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Post by Father of Dragons on May 20, 2015 16:25:03 GMT
There are so many Sansas in the profile picture spot it's so hard to keep track!
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valyrianshadow
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"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 20, 2015 21:12:24 GMT
Yeah I don't think Brienne killing Stannis would be "internet breaking". Well it would be life breaking for me and Sati but FTW is definitely more shocking for Unsullied. Unless they make it way too obvious it's going to happen. If Edd is involved I'll riot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 0:01:30 GMT
Yeah I don't think Brienne killing Stannis would be "internet breaking". Well it would be life breaking for me and Sati but FTW is definitely more shocking for Unsullied. Unless they make it way too obvious it's going to happen. If Edd is involved I'll riot. I'll be sat in my corner, spewing hate about Brienne ex machina... I will break the internet. Or at least, a page or two...
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 21:18:41 GMT
I think that the book and the show will have different versions about the events after FTW. In the books Jon might be resurrected, but I think that the show won't do this(cutting LSH). He might survive the stabbing, warg into ghost or even die permanently.
If Edd dies at Hardhome and Sam's off to Oldtown (is he really?) then Jon has no friends there except Tormund.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 8:33:58 GMT
I think that the book and the show will have different versions about the events after FTW. In the books Jon might be resurrected, but I think that the show won't do this(cutting LSH). He might survive the stabbing, warg into ghost or even die permanently. If Edd dies at Hardhome and Sam's off to Oldtown (is he really?) then Jon has no friends there except Tormund. Hobb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 12:33:41 GMT
Olly will be nodding all the way through the stabbing I reckon.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 14:27:50 GMT
Olly will be nodding all the way through the stabbing I reckon. I think he'll be screaming "FOR THE WATCH!" personally.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 14:33:22 GMT
Yeah I don't think Brienne killing Stannis would be "internet breaking". Well it would be life breaking for me and Sati but FTW is definitely more shocking for Unsullied. Unless they make it way too obvious it's going to happen. If Edd is involved I'll riot. Stannis cant die! Brienne can't kill Stannis! There is scientific reasoning behind this. Brienne ex machina can only meet plot convinience, Stannis is constantly met by plot inconvinience, ie wildfire, Renlys, snowstorms, stubborn bastards etc. Thus by laws of physics the two cannot be in the same area at the same time. If they are in the same area the meeting could create a substantial plot hole, large enough to rip the universe apart. It is known.
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valyrianshadow
Snark
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Posts: 943
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 30, 2015 16:53:11 GMT
Yeah I don't think Brienne killing Stannis would be "internet breaking". Well it would be life breaking for me and Sati but FTW is definitely more shocking for Unsullied. Unless they make it way too obvious it's going to happen. If Edd is involved I'll riot. Stannis cant die! Brienne can't kill Stannis! There is scientific reasoning behind this. Brienne ex machina can only meet plot convinience, Stannis is constantly met by plot inconvinience, ie wildfire, Renlys, snowstorms, stubborn bastards etc. Thus by laws of physics the two cannot be in the same area at the same time. If they are in the same area the meeting could create a substantial plot hole, large enough to rip the universe apart. It is known. Renlys is not right!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 16:58:20 GMT
Stannis cant die! Brienne can't kill Stannis! There is scientific reasoning behind this. Brienne ex machina can only meet plot convinience, Stannis is constantly met by plot inconvinience, ie wildfire, Renlys, snowstorms, stubborn bastards etc. Thus by laws of physics the two cannot be in the same area at the same time. If they are in the same area the meeting could create a substantial plot hole, large enough to rip the universe apart. It is known. Renlys is not right! A wild Renly tried to usurp Stannis' crown. I'd list him as a plot inconvenience for Stannis.
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valyrianshadow
Snark
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Posts: 943
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 30, 2015 17:02:24 GMT
A wild Renly tried to usurp Stannis' crown. I'd list him as a plot inconvenience for Stannis. I knew this would happen when I typed it lol. "Renly is not right!" was a meme from a while back. I added the s because you said Renlys and I laughed. Look up Renly is not right there are some funny things! Yeah Renly had to go.
