|
|
Post by boojam on May 30, 2016 17:43:34 GMT
Part 3 of the "The Game revealed" docuseries, this time covering Episodes 5 & 6. Emilia is killing it this season, I am thinking there is more Dothraki spoken than in season 1. She is really projecting , I like it, this was a great scene. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:47:50 GMT
That would be the absolute worst ending for her, to die in childbirth. First of all we've had far too many of those and secondly, she's to me a warrior of a sort and if she dies it should be in battle. Call me stupid, but I've never understood this point of view. How is death in childbirth "the worst"? How is bringing a child into the world more demeaning than dying of a flu, a heart attack, a poisoned wound, a stabbing in a meaningless brawl, choking on a bite of lamprey pie, and a thousand different ways to die? You may say that it is less glorious than a death in a battle or less pleasant than a death by old age, but that's it (and as for death in battle, it is only better if there's some noble purpose behind it, otherwise it's just violence). Also, it would mean her bloodline would continue. A child of her own would reap fruits of her successes, instead of masses that don't really give a fig about her beyond the vague notion she's cool and stuff. That counts for something, at least in my book. Other than that, I believe Jon is a goner. Exactly because he was brought back to life; it's like he's living on a borrowed time. To be a contrarian once more, I would hate it if one or the other sacrificed themselves intentionatelly. Dying fighting in okay for me, but an intentional noble sacrifice is a turn off. It reminds me of Armageddon and similar stupidities I have been forced to watch a million too many times. Especially if it's showy and ends up singlehandedly stopping the Big Bad. I'm so sick of that stuff I would seriously prefer they both died of being randomly hit by a rock into their head. Different tastes for different folks, I guess. It is actually in my estimation a fucking awful death, and I'll tell you why so then you can understand. First of all it's been done to many times in this series, the mothers of three of the major protagonist have died in childbirth and that's two too many deaths in my estimation. Secondly, to die in childbirth is to leave a child motherless, which is an awful way to be brought up, see exhibits Jon, Dany and Tyrion. The best the child could hope for would be a great father that could possibly, maybe, perhaps find a women who would be willing to bring up this child that is not her own in some relative normalcy with care and love but of course the child will always be reminded that they don't have a mother because their mother was Daenearys Stormborn, Queen of Westeros. Thirdly, death by virtue of being a women is demoralizing. Scientist have been working for a long time to prevent death in children because of all the aforementioned circumstances of leaving a child motherless. Now, I work in Ob/Gyn so maybe I'm a little less receptive to the whole, let me sacrifice myself to give birth, as the people I work with are actively trying to prevent that. So, take that with a grain of sand if you need to. Finally, someone like Dany who has been fighting from the beginning for freedoms, for equality at the table being as a women and to just die because medieval healthcare suck is anticlimactic. If she is going to die, she should die sacrificing herself for the greater good, and when I mean greater I don't mean her families continued lineage, Jon I suppose can become a father, but for the greater good of the world. Because that how I see that character, Dany isn't a small meassures sort of character, she's a go big or go home sort of characters and so should her death be. But as you say, different taste for different folks, right. |
|
Shaena
Sweet Summer Child
always off topic sorry so sorry
Posts: 54 
|
Post by Shaena on May 30, 2016 17:50:00 GMT
So, I was watching the inside the episode and apparently the Three-eyed Raven is a position not a person. So, now a part of this magical position is now part of Bran, I wonder then if in the future we will see Bran training the next 3ER. Also, with Bloodraven being a Valyrian and Bran being a Stark, does the position go from Fire to Ice? That would be cool but perhaps it's more likely tat because Bloodraven was also a Blackwood, it's all Ice. Also, D&D mentioned that the only children Dany will have are the dragons, is this confirmation that she'll never have any real children. That makes me sad because the quickening of her wound in ADWD gave me the impression that she might indeed have a living child in the end. I watched it now and I believe it says: "Daenerys talks of dragons being her children and that dragons are the only children she'll have." Which is not conclusive, imo, it just says repeats what Dany believes. Or maybe I'm just deaf or my English's not good enough! Both is possible. |
|
|
|
Post by TheMadQueen on May 30, 2016 17:57:16 GMT
I think Daenerys is charismatic as hell, but is capable of extreme cruelty when need be. We've seen her crucify random people, torture/feed them to her dragons, and publicly behead her own allies. She has an undeniable mean streak, but I don't think that will affect her. She's very nice to her friends, and very mean to her enemies.
