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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 19:11:46 GMT
Also, others have pointed out and I agree, if Brienne kills Stannis it makes Shireen's death completely pointless and that would be even more heartbreaking than it already was so as much as I'm angry about it, I don't want Stannis to die - yet. I mean, I guess her death was pointless anyways since Stannis is never going to make it to the Iron Throne, right?  It would actually piss me off to learn that Stannis burned Shireen for the throne. I'm convinced that he did it because Mel convinced him it's the only way to save the entire world. He allowed his only heir and entire house to go up in smoke, literally, because there won't be any houses after the white walkers come. Well supposedly he did it for both. His reasoning is, he has to take the Iron Throne in order to rule the kingdoms and lead the battle against the White Walkers and because according to Melisandre he's supposed to be the prince who was promised so he has to do this thing ... which starts by taking Wintefell, the North and moving southward. The obvious flaw in that theory is that winter has already come - it's here. Stannis doesn't have time or resources for a long protracted campaign involving marching all the way to King's Landing. Heck, they weren't even going to make it to Winterfell and that's the closest Noble House to the Wall ffs! If you look at it that way, his entire plan is absolute shit and if he's supposed to be a mastermind battle strategist with his map, then he knows damn well he's out of time. Even supposing the LOL (haha) airdrops him supplies and parkas for everyone ... ok ok, I'll stop being snarky. Let's suppose he captures Winterfell ... he's now got all of Winterfell's resources at his back and if he's lucky some of the Norther Lords will back him as a few claimed they would in the books. He STILL has to fight his way all the way south, through a lot of crap like the Freys, the Riverlands and it's Lords, etc etc... it's essentially the same exact thing that Robb Stark faced by deciding to declare himself a king and move south. Except...in this case, Stannis is really screwed because Winter is here and they're snowed in. How long is the Red God going to keep the snows melting? Doesn't sound very likely to me. We know it's a doomed campaign and that's why burning Shireen is so senseless and sad above and beyond the awfulness of burning a child in the first place, for any reason. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:57:50 GMT
It would actually piss me off to learn that Stannis burned Shireen for the throne. I'm convinced that he did it because Mel convinced him it's the only way to save the entire world. He allowed his only heir and entire house to go up in smoke, literally, because there won't be any houses after the white walkers come. Well supposedly he did it for both. His reasoning is, he has to take the Iron Throne in order to rule the kingdoms and lead the battle against the White Walkers and because according to Melisandre he's supposed to be the prince who was promised so he has to do this thing ... which starts by taking Wintefell, the North and moving southward. The obvious flaw in that theory is that winter has already come - it's here. Stannis doesn't have time or resources for a long protracted campaign involving marching all the way to King's Landing. Heck, they weren't even going to make it to Winterfell and that's the closest Noble House to the Wall ffs! If you look at it that way, his entire plan is absolute shit and if he's supposed to be a mastermind battle strategist with his map, then he knows damn well he's out of time. Even supposing the LOL (haha) airdrops him supplies and parkas for everyone ... ok ok, I'll stop being snarky. Let's suppose he captures Winterfell ... he's now got all of Winterfell's resources at his back and if he's lucky some of the Norther Lords will back him as a few claimed they would in the books. He STILL has to fight his way all the way south, through a lot of crap like the Freys, the Riverlands and it's Lords, etc etc... it's essentially the same exact thing that Robb Stark faced by deciding to declare himself a king and move south. Except...in this case, Stannis is really screwed because Winter is here and they're snowed in. How long is the Red God going to keep the snows melting? Doesn't sound very likely to me. We know it's a doomed campaign and that's why burning Shireen is so senseless and sad above and beyond the awfulness of burning a child in the first place, for any reason. Stannis will take Winterfell, rally the northern lords and return to the Wall. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jun 13, 2015 0:23:30 GMT
By the way, in case there was any doubt about the Battle of Ice happening, there is the sound of men shouting and swords clashing just before Mel speaks and sees the icicles melting, so we will almost certainly be getting something.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 0:27:49 GMT
