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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 23:01:34 GMT
I think the issue with a trip to Castle Cerwyn is how close it is to Winterfell. Heading there from Stannis' camp would have taken Sansa straight past the place she should be actively avoiding, unless she went out of her way to go far around it. The problem then becomes that Jon could have been right and she could get caught in a terrible storm. I agree that it would obviously be nice to have more men  but I do like the in-fighting between Sansa and Jon. Neither really know how this whole thing should proceed and I loved how their argument was coupled with the soldiers and Davos fighting behind them. I just wish Jon had gathered enough men to make his attack make sense. The attacker is always supposed to have more men than the defender, so Jon should've gathered some 7,000 men before making his decision to march to battle. D&D could've easily achieved that if they played a bit with the numbers, giving him 1,000 Mormonts like Stannis gets in the books, 700 Hornwoods, 300 Mazins and 3,000 Manderlys. No need to make things so desperate. I agree on this. It's a little too exaggerated. I wish they had made it a little closer at least to numbers that make sense. As is it looks suicidal and that sort of dampens some of the spirit no matter how awesome the trailer for the episode looks. I know this is entirely intentional but they rushed it and could have had Cerwyn, Manderly, etc. That wouldn't have taken entire scene sets to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 23:22:50 GMT
I agree with you on the stabbing part being super unnecessary and stupid. But a few thoughts on the bolded paragraph. The Waif was not No One yet. She was an acolyte and thus still in training. She was clearly way too emotional and seemed to be jealous of Arya on multiple occasions. She probably was afraid of Arya being better than her. That's why the Waif is able to hold grudges. She is not No One. I don't think she was a terrible assassin as much as she was arrogantly enjoying the shit out of chasing Arya. In fact, she was so arrogant that she didn't even foresee that Arya could be leading her into a trap. Arya had the advantage in the dark, because the Waif had never learnt to fight blind. Also, one could argue that Jaqen tested both Arya and the Waif. He is not stupid. He knows about the Waif's personality, that's why he told her to not let Arya suffer. But the Waif didn't listen to that, because of her arrogance. And that's important for Jaqen to know, because arrogance is not a trait a FM should have. You have to keep in mind that the Waif was also still in traning as I mentioned. Jaqen said Arya is No One, because that's what he falsely believed. He believes that only someone who is truly No One and not emotional and arrogant could have done that, could have been able to kill the Waif. But he was wrong. That's why he looks surprised for a second when Arya says that she is Arya Stark of Winterfell. He didn't expect her to say that. He didn't expect that Arya Stark would be able to kill the Waif, but she did, so she must be No One. Well, you are wrong, Jaqen. I don't think we were ever told that the Waif was an acolyte, though. Given that she was training Arya, she should be at least the equivalent of some mid-level manager in the FM company. It was also never implied that she was ever being tested by Jaqen, those were just fan theories. If they had established the FM institution better and developed Jaqen and the Waif as characters, maybe it would've made sense to me as it made to you, but as it is there are too many blanks to fill to make sense of it. I think looking at the Waif's emotional outbursts, arrogance and jealousy plus the dynamics she has with Jaqen (Jaqen is clearly in charge) makes it clear enough that the Waif struggled to be No One herself and that she is not done with her training. She is way too personal to be No One. I always thought that's pretty obvious, but maybe it's just me. Maybe saying Jaqen "tested" the Waif is the wrong word, but it was heavily implied that he knew about the Waif's personality ("don't let her suffer") and was at the very least curious to see if the Waif would respect that command. She obviously failed, because she wanted to make Arya suffer. Which again proved to Jaqen that the Waif was not No One whether he intended it to be a test or not. She failed regardless of that. I hated how unrealistic it was that Arya was able to do what she did despite her injury, but apart from that I think her entire Braavos arc is pretty well done. It's subtle but it made sense to me. This is all IMHO of course.  |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on Jun 14, 2016 0:29:46 GMT
For me, the heart of the Arya story this season was the acting troupe, not the Faceless Men, so it might be the reason why her bits in this episode didn't bother me much. The Faceless Men and their philosophy was more or less fully established last year - a dehumanizing void where death is as meaningless as life. It was a tempting prospect, because nothingness brings comfort with it, but it wasn't really for Arya Stark. All this was pretty much settled back in season 5 imo. Season 6 was about Arya valuing life once and for all, regaining her curiosity, and finding herself through the mirror of theatre. She saw and felt the suffering of others (again, through theatre). She realized that her personal pain could mirror everyone else's. This was her journey this year and it ended with that chat with Lady Crane - "What's west of Westeros?", Arya opening up to the world in a way she never had before. So the chase, the miraculous frantic jumping, the goodbye with Jaqen.... it was all so inevitable I didn't care that much that we didn't see Arya cutting the Waif in little pieces, though my primal urges would have loved that. The Waif did deserve a good beating. I'm legitimately worried about how the Arya in the Twins bits could affect her arc this season though. Mad vengeance, Stoneheart-style wouldn't make sense anymore. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 17:19:58 GMT
We have enough votes for an average rating, but I'll do an updated one on Friday when we close the poll.
