply don't show us the Wall, Jon's body has to burn in the first episode. They're not going to let him lie around and rot or become a wight. So they'll have to burn him. We know they're not going to recast Jon Snow as a different actor. So he can't be burnt up and then rise several episodes later. Someone said that Olly is going to be in 9 episodes this season. If that's true, we'll definitely be at the Wall in the first episode. It's not that I don't get the idea of putting it off to increase the impact. It's just that logistically, I don't see any way for that to work.
So, I'm going to stick my neck out and go for an early season TOJ/AA resurrection.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 13:33:07 GMT
I don't think his rebirth would be right there and then btw. I agree with some other people who've posted and said that he should be left dead for a few episodes, just to let the wound sting a bit. My cold open guess would only be to let them know who he was, to maybe give them hope for his narrative potential but not actually to give them him back again. I still have yet to hear any one of you guys who keep saying this give one seriously logical story reason why this makes any sense whatsoever to drag out his death for several episodes, half the season, or even as some have said, the end of the season... "Because it will string the audience along and make for more drama" is not a good answer. Give me a logical plot driven reason why he should be kept on ice or the story skipped and still make sense or have a greater impact if you want to convince me of this theory. The Night's Watch doesn't burn him right away, why? We watch him run around the forest as Ghost? ... Give me something here you think will be a well written story reason for Jon Snow to remain 'dead' for how long in Season 6? Ooh, getting sassy. I'm still stuck on the logistics of a dead body. Unless they slow the story at the Wall to a crawl while everything else moves forward in time at a normal pace OR they simply don't show us the Wall, Jon's body has to burn in the first episode. They're not going to let him lie around and rot or become a wight. So they'll have to burn him. We know they're not going to recast Jon Snow as a different actor. So he can't be burnt up and then rise several episodes later. Someone said that Olly is going to be in 9 episodes this season. If that's true, we'll definitely be at the Wall in the first episode. It's not that I don't get the idea of putting it off to increase the impact. It's just that logistically, I don't see any way for that to work. So, I'm going to stick my neck out and go for an early season TOJ/AA resurrection. What if they don't want to treat Jon's corpse with respect and give him a proper funeral pyre? Robb's body was mutilated and Cat's was thrown in the river. What if the Night's Watch decides to just toss him over the wall as a sign of disrespect?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 13:43:07 GMT
I still have yet to hear any one of you guys who keep saying this give one seriously logical story reason why this makes any sense whatsoever to drag out his death for several episodes, half the season, or even as some have said, the end of the season... "Because it will string the audience along and make for more drama" is not a good answer. Give me a logical plot driven reason why he should be kept on ice or the story skipped and still make sense or have a greater impact if you want to convince me of this theory. The Night's Watch doesn't burn him right away, why? We watch him run around the forest as Ghost? ... Give me something here you think will be a well written story reason for Jon Snow to remain 'dead' for how long in Season 6? Ooh, getting sassy. I'm still stuck on the logistics of a dead body. Unless they slow the story at the Wall to a crawl while everything else moves forward in time at a normal pace OR they simply don't show us the Wall, Jon's body has to burn in the first episode. They're not going to let him lie around and rot or become a wight. So they'll have to burn him. We know they're not going to recast Jon Snow as a different actor. So he can't be burnt up and then rise several episodes later. Someone said that Olly is going to be in 9 episodes this season. If that's true, we'll definitely be at the Wall in the first episode. It's not that I don't get the idea of putting it off to increase the impact. It's just that logistically, I don't see any way for that to work. So, I'm going to stick my neck out and go for an early season TOJ/AA resurrection. What if they don't want to treat Jon's corpse with respect and give him a proper funeral pyre? Robb's body was mutilated and Cat's was thrown in the river. What if the Night's Watch decides to just toss him over the wall as a sign of disrespect? Damn it. DAMN IT! This is a possibility and a potential way to put it all off. And it would be so disrespectful and terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 13:46:06 GMT
I'm still not over Grey Wind's head on Robb's body or Catelyn getting tossed in the river or Sansa getting raped. Stop disrespecting Stark bodies! Okay, done now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 13:47:27 GMT
And people cutting Bran's legs!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 13:50:08 GMT
And people cutting Bran's legs! Yes, and poor Bran getting pushed out the window and his leg cut. Damn, it's hard being a Stark lover. Edit: Which looks funny even to me coming from my Cersei avatar.