Go Stannis! Kill the bastard! Go Ramsay! Kill the red witch! Go Sansa! Kill the sadist bitch! Go Varys! Kill Pycelle! I think Brienne dies. Hopefully Davos kills Melisandre next season. Can you everyone agree with me that no one posts any leaked description of the finale? And please do a separatd thread for it. Yes, please, please agree...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 1:35:31 GMT
It would actually piss me off to learn that Stannis burned Shireen for the throne. I'm convinced that he did it because Mel convinced him it's the only way to save the entire world. He allowed his only heir and entire house to go up in smoke, literally, because there won't be any houses after the white walkers come. Well supposedly he did it for both. His reasoning is, he has to take the Iron Throne in order to rule the kingdoms and lead the battle against the White Walkers and because according to Melisandre he's supposed to be the prince who was promised so he has to do this thing ... which starts by taking Wintefell, the North and moving southward. The obvious flaw in that theory is that winter has already come - it's here. Stannis doesn't have time or resources for a long protracted campaign involving marching all the way to King's Landing. Heck, they weren't even going to make it to Winterfell and that's the closest Noble House to the Wall ffs! If you look at it that way, his entire plan is absolute shit and if he's supposed to be a mastermind battle strategist with his map, then he knows damn well he's out of time. Even supposing the LOL (haha) airdrops him supplies and parkas for everyone ... ok ok, I'll stop being snarky. Let's suppose he captures Winterfell ... he's now got all of Winterfell's resources at his back and if he's lucky some of the Norther Lords will back him as a few claimed they would in the books. He STILL has to fight his way all the way south, through a lot of crap like the Freys, the Riverlands and it's Lords, etc etc... it's essentially the same exact thing that Robb Stark faced by deciding to declare himself a king and move south. Except...in this case, Stannis is really screwed because Winter is here and they're snowed in. How long is the Red God going to keep the snows melting? Doesn't sound very likely to me. We know it's a doomed campaign and that's why burning Shireen is so senseless and sad above and beyond the awfulness of burning a child in the first place, for any reason. Speaking of, perhaps this is his Substitute Hand while Davos is away:  |
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Post by freeparking on Jun 13, 2015 5:16:33 GMT
I will be annoyed if every story ends on a fucking cliffhanger like the books.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 13:07:15 GMT
I will be annoyed if every story ends on a fucking cliffhanger like the books. I think only the Wall will end with a cliffhanger. Winterfell possibly also. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 17:02:01 GMT
I will be annoyed if every story ends on a fucking cliffhanger like the books. I think only the Wall will end with a cliffhanger. Winterfell possibly also. What about Varys and his little birds shown after Kevin is stabbed? I know that's Epilogue at the end of ADWD, so do you think that won't be included until Season 6? Or that it'll happen but without the little birds? I know everything can't be a cliffhanger, but I really want to see the little birds, especially after the little children wights that killed (can't remember her name) the female chieftain at Hardhome. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 19:03:49 GMT
I think only the Wall will end with a cliffhanger. Winterfell possibly also. What about Varys and his little birds shown after Kevin is stabbed? I know that's Epilogue at the end of ADWD, so do you think that won't be included until Season 6? Or that it'll happen but without the little birds? I know everything can't be a cliffhanger, but I really want to see the little birds, especially after the little children wights that killed (can't remember her name) the female chieftain at Hardhome. I think we'll have the epilogue in the finale. But is that really a cliffhanger? |
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Post by King Tommen on Jun 13, 2015 19:08:50 GMT
I think only the Wall will end with a cliffhanger. Winterfell possibly also. What about Varys and his little birds shown after Kevin is stabbed? I know that's Epilogue at the end of ADWD, so do you think that won't be included until Season 6? Or that it'll happen but without the little birds? I know everything can't be a cliffhanger, but I really want to see the little birds, especially after the little children wights that killed (can't remember her name) the female chieftain at Hardhome. I realize that Varys has referenced having "little birds" once or twice on the show but I have a hard time picturing the epilogue sequence occurring as it does in the book with him having a bunch of little kids come out of the shadows. That doesn't seem like something the show version of Varys would have done. If we see it, I picture him being the one to do the deed, probably with a crossbow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 19:16:34 GMT
