sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
Posts: 354
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Post by sj4iy on May 19, 2015 3:03:50 GMT
We have at least two and a half seasons to go (if not more). There is plenty of time for revenge. Nobody said there is no time, friend. We are wondering if the characters will achieve it, against who, and how. As I said on the main post, for me it was obvious that Joffrey would be killed by one of the "good guys", yet he was killed by Olenna Tyrell as a plot of her own - not exactly revenge, right? I hope you understand what the topic is about now. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get revenge. Really, the story hasn't never truly had revenge for vengeance's sake, so I'm not really expecting it to happen. |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 19, 2015 3:06:53 GMT
Nobody said there is no time, friend. We are wondering if the characters will achieve it, against who, and how. As I said on the main post, for me it was obvious that Joffrey would be killed by one of the "good guys", yet he was killed by Olenna Tyrell as a plot of her own - not exactly revenge, right? I hope you understand what the topic is about now. We already have two characters down, dead to other reasons that don't involve Starks. I was hoping Robb (or Sansa) would chop Joffrey's head off, that some Stark would get Tywin (it was Tyrion), Theon has been tortured by Ramsey-I think whatever punishment he would gotten from a Stark would have been kinder, Roose Bolton is probably going to die by Stannis's hand, Ramsey probably by someone's else's hand for a very good reason, Walder Frey and his family are not very well liked, show wise a Faceless Man might take them out. I would love to see Arya get some people on her hit list but I bet she doesn't. Oh and Cersei and Jaime will probably kill each other. Littlefinger's role in Ned's betrayal isn't well known, so unless some major revelation happens, someone else (Varys?) will probably kill him. While I would not miss any of these characters, the thought that their demises will come around not via a Stark depresses me. I see what you mean. In fact I think the only ones that the Starks may actually get revenge on are Ramsay (in the hands of Sansa/Theon), Walder (since there is no Stoneheart, it pretty much leaves him as an open question, right), and Cersei (although it seems more likely that she and Jaime kill each other). The rest will not meet their demise in the hands of the Stark, I guess. Roose and Littlefinger certainly deserve it. |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 19, 2015 3:09:24 GMT
Nobody said there is no time, friend. We are wondering if the characters will achieve it, against who, and how. As I said on the main post, for me it was obvious that Joffrey would be killed by one of the "good guys", yet he was killed by Olenna Tyrell as a plot of her own - not exactly revenge, right? I hope you understand what the topic is about now. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get revenge. Really, the story hasn't never truly had revenge for vengeance's sake, so I'm not really expecting it to happen. That is an interesting - and I think likely! - point of view. Still, if you are proven right, it will not be because "there was no time", but because it would never happen anyway. I just wanted to make it clear that we're not worried with time, we're thinking about the circunstances and possibilities of the revenges. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 8:17:01 GMT
Totally unrelated but that gif in your sig!! hahaha hilarious Oh and i think revenge for the starks will come from other people. Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon and Jon will never get to do anything. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 10:53:27 GMT
Totally unrelated but that gif in your sig!! hahaha hilarious Oh and i think revenge for the starks will come from other people. Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon and Jon will never get to do anything. That gif was posted by Nezzer? in the funny memes thread. Yeah, different people will get to those who hurted the Starks. Ramsay - Stannis Roose - WW/Stannis Cersei - Jaime I believe LF will be killed by Sansa in the books and by Varys or Roose in the show. |
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Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 14:04:46 GMT
We already have two characters down, dead to other reasons that don't involve Starks. I was hoping Robb (or Sansa) would chop Joffrey's head off, that some Stark would get Tywin (it was Tyrion), Theon has been tortured by Ramsey-I think whatever punishment he would gotten from a Stark would have been kinder, Roose Bolton is probably going to die by Stannis's hand, Ramsey probably by someone's else's hand for a very good reason, Walder Frey and his family are not very well liked, show wise a Faceless Man might take them out. I would love to see Arya get some people on her hit list but I bet she doesn't. Oh and Cersei and Jaime will probably kill each other. Littlefinger's role in Ned's betrayal isn't well known, so unless some major revelation happens, someone else (Varys?) will probably kill him. While I would not miss any of these characters, the thought that their demises will come around not via a Stark depresses me. In general, I don't see the "good guys" getting revenge in this series very often. Partly because pursuit of revenge, particularly in the face of existential threats, makes you not a good guy. Also bad guys inherently have a higher body count than good guys, so a lot of the deaths just have to be fairly bad people killed by other fairly bad people. Janos Slynt's execution was carefully worked to give a Jon a "noble" reason to kill Slynt that incidentally allowed a Stark to take revenge against a Stark enemy. And Arya has managed to kill a few people she wanted dead though at some point she needs bigger, better goals. And surely the Freys are going to be wiped off the map by agents of house Stark. But I'd like some Starks to keep their hands clean so I can feel good about them having power at the end of this whole thing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 14:09:16 GMT
Maybe Brynden and Greatjon can turn up with Stark loyalists?