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Post by Admin on May 30, 2015 17:03:40 GMT
Stannis cant die! Brienne can't kill Stannis! There is scientific reasoning behind this. Brienne ex machina can only meet plot convinience, Stannis is constantly met by plot inconvinience, ie wildfire, Renlys, snowstorms, stubborn bastards etc. Thus by laws of physics the two cannot be in the same area at the same time. If they are in the same area the meeting could create a substantial plot hole, large enough to rip the universe apart. It is known. Renlys is not right! I laughed so hard at that line
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 17:09:31 GMT
A wild Renly tried to usurp Stannis' crown. I'd list him as a plot inconvenience for Stannis. I knew this would happen when I typed it lol. "Renly is not right!" was a meme from a while back. I added the s because you said Renlys and I laughed. Look up Renly is not right there are some funny things! Yeah Renly had to go. Oh I remember the meme! I just wanted to bash Renly a bit. He was so annoying. "Stannis isn't a king. I am!" You see the look on Ned's face when he says that? Priceless.
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Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2015 18:17:40 GMT
The fact that they have very deliberately removed any of the Stark warging abilities outside of Bran more or less has to mean the show will have Jon's stabbing go differently than it does in the books.
Heavy odds on Melisandre simply reviving him since she saw that Thoros could do it and he told her that he didn't even know how or why he was able to do it.
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Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:09:01 GMT
This season has spent a fair amount of time building up Ollie as Jon's killer. But Ollie isn't part of some conspiracy - he's acting alone. Ollie clearly made the decision to kill Jon as a result of Sam's speech about having the courage to do what's right.
I think Thorne will air some more grievances in 5x09, but ultimately respect Jon's authority because Thorne is a good man of the Night's Watch at his core. And then Ollie will kill Jon in 5x10. Almost certainly with arrows instead of knives - no way Ollie could represent a threat to Jon in melee combat. Anyway, with all of the shooting of people in Jon's storyline, it feels kind of right that Jon be shot.
When Jon gets back to the Wall, Sam will immediately petition to go for maester training because Sam has realized that he and Gilly can't stay at the Wall. They'll get out in time. Edd, Thorne, and Tormund will be around when Jon dies and will participate in the wildling vs Night's Watchmen melee. I think there is a decent chance that Tormund will kill Thorne at that point - they exchanged a significant glare when Jon was setting out for Hardhome and Thorne is going to be a dick to the wildlings in 5x09.
I agree that Melissandre will revive Jon. Can't be Bran since he's not around. Shouldn't be warging since that hasn't been set up (and what on earth would the show do with Jon-trapped-in-a-wolf as a plot line?). Melissandre has been set up and just barely has time to get into place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 13:32:22 GMT
This season has spent a fair amount of time building up Ollie as Jon's killer. But Ollie isn't part of some conspiracy - he's acting alone. Ollie clearly made the decision to kill Jon as a result of Sam's speech about having the courage to do what's right. I think Thorne will air some more grievances in 5x09, but ultimately respect Jon's authority because Thorne is a good man of the Night's Watch at his core. And then Ollie will kill Jon in 5x10. Almost certainly with arrows instead of knives - no way Ollie could represent a threat to Jon in melee combat. Anyway, with all of the shooting of people in Jon's storyline, it feels kind of right that Jon be shot. When Jon gets back to the Wall, Sam will immediately petition to go for maester training because Sam has realized that he and Gilly can't stay at the Wall. They'll get out in time. Edd, Thorne, and Tormund will be around when Jon dies and will participate in the wildling vs Night's Watchmen melee. I think there is a decent chance that Tormund will kill Thorne at that point - they exchanged a significant glare when Jon was setting out for Hardhome and Thorne is going to be a dick to the wildlings in 5x09. I agree that Melissandre will revive Jon. Can't be Bran since he's not around. Shouldn't be warging since that hasn't been set up (and what on earth would the show do with Jon-trapped-in-a-wolf as a plot line?). Melissandre has been set up and just barely has time to get into place. Oh, I think warging is definetely in. During one of the promotional interviews, at Oxford, prior to the season bringing Kit said something along the lines of "I want to get into a wolf" and Dan says two words "Season 6".
