Maisie speaks out on Sexism roles for women

I think many people are complex in general. Just like some people can be shallow. In my experience that complexity usually relates to their personality and history rather than their gender.

I did, and while it's true that you said feminine women can be tough, you also said that Dany is the most feminist character because she is tough and feminine, which implies women who are not "traditionally feminine" and women who aren't tough are not as feminist, which I disagree with. No kind of women is more feminist that other. 

In every way. Emotional most of all. Men are less complicated. Women are just..more fixed on things. As a person who works with both genders I observed men are more easy going, relaxed, happy. Women are basically just cursed. We feel more, want more, feel the pressure more strongly. It's exhausting.

That doesn't really explain the barrage of questions which implied I said exactly the opposite of what I had, but...

Anyway. I don't necessarily think Dany is the most feminist character out of the lot (although she's up there for sure), but I do think that she's the most feminist in terms of toughness, because she's tough and she's maintained her femininity, yes. IMO part of feminism is not just gaining equality for the sexes, but eradicating the stigma associated with femininity, and a strong, tough female character who is also feminine does a better job of doing that than a strong, female character who is not. But that's not to say that characters like Arya or Brienne aren't feminist, because of course they are. I just think their feminism comes from their challenging of gender-roles first and foremost.

Also RE: the BIB - I think this is ludicrous. All you have to do is look at Cersei. She is not even remotely feminist and very sincerely resents the fact that she is a woman.

I know and I'm sorry, I overreacted. As I said, this is a delicate subject for me and I snapped. Sorry


The problem I have with this idea is that femininity has been restricted for a long time to certain stereotypes, and women who don't fit are usually mocked and their woman status has been questioned. Of course traditional femininity has been stigmatized, and that's a problem, but another problem women face is that society expect them to fit into that traditional femininity and if they don't, they are not considered actual women. They are tomboys, women who act like men, women and female characters that defy the idea women should act a certain way are as important to feminism as those who prove traditional femininity is not the same as being weak.


I was talking in more general terms, referring to women who have different tastes and ideas and personalities, in that regard, no women should be presented as more feminist than other. Of course Cersei is a misogynist, that's her personality, and sadly there are women like her in real life.

Wooo... I went out for the evening / dinner and come back to find this conversation got quite interesting. I won't say overheated because everyone in this group tends to really debate things professionally even when a bit riled up about something. I appreciate all of you for that. Occasionally we say things that are misinterpreted or we didn't mean to say in an offending way but damn it's a far far cry better than the place I used to post in (I will not say the name!). I was actually suspended for getting into a heated feminist debate because I refuse to let feminism define me for my views on sexism. They do NOT have to be the same thing especially if you're a female! Again, you all know me a fair bit more intimately here though so that makes a huge difference. I believe in strong women figures without some sort of feminist agenda attached. That's just how I've been my whole life. I played roller derby for 5 years (my knees are shot!) and that was one of the most empowering experience of my entire life as a woman, next to my 4 years in the military. I'm not butch, I'm not non-feminine, I even wear skirts and do my hair up in braids when I feel like it! I am not defined by my looks, or my sexuality, or my political agendas either. I feel like too often feminists feel like labeling us too, and it's a disservice and makes women look bad. 

As for Arya being a role-model, I think that's a tricky one. I don't think Maisie or anyone else is suggesting young women should become assassins or go after men who have wronged their family with a sharp object (LOL) ... but I DO think she's suggesting young women should not be afraid to portray themselves as strong and non feminine in an often sexist world whether that's Hollywood and roles for young women actors or elsewhere. That was her point. You don't *have* to be the "hot piece" as she calls it.

I don't think there's any character in ASOIAF you should idolize.

Pretty damn serious.