|
|
Post by King Tommen on Jun 21, 2015 17:26:44 GMT
I will take heavy bets that at least 90% of Dany's arc in S6 will be away from the shores of Westeros. It will be the easiest money I've ever made.
|
|
|
|
Post by dany4eva on Jun 21, 2015 17:27:48 GMT
If she arrives already in season 6. What is the whole of season 7 going to be about. I assume the battle of Dawn will be like 7.09. They can't be prepping for the battle from 7.01 to 7.09. I think this season will be dothraki and deciding what to do with Mereen. Wall politics and resurrection along with Mel getting more insight from fires, Riverlands, lots of kingslanding and cersi revenge, lots of Breinne and Sansa travels. Maybe there is a chance for her to arrive in 6.09 but I only say this because I cannot think of many options for the big episode. Maybe JS Resurrection, bran does something cool, red wedding 2.0, some major deaths. IDEK
|
|
|
|
Post by evenstar on Jun 21, 2015 17:29:43 GMT
Seven Hells, Sire! Who knew you feel this strongly about it?!  Are you familiar with "Words are wind"?  It's all in the actions one makes not about what they keep teasing/promising or we'd have TWoW in our hands right now, wouldn't we? Also: I wanna see your I-owe-you slip. Mine says: Dany stayed in Meereen to develop some queen qualities, build up some ruling savy. NOT burn the damn thing to the ground! I care.  Dany won't burn down Meereen, I just think that she should because everyone in Meereen kind of sucks and doesn't really want her there in the first place. She should give them all the finger on her way out of town. The finger! much better. I won't Dracarys you anymore then  I think Martin wanted her to fail there a couple of times before getting it right. So he gave her the hardest hostile environment he could. Then again Westeros will be similar to that, so it does work as a "training" experience. I really hope she doesn't fail Meereen though. And totally off topic: I'll miss Ser Barry. I don't think he'll survive the Meereen experiment in the books either. |
|
|
|
Post by dany4eva on Jun 21, 2015 17:32:38 GMT
Seven Hells, Sire! Who knew you feel this strongly about it?! Are you familiar with "Words are wind"? It's all in the actions one makes not about what they keep teasing/promising or we'd have TWoW in our hands right now, wouldn't we? Also: I wanna see your I-owe-you slip. Mine says: Dany stayed in Meereen to develop some queen qualities, build up some ruling savy. NOT burn the damn thing to the ground! I care. Dany won't burn down Meereen, I just think that she should because everyone in Meereen kind of sucks and doesn't really want her there in the first place. She should give them all the finger on her way out of town. Like this on the back of drogon flying away from Meereen  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 17:57:20 GMT
If she arrives already in season 6. What is the whole of season 7 going to be about. I assume the battle of Dawn will be like 7.09. They can't be prepping for the battle from 7.01 to 7.09. I think this season will be dothraki and deciding what to do with Mereen. Wall politics and resurrection along with Mel getting more insight from fires, Riverlands, lots of kingslanding and cersi revenge, lots of Breinne and Sansa travels. Maybe there is a chance for her to arrive in 6.09 but I only say this because I cannot think of many options for the big episode. Maybe JS Resurrection, bran does something cool, red wedding 2.0, some major deaths. IDEK I doubt Battle of Dawn will be just one ep. I'd assume we'll get WW ripping the North to pieces before them being pushed back/bargained with. Plus WHEN she arrives in Season 6 she still has to fight against Euron etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 18:01:17 GMT
I will take heavy bets that at least 90% of Dany's arc in S6 will be away from the shores of Westeros. It will be the easiest money I've ever made. Well you were equally confident that she would be going to Westeros at the end of season 5 and were wrong then too, so. |
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on Jun 21, 2015 18:13:14 GMT
I will take heavy bets that at least 90% of Dany's arc in S6 will be away from the shores of Westeros. It will be the easiest money I've ever made. Well you were equally confident that she would be going to Westeros at the end of season 5 and were wrong then too, so. So right. My assumption was based on a S6 Westeros arrival which would mean that you could easily set it up in the S5 finale. It was the perfect cliffhanger for that series of events. But that assumption that she was arriving in S6 was obviously wrong so you can see how they've set up the Meereen/wheel spinning stuff in the finale instead. Had I known they'd be delaying her departure for a season, then yeah, I'd have predicted leaving her with her ADwD final chapter. But obviously things have changed and they've gone to a lot of trouble to set the pieces up for a further stay. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 18:23:05 GMT
