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Post by day dreamer on May 30, 2016 4:08:03 GMT
I did like how quietly disappointed Jaqen looked when he learned Arya failed. When he told the Waif to "make sure she doesn't suffer" I felt like he felt 50% bad about it.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:16:40 GMT
It's also interesting how this photo of Arya was a scene that was meant to be in last season and her retrieving needle was in this episode.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:21:51 GMT
Connecting the dots, I really think that Mad King knew or saw some vision of the Night's King with his Targ blood. He became obsessed and paranoid because he understood so little about it and started burning People because he didn't understand about Wights. So when he screamed burn them all, it was a wierd Defense mechanism. He became afraid of people being around him, which is noted in the lore, and he only trusted his KG, even more than his son. Not to mention Rhaegar's wierd fixation with Stannis Jon Azor Ahai. Where did that one come from? He saw something, the Targaryens are notorious for visions and prophetic dreams. White Walkers are pretty important to miss in the scope of time and space and whatnot. Someone guessed elsewhere that the Mad King might have gone mad because he heard Bran. It occurs to me that a more likely scenario is that he heard Bloodraven. Maybe Bloodraven tried to warn him about things in visions. He could have accidentally screwed up Aerys the way Bran screwed up Hodor (but less severely, because of the warging.) Maybe Bloodraven saw a vision about the White Walkers coming and tried to warn Aerys about the need to prepare for them, and burn them, and those warnings drove him nuts and made him paranoid and obsessed with fire.I think you may have just hit the nail on the head @witchy.  The thing that clinches it for me is the rapid succession of images we see flying past in Bran's vision. Every second of the Mad King and wildfire is then followed by an immediate scene of the Night King and the army of the undead. This is clearly a message. This was, at it's base level, the exact definition of "Ice and Fire" ... and Bran is clearly the key to bringing that message to the rest of Westeros along with his other siblings. Someone has to link Daenerys and her dragons to this because she will obviously learn very soon that the biggest battle is not against "the men in their iron suits" at all. The irony of her speech to her Khalasar seems lost on a few people here, truly. Why do you think they followed Benjen's warning to Bran about the Night King with Daenerys riding Drogon? It's to show the audience the clear link between Targaryen and Stark in the battle to come against the White Walkers. The Wildfire will likely become a far bigger key component than burning down King's Landing. As much as we would like to see Cersei burn it down, I think it's going to be far more valuable against the millions of undead on their way southward. The question is... who in King's Landing will support the cause that will be brought to them by the north? As we heard from lovely Dickon Tarly, most of the south still believes the White Walkers are just a myth. |
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Post by day dreamer on May 30, 2016 4:36:34 GMT
Someone guessed elsewhere that the Mad King might have gone mad because he heard Bran. It occurs to me that a more likely scenario is that he heard Bloodraven. Maybe Bloodraven tried to warn him about things in visions. He could have accidentally screwed up Aerys the way Bran screwed up Hodor (but less severely, because of the warging.) Maybe Bloodraven saw a vision about the White Walkers coming and tried to warn Aerys about the need to prepare for them, and burn them, and those warnings drove him nuts and made him paranoid and obsessed with fire.I think you may have just hit the nail on the head @witchy . The thing that clinches it for me is the rapid succession of images we see flying past in Bran's vision. Every second of the Mad King and wildfire is then followed by an immediate scene of the Night King and the army of the undead. This is clearly a message. This was, at it's base level, the exact definition of "Ice and Fire" ... and Bran is clearly the key to bringing that message to the rest of Westeros along with his other siblings. Someone has to link Daenerys and her dragons to this because she will obviously learn very soon that the biggest battle is not against "the men in their iron