If anything, it'll just command fear and respect from the smallfolk, which is exactly what she wants. Once they're afraid of her, then she'll show them why they should love her.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 18:18:49 GMT
They should be saying "I wish George did that because it's actually the story development that makes the most sense." Meh we have no idea what George is planning with Benjen so I don't see how you can judge shit you haven't even read. George can do whatever he wants (he always does) and if he ever does manage to tie up the 8 million plot lines he's created for himself, I'm sure he can come up with a somewhat plausible reason Benjen has been MIA in a cold wasteland since the first couple chapters of his series 20 years ago 6 or 7 books later. But the reason why most fans thought for the longest time that Coldhands was Benjen was because it made perfect sense that it would be. George can go ahead and be cute about it but I have a hard time believing he's going to give readers an answer for what's up with Coldhands and what's up with Benjen that is a whole lot better than "they are the same". |
|
|
|
Post by MarcusAntonius on May 30, 2016 18:36:01 GMT
How is Geoge being "cute" about it? And there doesn't have to be all that much up with Coldhands. He is a lifeless vessel controlled by Bloodraven to make sure Bran gets to the cave unharmed, Could just be that simple. Feels like the show just did another Jorah/JonCon and merged separate characters.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 18:49:01 GMT
The show gave a legitimate reason for a character to be MIA alone in a frozen wasteland that holds no shelter for a human on their own for that long.
Benjen couldn't come back to the Wall because he's been wightified and he would definitely want to help Bran on his quest because they're both Starks.
Coldhands is certainly more mysterious if he's not Benjen but that doesn't really make him interesting since he's almost assuredly just going to serve the plot function of escorting Bran where he needs to go Beyond the Wall and then disappear or die
And Benjen has been gone forever and if George were actually playing by the rules he set up (bringing more realism into fantasy), he should be dead. Him becoming Coldhands is narratively the most logical answer because it links up family memebers who want to help each other and it gives him a legit reason for not being able to return to the story over all this time.
The show definitely did a merge but it's a merge that makes total sense and it makes most sane people question why George isn't doing the same thing.
|
|
Shaena
Sweet Summer Child
always off topic sorry so sorry
Posts: 54
|
Post by Shaena on May 30, 2016 18:51:20 GMT
Call me stupid, but I've never understood this point of view. How is death in childbirth "the worst"? How is bringing a child into the world more demeaning than dying of a flu, a heart attack, a poisoned wound, a stabbing in a meaningless brawl, choking on a bite of lamprey pie, and a thousand different ways to die? You may say that it is less glorious than a death in a battle or less pleasant than a death by old age, but that's it (and as for death in battle, it is only better if there's some noble purpose behind it, otherwise it's just violence). Also, it would mean her bloodline would continue. A child of her own would reap fruits of her successes, instead of masses that don't really give a fig about her beyond the vague notion she's cool and stuff. That counts for something, at least in my book. Other than that, I believe Jon is a goner. Exactly because he was brought back to life; it's like he's living on a borrowed time. To be a contrarian once more, I would hate it if one or the other sacrificed themselves intentionatelly. Dying fighting in okay for me, but an intentional noble sacrifice is a turn off. It reminds me of Armageddon and similar stupidities I have been forced to watch a million too many times. Especially if it's showy and ends up singlehandedly stopping the Big Bad. I'm so sick of that stuff I would seriously prefer they both died of being randomly hit by a rock into their head. Different tastes for different folks, I guess. It is actually in my estimation I fucking awful death, and I'll tell you why so then you can understand. First of all it's been done to many times in this series, the mothers of three of the major protagonist have died in childbirth and that's two too many deaths in my estimation. Secondly, to die in childbirth is to leave a child motherless, which is an awful way to be brought up, see exhibits Jon, Dany and Tyrion. The best the child could hope for would be a great father that could possibly, maybe, perhaps find a women who would be willing to bring up this child that is not her own in some relative normalcy with care and love but of course the child will always be reminded that they don't have a mother because their mother was Daenearys Stormborn, Queen of Westeros. Thirdly, death by virtue of being a women is demoralizing. Scientist have been working for a long time to prevent death in children because of all the aforementioned circumstances of leaving a child motherless. Now, I work in Ob/Gyn so maybe I'm a little less receptive to the whole, let me sacrifice myself to give birth, as the people I work with