Well you were equally confident that she would be going to Westeros at the end of season 5 and were wrong then too, so. So right. My assumption was based on a S6 Westeros arrival which would mean that you could easily set it up in the S5 finale. It was the perfect cliffhanger for that series of events. But that assumption that she was arriving in S6 was obviously wrong so you can see how they've set up the Meereen/wheel spinning stuff in the finale instead. Had I known they'd be delaying her departure for a season, then yeah, I'd have predicted leaving her with her ADwD final chapter. But obviously things have changed and they've gone to a lot of trouble to set the pieces up for a further stay. But I don't see why it couldn't fit into season 6? We have no idea how long she'll be with the Dothraki and if she gets back to Meereen by episode 4 or 5 and decides to set sail then she could be in Westeros by episodes 9 or 10. |
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on Jun 21, 2015 18:33:41 GMT
So right. My assumption was based on a S6 Westeros arrival which would mean that you could easily set it up in the S5 finale. It was the perfect cliffhanger for that series of events. But that assumption that she was arriving in S6 was obviously wrong so you can see how they've set up the Meereen/wheel spinning stuff in the finale instead. Had I known they'd be delaying her departure for a season, then yeah, I'd have predicted leaving her with her ADwD final chapter. But obviously things have changed and they've gone to a lot of trouble to set the pieces up for a further stay. But I don't see why it couldn't fit into season 6? We have no idea how long she'll be with the Dothraki and if she gets back to Meereen by episode 4 or 5 and decides to set sail then she could be in Westeros by episodes 9 or 10. I've said that they could make her arrival on the shores of Westeros the final cliffhanger of the season so we're saying the same thing here (hence my "90% of the season off the shores of Westeros" statement). But that's the absolute earliest arrival, she isn't actually going to be doing anything of substance in Westeros until the final season. And I'm guessing this is because George is holding off on her doing anything in Westeros until ADoS. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 22:35:23 GMT
Well! A lot of great debate about when Daenerys is going to leave Meereen. Here's my hunch (and mind you it's just a hunch) ... Re-watch that final Meereen scene between Varys and Tyrion and try to read between the lines a bit: I don't actually think Varys is talking about Meereen at all here, but rather, King's Landing. This struck me immediately as they were talking. Varys always speaks in riddles and so far the only people who are able to keep up with his riddles are Littlefinger and Tyrion. While yes, Meereen does fit the description of a grand old city choking on violence, corruption and deceit ... it's just a launching pad for them to manage the real beast they know is the key. Meereen has never been the 'endgame' for Daenerys and anyone who thinks that must be super bored with her story because what's the point of this little girl birthing dragons from fire if she's just going to choke on Meereenese culture (which she hates a great deal and vocally in the books mind you) and stay there to rule for a long period of time? Broader strokes here my friends. The bigger picture is Daenerys and her dragons playing some part in the apocalypse of Westeros and saving the people from destruction by the Great Other to reunite and rule a new Westeros ... or at the very least frying a whole bunch of wights and White Walkers before dying herself in some meaningful way - whichever theory you prefer. Think about this also: The show writers have accelerated a LOT of the stories this past season. Almost to the point it felt rushed in many areas. They fast forwarded Tyrion to Dany's side by skipping a TON of his material in the books. He doesn't go on a journey down the river with Griff and Co. He doesn't meet Penny and play a dwarf in a comedy play, or slog through lengthy slave scenes and the Meereen siege by Yunkai. They forwarded his story to where Jorah captures him and a fast jaunt from Gladiator slaves to Dany. Amen. Done. I'm so glad. I find it highly unlikely they're now going to slow down again in Season 6. Why would they do this when