suits" at all. The irony of her speech to her Khalasar seems lost on a few people here, truly. Why do you think they followed Benjen's warning to Bran about the Night King with Daenerys riding Drogon? It's to show the audience the clear link between Targaryen and Stark in the battle to come against the White Walkers. The Wildfire will likely become a far bigger key component than burning down King's Landing. As much as we would like to see Cersei burn it down, I think it's going to be far more valuable against the millions of undead on their way southward. The question is... who in King's Landing will support the cause that will be brought to them by the north? As we heard from lovely Dickon Tarly, most of the south still believes the White Walkers are just a myth. Maybe Sam makes his way there? No one in the South knows better than him right now. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:41:19 GMT
I think you may have just hit the nail on the head @witchy . The thing that clinches it for me is the rapid succession of images we see flying past in Bran's vision. Every second of the Mad King and wildfire is then followed by an immediate scene of the Night King and the army of the undead. This is clearly a message. This was, at it's base level, the exact definition of "Ice and Fire" ... and Bran is clearly the key to bringing that message to the rest of Westeros along with his other siblings. Someone has to link Daenerys and her dragons to this because she will obviously learn very soon that the biggest battle is not against "the men in their iron suits" at all. The irony of her speech to her Khalasar seems lost on a few people here, truly. Why do you think they followed Benjen's warning to Bran about the Night King with Daenerys riding Drogon? It's to show the audience the clear link between Targaryen and Stark in the battle to come against the White Walkers. The Wildfire will likely become a far bigger key component than burning down King's Landing. As much as we would like to see Cersei burn it down, I think it's going to be far more valuable against the millions of undead on their way southward. The question is... who in King's Landing will support the cause that will be brought to them by the north? As we heard from lovely Dickon Tarly, most of the south still believes the White Walkers are just a myth. Maybe Sam makes his way there? No one in the South knows better than him right now. It's a good guess and he's a good speech giver when he puts his mind to it. (Jon's LC election) I'm curious where he and Gilly will go from Horn Hill. Oldtown is the opposite direction from King's Landing though, and KL is also a lot further away so my guess is they still head onward to Oldtown. If he can convince the head Maesters at the Citadel, perhaps they'll send him to King's Landing with the warning that "Winter is Coming." |
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Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 4:45:59 GMT
I like the fact that they merged Coldhands characteristics into Benjen because it's the only good excuse why the hell he's been riding around North of the Wall since S1. Also, that probably gets the Coldhands origin story out in the open (outside of who he was, which is probably unimportant). I know George never meant for him to be Benjen (and screwed himself when Bran never recognized him in ADwD) but he should just say fuck it and make him Benjen anyways since it's the most logical answer.
And it seems this whole Horn Hill detour for Sam is primarily to serve the plot function of giving him his family Valyrian steel sword.
I really liked Dany's scene but I wished they would have made it seem like 100K Dothraki were cheering everytime she asked for a response instead of like the 8 guys it sounded like.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 30, 2016 4:51:27 GMT
I like the fact that they merged Coldhands characteristics into Benjen because it's the only good excuse why the hell he's been riding around North of the Wall since S1. Also, that probably gets the Coldhands origin story out in the open (outside of who he was, which is probably unimportant). I know George never meant for him to be Benjen (and screwed himself when Bran never recognized him in ADwD) but he should just say fuck it and make him Benjen anyways since it's the most logical answer. And it seems this whole Horn Hill detour for Sam is primarily to serve the plot function of giving him his family Valyrian steel sword. I really liked Dany's scene but I wished they would have made it seem like 100K Dothraki were cheering everytime she asked for a response instead of like the 8 guys it sounded like. It really make me ponder that in the book, if Benjen isn't Coldhands, then where could he have gone? |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:51:39 GMT