are actively trying to prevent that. So, take that with a grain of sand if you need to. Finally, someone like Dany who has been fighting from the beginning for freedoms, for equality at the table being as a women and to just die because medieval healthcare suck is anticlimactic. If she is going to die, she should die sacrificing herself for the greater good, and when I mean greater I don't mean her families continued lineage, Jon I suppose can become a father, but for the greater good of the world. Because that how I see that character, Dany isn't a small meassures sort of character, she's a go big or go home sort of characters and so should her death be. But as you say, different taste for different folks, right. I agree with you about leaving beind a motherless child to an extent, but I confess I personally would love for Dany to have a child because House Targaryen is my favorite as such, and I would like to see them continue in some fashion. I'm not sure if Jon can do it either (having been magically resurrected and all), not to mention in such a case the mother of his children would most likely be Arya (unfortunately), and those kids would be much more Starks than Targaryens. I love the Starks, but they're Ice to the Targs' Fire for a reason. It wouldn't be the same. Elsewise, I'm not sure if Martin overuses death in childbirth seeing as it had been one of the most common causes of women's death during medieval times. Would it really be more progressive if Rhaella's bedgown caught on fire, Lyanna committed suicide, and Joanna died of a summer chill? Imho, once Martin decided not to include the mothers, it doesn't matter all that much what cause of death he chose for them. They are dead and not important for their children's story. If I complained to Martin, it would be about excluding the mothers in the first place, not making their cause of death childbirth. I understand that some may reservations about a major female character dying this way, but I would be troubled by it only if she died so path would be cleared for a male character to take her place in the plot. Otherwise it just shows that for all her strength and willpower and magic she's still only a human being made of flesh and bones. I certainly don't see death in childbirth demeaning only because it's exclusive to women. Two of my great-grandmothers died in childbirth, although they had been reportedly both very strong and capable women. Unfortunately, humankind aren't a race of the oviparous. Nevertheless I see I hit a nerve, so I'll drop it now. |
|
|
|
Post by boojam on May 30, 2016 19:02:37 GMT
The show gave a legitimate reason for a character to be MIA alone in a frozen wasteland that holds no shelter for a human on their own for that long. Benjen couldn't come back to the Wall because he's been wightified and he would definitely want to help Bran on his quest because they're both Starks. Coldhands is certainly more mysterious if he's not Benjen but that doesn't really make him interesting since he's almost assuredly just going to serve the plot function of escorting Bran where he needs to go Beyond the Wall and then disappear or die And Benjen has been gone forever and if George were actually playing by the rules he set up (bringing more realism into fantasy), he should be dead. Him becoming Coldhands is narratively the most logical answer because it links up family memebers who want to help each other and it gives him a legit reason for not being able to return to the story over all this time. The show definitely did a merge but it's a merge that makes total sense and it makes most sane people question why George isn't doing the same thing. It is possible that Benjen is Coldhands in the books but George's concept that since Benjen is now the kinda-sorta-not-quite-corpsesicle kind of deal he is no longer Benjen, as a technicality. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:05:49 GMT
The show gave a legitimate reason for a character to be MIA alone in a frozen wasteland that holds no shelter for a human on their own for that long. Benjen couldn't come back to the Wall because he's been wightified and he would definitely want to help Bran on his quest because they're both Starks. Coldhands is certainly more mysterious if he's not Benjen but that doesn't really make him interesting since he's almost assuredly just going to serve the plot function of escorting Bran where he needs to go Beyond the Wall and then disappear or die And Benjen has been gone forever and if George were actually playing by the rules he set up (bringing more realism into fantasy), he should be dead. Him becoming Coldhands is narratively the most logical answer because it links up family memebers who want to help each other and it gives him a legit reason for not being able to return to the story over all this time. The show definitely did a merge but it's a merge that makes total sense and it makes most sane people question why George isn't doing the same thing. It is possible that Benjen is Coldhands in the books but George's concept that since Benjen is now the kinda-sorta-not-quite-corpsesicle kind of deal he is no longer Benjen, as a technicality. One of the Children says that Coldhands has been dead for a long time. For someone who lives for decades, 2 or 3 years isn't a long time. |
|
|
|