they've projected (and maintained) they will only do 7 seasons? Dany has a LOT to do in a short period of time and none of it has much to do with Meereen and most everything to do with Westeros and King's Landing. So in summary, I will not entertain or agree with those posting they think she's going to spend all of season 6 in Meereen preparing to leave. My Gods have we not had quite enough torture and wheel spinning for most of the main characters by now? It's even too ridiculous for the show writers, it has to be. They are LEAVING Meereen and I suspect they will do it in the first half of Season 6. There will be 1 or 2 episodes of Tyrion "managing" things while the Harpy takes back control of the city. This is pretty inevitable with the "Queen" MIA ... don't you think? Dany was barely holding onto things and it ended in disaster/coup and massacre in the fighting pits. That battle is lost - just as Jon Snow fought and lost a battle against the White Walkers at Hardhome - so too has Dany fought and lost her Meereen battle. Because they are both fighting the wrong battle.I highly recommend reading some of the great parallels between Jon and Dany written by @moiaf both here in our group as well as over at ASOIF forums. It's good stuff and has really changed how I view both of our young 'heroes' in the story. Azor Ahai is not one person. While one can dance alone, it's true, this particular dance is meant for three.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 22:41:55 GMT
Also, I totally forgot in my long summary this important bit:
"Information is the key. You need to learn your enemy's strengths and strategies. You need to learn which of your friends are not your friends."
Varys is talking about the cities themselves. Meereen is not their friend. She never will be. That is painfully obvious now that they chose to play out a massive coup at Daznak's. There is nothing left there for them to repair/manage. Their true friends will be in Westeros.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 23:11:36 GMT
That's actually a very interesting take on that conversation that I hadn't considered. It makes a lot of sense that they would actually be talking about King's Landing. Varys and Tyrion set out to Meereen to bring Daenerys back to Westeros, they didn't go there to help her rule in Slaver's Bay. Why would Varys give a fuck if Meereen imploded on itself? Why would anyone with a conscienceTyrion?
As soon as she gets back to Meereen (which should hopefully be by episode 5 at the very latest, praise the gods) they will, or should, be all "lol let's gtfo, yeah?".
And another thing, while Dany is off with the Dothraki, what conflict will there be in Meereen to keep it interesting? Unless I'm mistaken, all of the named Meereenese characters have been killed off. Unless the SotH are still causing shit and Tyrion and Varys actually manage to put a face to the group (and really at this stage the only person it could possibly be is that prostitute). They're unlikely to introduce any other prominent figures because the audience doesn't really give a fuck about Meereenese politics.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 23:25:02 GMT
That's actually a very interesting take on that conversation that I hadn't considered. It makes a lot of sense that they would actually be talking about King's Landing. Varys and Tyrion set out to Meereen to bring Daenerys back to Westeros, they didn't go there to help her rule in Slaver's Bay. Why would Varys give a fuck if Meereen imploded on itself? Why would anyone with a conscienceTyrion? As soon as she gets back to Meereen (which should hopefully be by episode 5 at the very latest, praise the gods) they will, or should, be all "lol let's gtfo, yeah?". And another thing, while Dany is off with the Dothraki, what conflict will there be in Meereen to keep it interesting? Unless I'm mistaken, all of the named Meereenese characters have been killed off. Unless the SotH are still causing shit and Tyrion and Varys actually manage to put a face to the group (and really at this stage the only person it could possibly be is that prostitute). They're unlikely to introduce any other prominent figures because the audience doesn't really give a fuck about Meereenese politics. I think they will show some things going on in Meereen - just enough for Tyrion to say what you said so eloquently "lol let's gtfo, yeah?"  