Someone guessed elsewhere that the Mad King might have gone mad because he heard Bran. It occurs to me that a more likely scenario is that he heard Bloodraven. Maybe Bloodraven tried to warn him about things in visions. He could have accidentally screwed up Aerys the way Bran screwed up Hodor (but less severely, because of the warging.) Maybe Bloodraven saw a vision about the White Walkers coming and tried to warn Aerys about the need to prepare for them, and burn them, and those warnings drove him nuts and made him paranoid and obsessed with fire.I think you may have just hit the nail on the head @witchy . The thing that clinches it for me is the rapid succession of images we see flying past in Bran's vision. Every second of the Mad King and wildfire is then followed by an immediate scene of the Night King and the army of the undead. This is clearly a message. This was, at it's base level, the exact definition of "Ice and Fire" ... and Bran is clearly the key to bringing that message to the rest of Westeros along with his other siblings. Someone has to link Daenerys and her dragons to this because she will obviously learn very soon that the biggest battle is not against "the men in their iron suits" at all. The irony of her speech to her Khalasar seems lost on a few people here, truly. Why do you think they followed Benjen's warning to Bran about the Night King with Daenerys riding Drogon? It's to show the audience the clear link between Targaryen and Stark in the battle to come against the White Walkers. The Wildfire will likely become a far bigger key component than burning down King's Landing. As much as we would like to see Cersei burn it down, I think it's going to be far more valuable against the millions of undead on their way southward. The question is... who in King's Landing will support the cause that will be brought to them by the north? As we heard from lovely Dickon Tarly, most of the south still believes the White Walkers are just a myth. So appropriately named. I'll pay attention to the organizational structure of the episode when I watch it again. I didn't notice the juxtapositions between Dany and the White Walkers/Bran. Well, I didn't notice consciously. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 4:52:57 GMT
I like the fact that they merged Coldhands characteristics into Benjen because it's the only good excuse why the hell he's been riding around North of the Wall since S1. Also, that probably gets the Coldhands origin story out in the open (outside of who he was, which is probably unimportant). I know George never meant for him to be Benjen (and screwed himself when Bran never recognized him in ADwD) but he should just say fuck it and make him Benjen anyways since it's the most logical answer. And it seems this whole Horn Hill detour for Sam is primarily to serve the plot function of giving him his family Valyrian steel sword.I really liked Dany's scene but I wished they would have made it seem like 100K Dothraki were cheering everytime she asked for a response instead of like the 8 guys it sounded like. Seems like a simple thing to develop an entire story plus elaborate set and costumes around but it does serve a good purpose of showing how vastly different most of the nobles in the south think and regard the north, the wall, the wildlings, the "myth" of the White Walkers. A lot was said in that awkward dinner and it was good exposition and setup for moving the conflict further south and how to solve the problem of getting the rest of the 7 Kingdoms involved in the bigger picture. I do agree they should have had a few hundred extras on hand for Dany's speech from Drogon's back. I'm guessing they only wanted to show warriors in the front (the rest of the massive nomadic horde would be slower) for the "Bloodriders" and "Blood of My Blood" bits but it felt a little small. Horses are expensive and tough in large numbers for filming so keeping it small was probably for practical reasons. |
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Post by Belle on May 30, 2016 4:58:09 GMT
in the middle of watching this episode right now.
wtf margaery?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:00:05 GMT
I also really liked the music they used for Dany's scene.