Post by Basil on May 30, 2016 19:07:10 GMT
The show definitely did a merge but it's a merge that makes total sense and it makes most sane people question why George isn't doing the same thing. Maybe George has other plans for Benjen we don't know about yet? There are wildling settlements like Hardhome beyond the wall. Benjen could have survived in one of those. |
|
|
|
Post by Zadeth on May 30, 2016 19:11:20 GMT
Calling it now. The Nights King will be defeated by stabbing him with dragonglass and he will turn human again. The other WWs disintegrated because they were never human. They are Crasters sons immediately turned to monsters. But the NK himself was originally a man. Very interesting and plausible theory. It has the potential to look amazing. Guys, can we just have a moment of joyful silence for an episode without Peter Dinklage? (I have nothing against Peter, btw, but it was the right decision to leave him out this time.  )  A much needed break. What was most effective about the Tarly dinner scene was having Randyll just sitting there giving dirty looks for the first few minutes, so you're waiting to hear how he sounds and what kind of dickish thing he's going to say, but you're made to keep waiting for it. Until he starts talking down to Sam and it just escalates into pure, glorious cruelty. Great casting. The scene was fantastic. They captured Randyll perfectly, and the actor played him exquisitely - I am looking forward to seeing more of him. That bloody hand which was in Bran's visions was also in the trailer which we thought was Arya wiping her hand across the wall. Some of those visions are of what is to come this season. The wildfire is going to happen later on as Aerys II didn't actually burn anything down. I think that the bloody hand was Arya killing the Waif ( and possibly taking her face). They kept the casting of Aerys under the radar. I'm looking forward to seeing the Waif and Arya fight. I assume the jumping in the street from the trailer is her running away after killing her/trying to escape from her. I agree, the Wildfire will probably be set off after Tommen dies at some point. Sadly, I can see Cersei locking up the Tyrells in the building she's about to burn.  I just wanna say I really enjoy the glimpses into the past Bran has been giving us. It's really something to me to be able to see things from thousands of years ago, even just 20 years ago. It's been really great to see the scenes! I really enjoyed the Aerys scenes, glad to finally see him. That means Randyll is going to follow Sam to Old Town by which will be invade by the Ironbron and we gonna have a Euron vs Randyll battle!  I wonder if Sam will end up using Heartsbane to save Randyll? Would be quite something, for Sam to prove himself, using the family sword, to Randyll and save him at the same time.  You know that vision Dany had of herself walking into the throne room, and it had been badly burned? I've wondered if that was done by Dany herself (her dragons) or by wildfire. Now I'm thinking, that was Cersei's doing. Dany finaly arrives in KL, and the Lannisters have taken themselves out. She walks in and claims an empty throne. And then the Wall falls down, and the White Walkers flood Westeros. That would be an amazing end to the season. Tommen's death, if it happens in the next few episodes, will definitely set all this off. [/quote] I think Jon's destiny is to become a Night's King. That will be his ultimate sacrife, the only way to stop the WW. I've been thinking this myself recently, I feel like it would be a good end to his arc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:25:00 GMT
The show gave a legitimate reason for a character to be MIA alone in a frozen wasteland that holds no shelter for a human on their own for that long. Benjen couldn't come back to the Wall because he's been wightified and he would definitely want to help Bran on his quest because they're both Starks. Coldhands is certainly more mysterious if he's not Benjen but that doesn't really make him interesting since he's almost assuredly just going to serve the plot function of escorting Bran where he needs to go Beyond the Wall and then disappear or die And Benjen has been gone forever and if George were actually playing by the rules he set up (bringing more realism into fantasy), he should be dead. Him becoming Coldhands is narratively the most logical answer because it links up family memebers who want to help each other and it gives him a legit reason for not being able to return to the story over all this time. The show definitely did a merge but it's a merge that makes total sense and it makes most sane people question why George isn't doing the same thing. It is possible that Benjen is Coldhands in the books but George's concept that since Benjen is now the kinda-sorta-not-quite-corpsesicle kind of deal he is no longer Benjen, as a technicality. I've wondered how much he's done this over the years to keep certain plot points from becoming too obvious under the weight of time and the scrutiny of thousands of eyes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:25:49 GMT
So, the wildfire cellar. Was that the same one Tyrion visited way back in S2? If so, I think it's safe to assume that the shot of the wildfire going boom is from later in the season and MAD QUEEN CERSEI FUCKING CONFIRMED GET HYPE.