It is possible, if HBO even remember who they are at this point...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 0:08:55 GMT
I think 'karma' may be a better hope than true revenge for the Starks. It's a long-term goal that isn't going to come before Winter, that's for sure. That theme has been hammered into our heads from Day one and if we expect anything good before that then we truly are sweet summer children.  After the snow melts, and the dust settles and the fires burn out, we'll see who remains living and how they somehow avenged their family in the Stark line. |
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serpounce
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Post by serpounce on May 20, 2015 11:57:30 GMT
I'd rather Roose kill Ramsay than Sansa or Theon. Roose would do it thoroughly, and wouldn't be traumatized by the proceeding. And with any luck, Ramsay would manage to kill Roose while dying. I have a hunch that Sansa will wreck havoc on the Boltons by having Roose think Ramsey has done something to Walda. It would be the easiest way to rid herself of Ramsey and show what she's really learned from her time with LF: ridding herself of an enemy while keeping her hands clean. |
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serpounce
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Post by serpounce on May 20, 2015 12:02:54 GMT
Nobody said there is no time, friend. We are wondering if the characters will achieve it, against who, and how. As I said on the main post, for me it was obvious that Joffrey would be killed by one of the "good guys", yet he was killed by Olenna Tyrell as a plot of her own - not exactly revenge, right? I hope you understand what the topic is about now. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get revenge. Really, the story hasn't never truly had revenge for vengeance's sake, so I'm not really expecting it to happen. I totally agree. I even anticipate 1 or 2 of our villains (Varys, LF, perhaps Roose) to get away with their deeds at the end of the story. That's how things happen in real life and Martin does seem to want realism in his story. |
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Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 12:58:33 GMT
I'd rather Roose kill Ramsay than Sansa or Theon. Roose would do it thoroughly, and wouldn't be traumatized by the proceeding. And with any luck, Ramsay would manage to kill Roose while dying. I have a hunch that Sansa will wreck havoc on the Boltons by having Roose think Ramsey has done something to Walda. It would be the easiest way to rid herself of Ramsey and show what she's really learned from her time with LF: ridding herself of an enemy while keeping her hands clean. That's a good point. I think that would happen in the form of Sansa goading Ramsay into killing Walda, rather than Sansa framing Ramsay for it. |
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Post by day dreamer on May 20, 2015 13:16:04 GMT
I'd rather Roose kill Ramsay than Sansa or Theon. Roose would do it thoroughly, and wouldn't be traumatized by the proceeding. And with any luck, Ramsay would manage to kill Roose while dying. I have a hunch that Sansa will wreck havoc on the Boltons by having Roose think Ramsey has done something to Walda. It would be the easiest way to rid herself of Ramsey and show what she's really learned from her time with LF: ridding herself of an enemy while keeping her hands clean. That's interesting. Maybe she, Theon, Bri and Pod kidnap Walda  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 13:18:55 GMT
I have a hunch that Sansa will wreck havoc on the Boltons by having Roose think Ramsey has done something to Walda. It would be the easiest way to rid herself of Ramsey and show what she's really learned from her time with LF: ridding herself of an enemy while keeping her hands clean. That's interesting. Maybe she, Theon, Bri and Pod kidnap Walda I know she's a Frey and all, but I don't blame her for her bad family and I kinda have a soft spot for Walda now. They really played her up more than I expected and it works! Man, I hope nothin' bad happens to her ... and by proxy, the little baby Bolton. Gah I never thought I'd say something like that!  |