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 2, 2015 13:33:34 GMT
The fact that they have very deliberately removed any of the Stark warging abilities outside of Bran more or less has to mean the show will have Jon's stabbing go differently than it does in the books. Heavy odds on Melisandre simply reviving him since she saw that Thoros could do it and he told her that he didn't even know how or why he was able to do it. Random thoughts/predictions: -I think most of us assume that Jon will warg into Ghost after the stabbing, but it's possible that it doesn't go down this way. I know it was "tongue-and-cheek" but the showrunners did say "Season 6" when Kit Harrington said he "wants to get into a wolf", which turned out to be a funny twist of words. Holding out hope. -I think Olly is a red herring. It's way too convenient to have him stab Jon. -Sam will be departing the Wall before 5.10. -Any NW brothers that traveled with Jon to Hardhome have to support his cause after what they witnessed at Hardhome. -Jon still hasn't heard about Sansa being in Winterfell (he doesn't have this knowledge yet, like he did with the fArya in the books) and once he does via a letter, he decides he wants to intervene. Ultimately, this is where the mutiny will go down, not because of helping out the Wildlings, although I'm sure there is bad blood still from the NW crew that stayed behind. -Melisandre will return to the wall. She is going to betray Stannis and attempt to burn Shireen. Hoping her plot fails. -Jon's survival or death will be pretty clear at the end of 5.10. But Melisandre will play a part.
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Post by Enid on Jun 2, 2015 14:18:27 GMT
I know I'm going to sound like a bitch, but I don't want the show to have a Pink Letter, because I don't think Jon would break his vows for Sansa. It has nothing to do with Sansa herself, because she deserves to get all the help she can get, is just that breaking his vows is a huge deal for Jon, and in the books he did it because he thought he was helping Arya, the sibling he misses the most, the one he is closest to. If it was Sansa the one married to Ramsay, I think he would try to help if he could, but not to the point of breaking his vows.
It makes me feel kind of bad, because I don't think Arya deserves his help more than Sansa or anything like that, is just that the relationship between Jon and Sansa was kind of distant in the books, and the show has done to change that idea.
IMO the FTW moment will happen because Jon is letting the wildings go south of the Wall, they have showed is not a popular decision between his men, Allister may have done some plotting while Jon was busy in Hardhome, and Ollie seems really conflicted about Jon, he admires him, but his hate towards the wildings and the fact that he has never seen a wight or a white walker probably means he sees Jon's actions as a huge mistake.
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Post by lordcarson on Jun 2, 2015 14:43:48 GMT
^I would have to sort of agree with that. Jon was still torn about breaking his vows, even for Arya. He's already shown that he wouldn't do it for Robb and Ned (though he was close) and if he really wanted to, he would have gone after Bran. He has far closer relationships with all of them than with Sansa. Maybe the rest of the letter will prompt Jon to want to go, but it would feel strange to me if he finally broke his vows for the person who built her opinion of him based on Catelyn's pure hatred.
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Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:14:38 GMT
Frankly, I don't see Jon breaking his vows for any family member after he saw what happened at Hardhome. Jon just saw an entire people brutally massacred and turned into an army of the dead in like 2 hours. He believes that he's basically the only thing protecting Westeros from that massive army of the undead. No way he's going to be distracted from that. He'll be sad for his sister, but it would be character assassination to divert Jon from the Wall after that Hardhome sequence.
Further, Jon has no army to lead to Winterfell in the show. He has a couple dozen able bodied men of the Night's Watch and a few hundred (ish?) traumatized Wildling refugees (that are probably disproportionately children and elderly). And one giant. If Stannis' 6000 were defeated already, Jon couldn't possibly think his meager forces would matter.
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