They've fast forwarded Tyrion because he plays a part in Dany's transition to Westeros not her wallowing in Meereen. That final scene between Varys and Tyrion ties it all together. Tyrion's not happy being left to manage shitty Meereen even though he's good at it and loves being in charge of a city ... he knows that's not where they should be and watching Jorah and Daario ride off to find Dany leaves him feeling uneasy because he doesn't want to be stuck in Meereen for a long time. That's why Varys showing up makes him happy again. Varys assures him they're going to keep the real quest front and center because he has birds in the east and the west and he knows where their friends and enemies are waiting across the narrow sea. Tyrion's only purpose in Meereen at the start of Season 6 will be as a placeholder while they act out whatever Dany's going to do with the Dothraki ... which I pray is blissfully short. I predict 1-3 episodes worth of scenes at most. There's absolutely no reason to drag any of that out for an entire season. They did their massive cliffhangers in season 5 finale and Season 6 is going to move all of that forward a great deal and very quickly. There seems to be some sort of hang up because TWOW isn't released for us to fall back on with book knowledge. Divest yourself of that and I think it's easy to see from an HBO/show watcher's standpoint the politics and "intrigue" (  ) of Meereen is pointless. It's time to go. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 23:34:45 GMT
Agreed, so much Meereen in the books is a dull read, although I think as a whole it is rather interesting with Dany's inner conflict and how that is symbolised/expressed with Drogon and his timely disappearance/reappearance, but chapter-by-chapter? Hell to the no. Meereen in the show is slightly better, but it's only real purpose was to get Dany in the pit and then away with Drogon which I think is clear by the way it kind of stalled after about episode 4 or 5 and was just a case of waiting until that time was right. I have digressed. Anyway, without TWOW, D&D have more control over how they want Dany and Tyrion to get from A to B. They also know what parts of the plot work and what don't (for all the shit we give them, I am sure they are painfully aware of how disastrous Dorne has been) and they do what they can with that. The book and TV audience alike are growing impatient with Dany's escapades in Essos. It is time for her to go west and D&D know this. They will make it happen as quickly as it possibly can happen, and with the Lannisters falling apart in KL, now is the perfect time. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 23:53:34 GMT
Someone else pointed out how disastrous Dorne was without D&D mucking it up and I somewhat agree. Had they gone the Darkstar/Arianne route - it could have been more interesting but a lot more complicated. Also, sending Quentyn was one of the dumbest moves of all time for Dorne - but I'll forgive that because no one in Westeros truly understands just how dangerous Dany with Dragons really is yet. This is something that can't be believed until seen first hand really. Tyrion was one of the biggest skeptics about "Snarks and Grumpkins" as we get titled here (haha!) ... but even he has been left mouth agape in wonder as Drogon descended into the pit and literally fried hundreds of people and then took off with Dany on his back. Those are the things of myths and legends coming true. I imagine it would be like someone in our real world discovering a way to bring dinosaurs or dragons back to life via DNA cloning! But yeah - the Dorne stuff was a disaster but it was a small percentage of the show's overall success/failure rate in my opinion. I was certain putting Sansa in Winterfell with Ramsay was going to be an utter disaster but they managed to pull it off. Stannis ending was questionable but the rest of the season was pretty damn good. Since we're on the topic of Dorne - what do you think their role will be with Dany? Since they've eliminated Quentyn, it's hard to figure out how they can tie in with her. I was at one point guessing Varys might show up in Dorne to confirm a connection with Doran and a 'big plan' to help Dany. fAegon is also out ... so that leaves Dorne hanging in limbo. Surely they have more to do with the endgame than we've seen on the show? The Sandsnakes going to their various places was important in the book - but will it be on the show? How much of that was really necessary? We have to think like show editors and decide what's important and what's not for Season 6. Dany staying in Meereen all season is definitely not. |
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on Jun 21, 2015 23:54:57 GMT
Repectfully, I couldn't disagree with this reading of the conversation more if I tried.
Clearly the ultimate goal for Dany, Tyrion and Varys is KL, that's not up for debate. But the task given Tyrion is to rule Meereen in Dany's absence and that's what Varys is there to help him with.