I keep accidentally clicking on the spoiler thread and scrambling to close it before reading anything. How the fuck did this entire season did get leaked??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 19:45:34 GMT
What about Varys and his little birds shown after Kevin is stabbed? I know that's Epilogue at the end of ADWD, so do you think that won't be included until Season 6? Or that it'll happen but without the little birds? I know everything can't be a cliffhanger, but I really want to see the little birds, especially after the little children wights that killed (can't remember her name) the female chieftain at Hardhome. I think we'll have the epilogue in the finale. But is that really a cliffhanger? It was for me in the books because of the little children that came forth with daggers after Varys had talked to Kevin, then said it was time to put an end to it. That left me with my mouth hanging open. But I suppose if we only see Varys killing Pycelle and Kevin, it's not really so much of one, since show Varys has talked so explicitly to Tyrion about whom he backed. (I actually was looking forward to seeing the children with daggers, though, a la Hardhome.) Oh, well . . . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 19:52:18 GMT
What about Varys and his little birds shown after Kevin is stabbed? I know that's Epilogue at the end of ADWD, so do you think that won't be included until Season 6? Or that it'll happen but without the little birds? I know everything can't be a cliffhanger, but I really want to see the little birds, especially after the little children wights that killed (can't remember her name) the female chieftain at Hardhome. I realize that Varys has referenced having "little birds" once or twice on the show but I have a hard time picturing the epilogue sequence occurring as it does in the book with him having a bunch of little kids come out of the shadows. That doesn't seem like something the show version of Varys would have done. If we see it, I picture him being the one to do the deed, probably with a crossbow. I guess you're right. As I just was writing a response to Roose Is Azor Ahai, I thought about show Varys, particularly early in Season 5 when he was talking to Tyrion in Pentos, and there's no mystery about whom he backs, so I guess he can just do the deed by himself with a crossbow. But in the books, I'm still hanging on a cliff wanting to know all about the children who stepped forth with daggers after Varys had shot Kevin with the crossbow. It was a shock to me to learn that he did have 'little birds' after all. So I wondered how he trains them, what further work they will do, how they will figure in the rest of the story, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 21:42:15 GMT
I realize that Varys has referenced having "little birds" once or twice on the show but I have a hard time picturing the epilogue sequence occurring as it does in the book with him having a bunch of little kids come out of the shadows. That doesn't seem like something the show version of Varys would have done. If we see it, I picture him being the one to do the deed, probably with a crossbow. I guess you're right. As I just was writing a response to Roose Is Azor Ahai, I thought about show Varys, particularly early in Season 5 when he was talking to Tyrion in Pentos, and there's no mystery about whom he backs, so I guess he can just do the deed by himself with a crossbow. But in the books, I'm still hanging on a cliff wanting to know all about the children who stepped forth with daggers after Varys had shot Kevin with the crossbow. It was a shock to me to learn that he did have 'little birds' after all. So I wondered how he trains them, what further work they will do, how they will figure in the rest of the story, etc. One of Varys' little birds was the kid who handed the scroll with the royal pardon on it to Jorah back in whatever season that scene happened, right? They've been shown a bit. They were in the courtyard doing yard work (and an old lady) in the Red Keep - Littlefinger pointed them out as either his or Varys spies or the Queen's ... who was that he was talking to? My memory is fuzzy now. I think the "little birds" as children theme has been played on just enough in the show they could do the Kevan scene if they wanted but I don't think they will. Mostly because there's no real dramatic impact for show watchers like there was in the books on that and they've not really played on Kevan's role much at all on the show and Varys being MIA and presumed in Essos also makes me doubt the Kevan scene is even going to happen or if it does, it happens offscreen and someone just finds him dead. Personally I'm hoping they skip or condense it because there's other scenes I feel need more screen time in the finale and I'm already worried they're going to rush some things. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 23:03:48 GMT
