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Post by Father of Dragons on May 31, 2016 18:19:20 GMT
The HS a morally good character? What?  He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO.  But yeah, all of that makes him a fantastic and super interesting character. And Pryce is doing a brilliant job.  True, he's vile, but with a face like this I can't help but want to hug him. He just looks so friendly   |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 18:20:55 GMT
The HS a morally good character? What? He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO. But yeah, all of that makes him a fantastic and super interesting character. And Pryce is doing a brilliant job. I read a really good argument few days ago which could now be used as a counter-argument to your post, but I don't know how to translate it to English. Anyway, he's not really morally good. He is still a good person, and probably the best thing that has happened to the smallfolk for a while. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 18:36:59 GMT
The HS a morally good character? What? He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO. But yeah, all of that makes him a fantastic and super interesting character. And Pryce is doing a brilliant job. I read a really good argument few days ago which could now be used as a counter-argument to your post, but I don't know how to translate it to English. Anyway, he's not really morally good. He is still a good person, and probably the best thing that has happened to the smallfolk for a while.I guess it depends on the normative ethical system you use to judge his actions. If you use a teleological moral system, then you could have a point, because this kind of system is characterized by a focus on the consequences an action might have. In regards to the High Sparrow one could say his actions are justified because a lot of people (i.e. the smallfolk) are better off because of it. In this case, his actions would be morally good, because he actually helped people. It's classic "the ends justify the means". A lot of people follow that system. I, however, completely disagree with it. However, if you use a deontological moral system, then you would come to a completely different result. A deontological moral system would judge an action's morality by its adherence to certain rules. E.g. "torture is not acceptable because it is an attack on human dignity, no matter how honourable and good the intentions and consequences are.". Looking at it this way, the High Sparrow's actions are morally questionable. Some of his actions may help people, but the means he makes use of are despicable and not acceptable. What makes it more complicated is that a person seldom does only good things or only bad things. But I agree with Stannis here. A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward. |
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May 31, 2016 18:46:26 GMT
Post by Admin on May 31, 2016 18:46:26 GMT
Will we see Brienne in this episode?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 18:50:26 GMT
Will we see Brienne in this episode? Yes. |
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May 31, 2016 18:50:34 GMT
via mobile
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 31, 2016 18:50:34 GMT
Will we see Brienne in this episode? Apparently yes |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 31, 2016 18:54:06 GMT
The HS a morally good character? What? He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO. But yeah, all of that makes him a fantastic and super interesting character. And Pryce is doing a brilliant job. The self-disgust when he talked about the party and the naked bodies and the smell in the room was palpable. And amazingly acted. He not only admits to being the biggest sinner in town, he sorta relishes in it. He's definitely a religious fundamentalist, although I'm not sure he fits the archetype. I think there's good in him too, as evidenced by the fact he was probably helping the poor for years before he had any clue Cersei would give him access to power. He's like a mix of the more unpleasant bits of Christian doctrine (St. Augustine-like, everyone's a sinner) and the mendicant beggars of the middle ages. |
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May 31, 2016 18:54:08 GMT
Post by Admin on May 31, 2016 18:54:08 GMT
Good  |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 19:02:12 GMT
The HS a morally good character? What? He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO. But yeah, all of that makes him a fantastic and super interesting character. And Pryce is doing a brilliant job. The self-disgust when he talked about the party and the naked bodies and the smell in the room was palpable. And amazingly acted. He not only admits to being the biggest sinner in town, he sorta relishes in it. He's definitely a religious fundamentalist, although I'm not sure he fits the archetype. I think there's good in him too, as evidenced by the fact he was probably helping the poor for years before he had any clue Cersei would give him access to power. He's like a mix of the more unpleasant bits of Christian doctrine (St. Augustine-like, everyone's a sinner) and the mendicant beggars of the middle ages. You could be right, but there are real life critics who actually criticised people like Mother Teresa, saying she was not really a friend of the poor, but a friend of poverty. It's not really about helping people as much as it is about the glorification of suffering. I'm not entirely sure if I would agree with these critics and I'm not entirely sure if this can be applied to the HS either. But it's worth thinking about. However, I feel like this almost deserves a separate thread. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 31, 2016 19:09:34 GMT