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Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 5:01:02 GMT
I like the fact that they merged Coldhands characteristics into Benjen because it's the only good excuse why the hell he's been riding around North of the Wall since S1. Also, that probably gets the Coldhands origin story out in the open (outside of who he was, which is probably unimportant). I know George never meant for him to be Benjen (and screwed himself when Bran never recognized him in ADwD) but he should just say fuck it and make him Benjen anyways since it's the most logical answer. And it seems this whole Horn Hill detour for Sam is primarily to serve the plot function of giving him his family Valyrian steel sword.I really liked Dany's scene but I wished they would have made it seem like 100K Dothraki were cheering everytime she asked for a response instead of like the 8 guys it sounded like. Seems like a simple thing to develop an entire story plus elaborate set and costumes around but it does serve a good purpose of showing how vastly different most of the nobles in the south think and regard the north, the wall, the wildlings, the "myth" of the White Walkers. A lot was said in that awkward dinner and it was good exposition and setup for moving the conflict further south and how to solve the problem of getting the rest of the 7 Kingdoms involved in the bigger picture. I do agree they should have had a few hundred extras on hand for Dany's speech from Drogon's back. I'm guessing they only wanted to show warriors in the front (the rest of the massive nomadic horde would be slower) for the "Bloodriders" and "Blood of My Blood" bits but it felt a little small. Horses are expensive and tough in large numbers for filming so keeping it small was probably for practical reasons. I agree that the Horn Hill scenes were interesting in developing Sam and giving some perspective on the South's opinion on the North as well as Gilly's reaction to it. But just in terms of pure plot function, I thought that this would set up either Sam finding a place to dump Gilly and the baby for the foreseeable future while he did his own thing in Oldtown or it would be introducing Randyll so that he could play a larger part of the story later on. Number 1 definitely isn't happening and now I seriously doubt we see Randyl again. Sam taking the sword seemed to be the main thing that needed to be accomplished there. And in terms of the Dany scene, I was totally fine with the number of Dothraki they showed in the scene, I was mainly referencing how many people it sounded like were cheering when Dany was making her speech. That's just a sound editing issue and has little to do with costs or logistics. It sounds like they have only the handful of guys who are on camera shouting back at her, could've used a little sweetening in the editing booth. |
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Post by Singer of Death on May 30, 2016 5:01:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:01:48 GMT
The purpose of the Horn Hill detour was to get Gilly looking presentable again. In fact, she looks beautiful. Girlfriend was oily and stank. Seriously, though, if it turns out to be a detour that doesn't advance the plot, it accomplished a lot as a detour. The spoiler people probably know which episode so and so Tarly will show up again anyway and are just kindly holding back the info.  If so, continue to shut, please!  |
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 30, 2016 5:04:04 GMT
Someone guessed elsewhere that the Mad King might have gone mad because he heard Bran. It occurs to me that a more likely scenario is that he heard Bloodraven. Maybe Bloodraven tried to warn him about things in visions. He could have accidentally screwed up Aerys the way Bran screwed up Hodor (but less severely, because of the warging.) Maybe Bloodraven saw a vision about the White Walkers coming and tried to warn Aerys about the need to prepare for them, and burn them, and those warnings drove him nuts and made him paranoid and obsessed with fire.I think you may have just hit the nail on the head @witchy . The thing that clinches it for me is the rapid succession of images we see flying past in Bran's vision. Every second of the Mad King and wildfire is then followed by an immediate scene of the Night King and the army of the undead. This is clearly a message. This was, at it's base level, the exact definition of "Ice and Fire" ... and Bran is clearly the key to bringing that message to the rest of Westeros along with his other siblings. Someone has to link Daenerys and her dragons to this because she will obviously learn very soon that the biggest battle is not against "the men in their iron suits" at all. The irony of her speech to her Khalasar seems lost on a few people here, truly. Why do you think they followed Benjen's warning to Bran about the Night King with Daenerys riding Drogon? It's to show the audience the clear link between Targaryen and Stark in the battle to come against the White Walkers. The Wildfire will likely become a far bigger key component than burning down King's Landing. As much as we would like to see Cersei burn it down, I think it's going to be far more valuable against the millions of undead on their way southward. The question is... who in King's Landing will support the cause that will be brought to them by the north? As we heard from lovely Dickon Tarly, most of the south still believes the White Walkers are just a myth. Agree it was message from Raven and now both Bran and audience have to figure out it's whole meaning. I rewatched this sequence as slowly as I could we've got: -White Walkers: nothing new, Hardhome, the Fist of the First Men, creating Night King, creating WW by Night King, WW killed by Jon; Valyrian steel&dragonglass hint-Wildfire: new one: Mad King&Jaime (past) and alchemists&wildfire spreading (wildfire certainly future vision, alchemists could be either from the past or the future); wildfire could be very usefull to "burn them all" hint