6x08 average rating: 7.77 | 35 members voted.
Previous episodes:
6x01 average rating: 7.56 | 41 members voted.
6x02 average rating: 9.05 | 38 members voted.
6x03 average rating: 8.11 | 38 members voted.
6x04 average rating: 9.10 | 41 members voted.
6x05 average rating: 9.56 | 41 members voted.
6x06 average rating: 8.16 | 36 members voted.
6x07 average rating: 8.40 | 43 members voted.
6x05 > 6x04 > 6x02 > 6x07 > 6x06 > 6x03 > 6x08 > 6x01
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2016 17:46:23 GMT
For me, the heart of the Arya story this season was the acting troupe, not the Faceless Men, so it might be the reason why her bits in this episode didn't bother me much. The Faceless Men and their philosophy was more or less fully established last year - a dehumanizing void where death is as meaningless as life. It was a tempting prospect, because nothingness brings comfort with it, but it wasn't really for Arya Stark. All this was pretty much settled back in season 5 imo. Season 6 was about Arya valuing life once and for all, regaining her curiosity, and finding herself through the mirror of theatre. She saw and felt the suffering of others (again, through theatre). She realized that her personal pain could mirror everyone else's. This was her journey this year and it ended with that chat with Lady Crane - "What's west of Westeros?", Arya opening up to the world in a way she never had before. So the chase, the miraculous frantic jumping, the goodbye with Jaqen.... it was all so inevitable I didn't care that much that we didn't see Arya cutting the Waif in little pieces, though my primal urges would have loved that. The Waif did deserve a good beating. I'm legitimately worried about how the Arya in the Twins bits could affect her arc this season though. Mad vengeance, Stoneheart-style wouldn't make sense anymore. Even giving how this whole season is really poorly planned in terms of set-up
a) we are supposed to cheer Ramsay loses even though theshow showed us what a shit he is constantly...instead of in the episodes preceding his demise
b) wilfire set up 1. quick shots in the vision 2. a line from Qyburn some people in the audience didn't understand
c) revealing ToJ 7 eps after the fight while in the meantime Jon lost what was left of his balls and it's like who cares
the culmination of Arya's plot should be getting home. That's it. There was one mention of her list and Walder in a scene of which focus went to her taking Hound of the list and possibly putting Waif on it. The set up for Arya's vengeance is not there at all |
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 14, 2016 18:03:18 GMT
I just wish Jon had gathered enough men to make his attack make sense. The attacker is always supposed to have more men than the defender, so Jon should've gathered some 7,000 men before making his decision to march to battle. D&D could've easily achieved that if they played a bit with the numbers, giving him 1,000 Mormonts like Stannis gets in the books, 700 Hornwoods, 300 Mazins and 3,000 Manderlys. No need to make things so desperate. I agree on this. It's a little too exaggerated. I wish they had made it a little closer at least to numbers that make sense. As is it looks suicidal and that sort of dampens some of the spirit no matter how awesome the trailer for the episode looks. I know this is entirely intentional but they rushed it and could have had Cerwyn, Manderly, etc. That wouldn't have taken entire scene sets to do. I'd like to see how they numbers play out before judging how desperate things are. Stannis also didn't have Wun Wun and Ghost.  |
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2016 18:04:12 GMT
I agree on this. It's a little too exaggerated. I wish they had made it a little closer at least to numbers that make sense. As is it looks suicidal and that sort of dampens some of the spirit no matter how awesome the trailer for the episode looks. I know this is entirely intentional but they rushed it and could have had Cerwyn, Manderly, etc. That wouldn't have taken entire scene sets to do. Stannis also didn't have Wun Wun and Ghost. Or writers' favor... |
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Steve Stark
Grumpkin 
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
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Post by Steve Stark on Jun 16, 2016 20:04:48 GMT
I finally rated this episode. Sorry I'm late.
Loved the Hound. Edmure's acting was great. Blackfish tugged at my heart-strings. I loved the whole episode. It was perfectly constructed entertainment.
Gave it a 6. Because fuck D&D, that's why.
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but I do like the in-fighting between Sansa and Jon. Neither really know how this whole thing should proceed and I loved how their argument was coupled with the soldiers and Davos fighting behind them.