|
|
|
|
Post by freypies on May 30, 2016 19:30:49 GMT
Part 3 of the behind the scenes docuseries, covering episodes 5 and 6:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:39:28 GMT
It is actually in my estimation I fucking awful death, and I'll tell you why so then you can understand. First of all it's been done to many times in this series, the mothers of three of the major protagonist have died in childbirth and that's two too many deaths in my estimation. Secondly, to die in childbirth is to leave a child motherless, which is an awful way to be brought up, see exhibits Jon, Dany and Tyrion. The best the child could hope for would be a great father that could possibly, maybe, perhaps find a women who would be willing to bring up this child that is not her own in some relative normalcy with care and love but of course the child will always be reminded that they don't have a mother because their mother was Daenearys Stormborn, Queen of Westeros. Thirdly, death by virtue of being a women is demoralizing. Scientist have been working for a long time to prevent death in children because of all the aforementioned circumstances of leaving a child motherless. Now, I work in Ob/Gyn so maybe I'm a little less receptive to the whole, let me sacrifice myself to give birth, as the people I work with are actively trying to prevent that. So, take that with a grain of sand if you need to. Finally, someone like Dany who has been fighting from the beginning for freedoms, for equality at the table being as a women and to just die because medieval healthcare suck is anticlimactic. If she is going to die, she should die sacrificing herself for the greater good, and when I mean greater I don't mean her families continued lineage, Jon I suppose can become a father, but for the greater good of the world. Because that how I see that character, Dany isn't a small meassures sort of character, she's a go big or go home sort of characters and so should her death be. But as you say, different taste for different folks, right. I agree with you about leaving beind a motherless child to an extent, but I confess I personally would love for Dany to have a child because House Targaryen is my favorite as such, and I would like to see them continue in some fashion. I'm not sure if Jon can do it either (having been magically resurrected and all), not to mention in such a case the mother of his children would most likely be Arya (unfortunately), and those kids would be much more Starks than Targaryens. I love the Starks, but they're Ice to the Targs' Fire for a reason. It wouldn't be the same. Elsewise, I'm not sure if Martin overuses death in childbirth seeing as it had been one of the most common causes of women's death during medieval times. Would it really be more progressive if Rhaella's bedgown caught on fire, Lyanna committed suicide, and Joanna died of a summer chill? Imho, once Martin decided not to include the mothers, it doesn't matter all that much what cause of death he chose for them. They are dead and not important for their children's story. If I complained to Martin, it would be about excluding the mothers in the first place, not making their cause of death childbirth. I understand that some may reservations about a major female character dying this way, but I would be troubled by it only if she died so path would be cleared for a male character to take her place in the plot. Otherwise it just shows that for all her strength and willpower and magic she's still only a human being made of flesh and bones. I certainly don't see death in childbirth demeaning only because it's exclusive to women. Two of my great-grandmothers died in childbirth, although they had been reportedly both very strong and capable women. Unfortunately, humankind aren't a race of the oviparous. Nevertheless I see I hit a nerve, so I'll drop it now. Reagading GRRM use of death by childbirth, there have actually been six mother that I can remember dying of childbirth (Lady Tully, Joanna Lannister, Rhaella Targaryen, Lyanna Stark, Dalla (Mance's wife) and Aemon Steelsong's mother), I would say that is quite a few for this series. I would agree with you that the real problem is using death by childbirth to write the mother out our three heroes stories, but this is very common in fairy tales, see Disney. I would disagree highly that her death in battle fighting to defeat the others would somehow take away from her strength, power and magic, on the contrary it would actually show that it was these traits that allowed her to fight/defeat the others. It was her sacrifice to birth the dragons, her strath to gather her armies that became an integral part of the survival of humanity. It would if not mitigate the saddest of her lost, at least show that her lost was an important factor in the defeat of this plague that threaten to destroy humanity. I'm sorry about your grandmothers, that's really sad and teerible. But I stand by what I said, in this context that Dany's death of childbirth is demoralizing because she died for nothing else than being a woman. And don't worry I'm not mad, I just really hate the idea of Dany dying in childbirth. I would love for her to have children and continue the Targaryen line but I'm not sure that's in her cards. |
|
|
|
Post by Singer of Death on May 30, 2016 19:48:37 GMT
That means Randyll is going to follow Sam to Old Town by which will be invade by the Ironbron and we gonna have a Euron vs Randyll battle! I wonder if Sam will end up using Heartsbane to save Randyll? Would be quite something, for Sam to prove himself, using the family sword, to Randyll and save him at the same time. He will, but probably won't manage to save him. Randyll may be too stubborn to receive help from his unfavorite son. Plus i want Euron to win. |
|
|
|
Post by Father of Dragons on May 30, 2016 19:51:11 GMT
Randyll doesn't deserve to be saved by Sam  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:52:16 GMT
I hope Randyll gets Pyat Pree treatment  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 19:53:56 GMT
Randyll doesn't deserve to be saved by Sam Word! |
|
)