-Deanerys: nothing new: newborn dragons (past) and dragon over KL(future, but we've already seen it in S4); Deanerys&dragons hint-Starks: nothing new: a lot of dead Starks, Ned, Cat, Robb ech... that one bothers me - why we saw only dead members of family? ok but clearly Starks are needed for something hint
-ToJ: Ned and Ned&Lyanna scene(new one!): Jon hint-Bran: nothing new: his fall, ravens/crows, roots in this cursed hall/cave, edit:also Bran&Night King; Bran is the link hint.I wanted to write a summary , but I did not sleep through the night and I do not even remember my name anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:04:33 GMT
The purpose of the Horn Hill detour was to get Gilly looking presentable again. In fact, she looks beautiful. Girlfriend was oily and stank. Seriously, though, if it turns out to be a detour that doesn't advance the plot, it accomplished a lot as a detour. The spoiler people probably know which episode so and so Tarly will show up again anyway and are just kindly holding back the info. If so, continue to shut, please! Actually, we have no idea when the Tarlys will show up again so Sams's storyline from here is pretty much a complete mystery.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:06:14 GMT
So this shot of what's clearly Drogon flying over a city ... is that King's Landing? All the houses/rooftops are 'smoking' but I don't see any flames. Also, if Drogon or the other dragons were burning a city, we'd see obvious scorch damage from the outside right? This is a curious image indeed.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:09:06 GMT
So this shot of what's clearly Drogon flying over a city ... is that King's Landing? All the houses/rooftops are 'smoking' but I don't see any flames. Also, if Drogon or the other dragons were burning a city, we'd see obvious scorch damage from the outside right? This is a curious image indeed. You know that vision Dany had of herself walking into the throne room, and it had been badly burned? I've wondered if that was done by Dany herself (her dragons) or by wildfire. Now I'm thinking, that was Cersei's doing. Dany finaly arrives in KL, and the Lannisters have taken themselves out. She walks in and claims an empty throne. And then the Wall falls down, and the White Walkers flood Westeros. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:15:01 GMT
You know that vision Dany had of herself walking into the throne room, and it had been badly burned? I've wondered if that was done by Dany herself (her dragons) or by wildfire. Now I'm thinking, that was Cersei's doing. Dany finaly arrives in KL, and the Lannisters have taken themselves out. She walks in and claims an empty throne. And then the Wall falls down, and the White Walkers flood Westeros. Yep it's been speculated a lot that maybe that burned throne room was actually caused by wildfire if Cersei goes nuts and decides to tap the cache of wildfire Aerys left everywhere. One way or another, that wildfire is definitely going to be involved somewhere in the future because they sure emphasized it enough in Bran's visions. As I said in my other reply to you though, I'd much rather see that massive firepower used against the army of undead than just burning down King's Landing. That seems like a waste of badly needed ammo. TWD teaches us to conserve ammo!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 5:16:22 GMT
You know that vision Dany had of herself walking into the throne room, and it had been badly burned? I've wondered if that was done by Dany herself (her dragons) or by wildfire. Now I'm thinking, that was Cersei's doing. Dany finaly arrives in KL, and the Lannisters have taken themselves out. She walks in and claims an empty throne. And then the Wall falls down, and the White Walkers flood Westeros. Yep it's been speculated a lot that maybe that burned throne room was actually caused by wildfire if Cersei goes nuts and decides to tap the cache of wildfire Aerys left everywhere. One way or another, that wildfire is definitely going to be involved somewhere in the future because they sure emphasized it enough in Bran's visions. As I said in my other reply to you though, I'd much rather see that massive firepower used against the army of undead than just burning down King's Landing. That seems like a waste of badly needed ammo. TWD teaches us to conserve ammo!! Cersei has threatened to burn down cities several times so I don't think she'll conserve the ammo. She'll do it because she's gone mad. I agree with @witchy as well with Dany walking through a destroyed Throne Room with ash and snow falling from the ceiling after Cersei has burned the city with wildfire parallel to her vision in the HotU. |
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If so, continue to shut, please! 