I guess you're right. As I just was writing a response to Roose Is Azor Ahai, I thought about show Varys, particularly early in Season 5 when he was talking to Tyrion in Pentos, and there's no mystery about whom he backs, so I guess he can just do the deed by himself with a crossbow. But in the books, I'm still hanging on a cliff wanting to know all about the children who stepped forth with daggers after Varys had shot Kevin with the crossbow. It was a shock to me to learn that he did have 'little birds' after all. So I wondered how he trains them, what further work they will do, how they will figure in the rest of the story, etc. One of Varys' little birds was the kid who handed the scroll with the royal pardon on it to Jorah back in whatever season that scene happened, right? They've been shown a bit. They were in the courtyard doing yard work (and an old lady) in the Red Keep - Littlefinger pointed them out as either his or Varys spies or the Queen's ... who was that he was talking to? My memory is fuzzy now. I think the "little birds" as children theme has been played on just enough in the show they could do the Kevan scene if they wanted but I don't think they will. Mostly because there's no real dramatic impact for show watchers like there was in the books on that and they've not really played on Kevan's role much at all on the show and Varys being MIA and presumed in Essos also makes me doubt the Kevan scene is even going to happen or if it does, it happens offscreen and someone just finds him dead. Personally I'm hoping they skip or condense it because there's other scenes I feel need more screen time in the finale and I'm already worried they're going to rush some things. I would not have made all those connections. I remember the child who handed the scroll to Jorah but didn't connect him to Varys, thought he was just a random local kid someone paid to deliver the scroll, and I do remember people in the courtyard LF pointed out to Ned as Vary's spies, but I didn't connect them to the children in the Epilogue of ADWD (and didn't even look at them very closely, I don't think). I know I wouldn't have picked up on either incident in the books as connected to the Epilogue. I swear, I read through the books so quickly just wanting to find out what happened, and I was also reading on a "This is a really good story" level, not an introspective or critically thinking one. There is just SO much to all of this. I'm due for a slow and careful re-read. |
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Post by arthucus on Jun 14, 2015 2:29:30 GMT
WW will kill Roose. It is known. Besides, who Stark could kill him? Rickon? No = obvious Bran? No = obvious Sansa? No = won't work Jon? No = FTW Arya? No = she knows himShe's faceless and shit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 9:11:12 GMT
WW will kill Roose. It is known. Besides, who Stark could kill him? Rickon? No = obvious Bran? No = obvious Sansa? No = won't work Jon? No = FTW Arya? No = she knows himShe's faceless and shit. [brp] IIRC Faceless Men can't kill person they know or have met. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 9:13:10 GMT
[brp] IIRC Faceless Men can't kill person they know or have met. You're right they can't. I imagine Arya will go rogue at some point and not let those rules stop her...but officially they can't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 9:13:17 GMT
One of Varys' little birds was the kid who handed the scroll with the royal pardon on it to Jorah back in whatever season that scene happened, right? They've been shown a bit. They were in the courtyard doing yard work (and an old lady) in the Red Keep - Littlefinger pointed them out as either his or Varys spies or the Queen's ... who was that he was talking to? My memory is fuzzy now. I think the "little birds" as children theme has been played on just enough in the show they could do the Kevan scene if they wanted but I don't think they will. Mostly because there's no real dramatic impact for show watchers like there was in the books on that and they've not really played on Kevan's role much at all on the show and Varys being MIA and presumed in Essos also makes me doubt the Kevan scene is even going to happen or if it does, it happens offscreen and someone just finds him dead. Personally I'm hoping they skip or condense it because there's other scenes I feel need more screen time in the finale and I'm already worried they're going to rush some things. I would not have made all those connections. I remember the child who handed the scroll to Jorah but didn't connect him to Varys, thought he was just a random local kid someone paid to deliver the scroll, and I do remember people in the courtyard LF pointed out to Ned as Vary's spies, but I didn't connect them to the children in the Epilogue of ADWD (and didn't even look at them very closely, I don't think). I know I wouldn't have picked up on either incident in the books as connected to the Epilogue. I swear, I read through the books so quickly just wanting to find out what happened, and I was also reading on a "This is a really good story" level, not an introspective or critically thinking one. There is just SO much to all of this. I'm due for a slow and careful re-read. Illyrio finds young children and cuts their tongues out. Then he sells/gives them to Varys. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 10:30:54 GMT
I fear for Davos.. It could be likely that he arrives at the Wall during the chaos.
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