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Post by King Tommen on Aug 16, 2015 14:28:59 GMT
I personally don't think the ToJ scene will be connected to Jon's resurrection. One really doesn't have to do with the other. Jon doesn't get resurrected because he's a Targaryen, he gets resurrected because Mel knows how to do it and wants to have him alive.
I'm in the camp that thinks he gets resurrected early in the season (maybe final scene of premiere even) but the ToJ flashback will be a Bran vision which happens later on (maybe mid-season). It probably will be connected thematically to a newly resurrected Jon wondering what his purpose is now that he's still alive and presumably not with the NW anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 14:40:24 GMT
Btw @witchy, you misunderstood. No one said that Olly's in 9 episodes this season. It was just Father of Dragons saying that the twat was in 9 episodes last season. Hopefully the bastard dies early.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 14:43:53 GMT
And people cutting Bran's legs! Yes, and poor Bran getting pushed out the window and his leg cut. Damn, it's hard being a Stark lover. Edit: Which looks funny even to me coming from my Cersei avatar. Well, it's not so good with Lannisters either. One got his hand chopped off, one his nose, one got stripped naked in public, another one got crossbow'd when taking a shit, one got poisoned in his wedding and one even got killed by a horse! And Baratheons... one got killed by a pig, another one got slain by a shadow, one got burned to death because EPISODE 9 SHOCKING!!!11 and one was defeated and killed offscreen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:20:55 GMT
Btw @witchy, you misunderstood. No one said that Olly's in 9 episodes this season. It was just Father of Dragons saying that the twat was in 9 episodes last season. Hopefully the bastard dies early. Oh, thank God! Or the gods, or whatever deity you want to thank. I must have read that last night post-partaking or this morning pre-coffee.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:22:29 GMT
Yes, and poor Bran getting pushed out the window and his leg cut. Damn, it's hard being a Stark lover. Edit: Which looks funny even to me coming from my Cersei avatar. Well, it's not so good with Lannisters either. One got his hand chopped off, one his nose, one got stripped naked in public, another one got crossbow'd when taking a shit, one got poisoned in his wedding and one even got killed by a horse! And Baratheons... one got killed by a pig, another one got slain by a shadow, one got burned to death because EPISODE 9 SHOCKING!!!11 and one was defeated and killed offscreen. True. And I find it really sad that the baby Lannisters are getting killed off through no fault of their own.
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Post by King Tommen on Aug 16, 2015 15:24:21 GMT
As far as survival/suffering of great families in Westeros, to this point you want to be on team Tyrell and it's not even close.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:26:33 GMT
Btw @witchy, you misunderstood. No one said that Olly's in 9 episodes this season. It was just Father of Dragons saying that the twat was in 9 episodes last season. Hopefully the bastard dies early. Oh, thank God! Or the gods, or whatever deity you want to thank. I must have read that last night post-partaking or this morning pre-coffee. Yeah that was just a misunderstanding. Olly isn't in 9 episodes this year, he's in ALL TEN!!1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:28:12 GMT
As far as survival/suffering of great families in Westeros, to this point you want to be on team Tyrell and it's not even close. Although that's likely about to change. My problem is I love everyone. So it hurts when everyone dies.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:29:15 GMT
Oh, thank God! Or the gods, or whatever deity you want to thank. I must have read that last night post-partaking or this morning pre-coffee. Yeah that was just a misunderstanding. Olly isn't in 9 episodes this year, he's in ALL TEN!!1 /beheads Olly my-damn-self
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 15:33:40 GMT
As far as survival/suffering of great families in Westeros, to this point you want to be on team Tyrell and it's not even close. Although that's likely about to change. My problem is I love everyone. So it hurts when everyone dies. You might as well just learn to embrace the villains. Don't you see how happy folks like Roose is Azor Ahai and Nezzer are?
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