The self-disgust when he talked about the party and the naked bodies and the smell in the room was palpable. And amazingly acted. He not only admits to being the biggest sinner in town, he sorta relishes in it. He's definitely a religious fundamentalist, although I'm not sure he fits the archetype. I think there's good in him too, as evidenced by the fact he was probably helping the poor for years before he had any clue Cersei would give him access to power. He's like a mix of the more unpleasant bits of Christian doctrine (St. Augustine-like, everyone's a sinner) and the mendicant beggars of the middle ages. You could be right, but there are real life critics who actually criticised people like Mother Teresa, saying she was not really a friend of the poor, but a friend of poverty. It's not really about helping people as much as it is about the glorification of suffering. I'm not entirely sure if I would agree with these critics and I'm not entirely sure if this can be applied to the HS either. But it's worth thinking about. However, I feel like this almost deserves a separate thread. That would lead us down the rabbit hole of whether truly selfless acts are even possible in the first place I tend to think they are not, but if the High Sparrow managed to make the lives of others a tad more bearable through empathy (and food!) I'd say that's as good as it gets in Westeros. |
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2016 19:11:03 GMT
I think we may need to have separate threads for each character   |
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Promo
May 31, 2016 19:19:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 19:19:33 GMT
I actually think it would be a great idea if we started to open threads to discuss individual characters, because seriously, we have already discussed Sansa and the HS here and it had not really anything to do with the Promo or Ep7.  |
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2016 19:21:38 GMT
You guys want me to create a section for Characters talk? It might be too close to General/Appreciation but from what I see it's mostly just pictures there
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May 31, 2016 19:25:58 GMT
Post by Father of Dragons on May 31, 2016 19:25:58 GMT
I actually think it would be a great idea if we started to open threads to discuss individual characters, because seriously, we have already discussed Sansa and the HS here and it had not really anything to do with the Promo or Ep7. Sansa talk in particular seems to pop up in every thread |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 19:27:29 GMT
We could always create those threads in the General section, but a separate subforum might make things a lot less messy and confusing. And GoT isn't exactly known for its small number of characters either and a lot of characters deserve their own thread. I am in favour.  |
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2016 19:32:47 GMT
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May 31, 2016 19:34:04 GMT
Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 31, 2016 19:34:04 GMT
You guys want me to create a section for Characters talk? It might be too close to General/Appreciation but from what I see it's mostly just pictures there That would be a good idea IMO. And maybe separate subforum a for Sansa and Dany But no, seriously I think a character discussion would be a good idea. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 20:19:14 GMT
This is a fantastic idea - thank you Admin! I have thought we needed a specific thread for each of the main 'storylines' of the series but individual character posts would work just as well too. There are so many different plots and everyone talking at once about different ones, it makes these threads get really long and jumbled and usually off topic from the original subject. |
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May 31, 2016 20:30:06 GMT
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 31, 2016 20:30:06 GMT
Is this to talk about future storylines and speculate, or is it just like a "Fuck yeah Arya Stark!" type of thing? Because me likey speculating about upcoming storylines. Should I confine that to the season 6 section? I wanna start a Mad Queen foreshadowing thread and a War For the Dawn thread and stuff like that. Where would stuff like that go? Thanks sorry, I still feel like a newbie who doesn't know where anything goes |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 20:31:50 GMT
Is this to talk about future storylines and speculate, or is it just like a "Fuck yeah Arya Stark!" type of thing? Because me likey speculating about upcoming storylines. I think it's more to contain the debates about characters that seem to derail speculation threads and keep spec threads on-topic. Character-specific spec. is probably welcome in them too, I imagine. |
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He shits on freedom in all its forms. He is the archetypical fundamentalist religious leader who accepts a book at face value and thinks he can impose his beliefs on everyone else, because only he is privy to the truth. He is a misanthrope because he loathes the human condition and all human desires, but in reality it's just self-loathing, because he, himself, is just human too after all. The only consequent thing for him to do would be to die and join his gods, but he is too afraid of that as well. Instead he chooses to manipulate everyone else into accepting his belief system by mentally breaking them with religious brainwashing. He never does the dirty work himself mind you. He has other people working for him, but he gladly accepts their brutality and humiliating methods. It's the classic good cop, bad cop routine. But he is behind all of it. The High Sparrow is actually one of the most vile characters on this show IMO. 