Furthermore, we have the audition scene where Tyrion and Varys are asking for the Red Priestess' help in governing the people of Meereen, not some kind of prep for a Westeros trip. Obviously Tyrion trying to keep things together in Meereen while Dany's gone will be a major plotline for him in S6. Once she returns, the pivot to Westeros will occur, probably in short order but it doesn't appear like that's happening anytime soon.
Your other big hint is that Daario and Jorah are heading out on a big expedition to find her which will probably lead them on their own adventures. If the plan was to have Dany come back to Meereen immediately after meeting the Dothraki, they wouldn't have bothered with a hunting party or making it clear that Tyrion would need to put his ruling skills into action.
They will build towards Dany's reappearance in Meereen later in the season alongside the decision to go to Westeros. As it would take a number of episodes to make the trip, I imagine they'll have the actual trip occur between seasons. Maybe she actually shows up at season's end but I lean towards the declaration to leave being her big climax.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 23:59:01 GMT
I dunno, but I bet D&D will make a right wank-fest out of it... Those guys really love Dany.
I think she'll return in S7 after setting out at the end of s6.
S6 in Westeros will revolve mainly around the Reach (likely with the ironborn), Cersei and Jaime in KL, probs with Jaime killing Cersei (super foreshadowed in S5), and the north, with Brienne being hopefully cast into a void from which she can never return.
As for her Westeros return we wont get it next series. Her return seems like (especially after what happened in the house of the undying) an endgame plot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 0:01:08 GMT
It's also possible that the Red Priestess advises that she take Volantis. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Volantis battle in the midseason.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 0:02:02 GMT
King Tommen - It's fine that you disagree and I enjoy hearing your reasons which usually have merit (so long as you're not insulting LSH that is). But that's not the topic here, thankfully.  I hear you saying you think the whole point of Varys showing up is to rule Meereen and I agree, but only partly and only for a short time. Dragging it out the entire season makes no sense. So while we can agree there's plot to be had in Meereen in Season 6, we'll have to disagree on how long. The Red Priestess they are casting just furthers the tie-in with Westeros really ... even moreso than anything in Meereen at all. As Fire and Blood pointed out - the Meereenese are not Red God followers nor is it a prevalent religion there. I highly doubt she has any part in keeping them there. If anything, it will urge them to leave even moreso. I predict Tyrion is going to learn very quickly that 'ruling Meereen' is impossible especially after that massive ending in Daznak's. Not all of the sons of the Harpy were killed nor was their leader(s) who most likely will take advantage of the fact Dany is now MIA. I wouldn't be surprised at all if things get very ugly before Dany returns upon which moment everyone's going to be standing on the docks with their little hand-bags saying "Ok girl, we packed you some clean undies and hair bands for your braids, let's get outta here!"
|
|
|
|
Post by evenstar on Jun 22, 2015 0:08:22 GMT
I was just about to point the Daario / Jorah angle myself. I wouldn't particularly call it a big expedition but it certainly looks like they will have a bit of a storyline there that will culminate most likely in finding Dany. I would put that climax somewhere mid season 6. The most curious thing is what exactly will Dany and the Dothraki be doing?! Negotiation for an army of Dothraki screamers?
I also thought that the discussion between Varys and Tyrion about ruling Meereen as well as Daario's "that one (the Imp) is the only one who knows how to manage a city amongst us" was pretty clear what is expected from the Lannister for the duration of Dany's absence. And this is another unknown: what exactly will they provide for Tyrion & Varys, Missandei & Grey Worm. I doubt they'll be doing finances and rebuilding the city. That is not quite exciting television. Not in GoT terms.
As for when Dany is returning to Westeros, I think it will be by the end of the 6th season.
|
|
It's all in the actions one makes not about what they keep teasing/promising or we'd have TWoW in our hands right now, wouldn't we? 
) of Meereen is pointless. It's time to go.