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Post by day dreamer on May 20, 2015 13:23:05 GMT
That's interesting. Maybe she, Theon, Bri and Pod kidnap Walda I know she's a Frey and all, but I don't blame her for her bad family and I kinda have a soft spot for Walda now. They really played her up more than I expected and it works! Man, I hope nothin' bad happens to her ... and by proxy, the little baby Bolton. Gah I never thought I'd say something like that! I always had a little soft spot for Walda and Rosalyn because they seem like decent girls stuck in a crazy family. |
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Post by breakfest on May 20, 2015 13:26:40 GMT
Ramsay's inevitable death will have to come about in some part because of his own actions. Much like Joffrey, you can't terrorise people to such an extent without something coming back at you. It's not so much karma as getting in too deep - I don't think the world of GoT believes in karma.
I think that's why the essence of his downfall could well be something ironic and widely predicted: somebody flaying him alive. Of course it's just a theory but it really would make sense for someone as horrific as Ramsay to meet his fate in such a horrifically graphic way that even the audience would find little pleasure from it (well most of us anyway).
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 20, 2015 13:58:50 GMT
I know she's a Frey and all, but I don't blame her for her bad family and I kinda have a soft spot for Walda now. They really played her up more than I expected and it works! Man, I hope nothin' bad happens to her ... and by proxy, the little baby Bolton. Gah I never thought I'd say something like that! I always had a little soft spot for Walda and Rosalyn because they seem like decent girls stuck in a crazy family. Do you mean Roslin Frey, Edmure's wife? Yeah I have the same soft spot for these characters. But I think Walda will be treated by her enemies as if she were both a Frey AND a Bolton (well, she is both, but she is much more likeable than everybody from these houses). |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 20, 2015 14:00:48 GMT
Ramsay's inevitable death will have to come about in some part because of his own actions. Much like Joffrey, you can't terrorise people to such an extent without something coming back at you. It's not so much karma as getting in too deep - I don't think the world of GoT believes in karma. I think that's why the essence of his downfall could well be something ironic and widely predicted: somebody flaying him alive. Of course it's just a theory but it really would make sense for someone as horrific as Ramsay to meet his fate in such a horrifically graphic way that even the audience would find little pleasure from it (well most of us anyway). I really have no idea what waits Ramsay in the future, neither in the books nor in the show. But we all agree he will die eventually, either heroically (in the show, it is possible for Brienne, Sansa, Theon or Stannis to kill him... A lot of candidates) or, like you said, in an unpleasant way (Roose can flay him... Or he can live more than we expect and die to some other player, like Littlefinger?) |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 20, 2015 14:03:33 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get revenge. Really, the story hasn't never truly had revenge for vengeance's sake, so I'm not really expecting it to happen. I totally agree. I even anticipate 1 or 2 of our villains (Varys, LF, perhaps Roose) to get away with their deeds at the end of the story. That's how things happen in real life and Martin does seem to want realism in his story. Ser Pounce, you chose exactly the three ones I'd guess have the biggest chance of escaping untouched. Characters like Ramsay, Cersei and Walder Frey will for sure meet some kind of demise for what they have done. But Roose, Littlefinger and Varys are way too clever to just be caught (well, Tywin was too and he died pooping, to who knows). |
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Post by day dreamer on May 20, 2015 15:19:08 GMT
I always had a little soft spot for Walda and Rosalyn because they seem like decent girls stuck in a crazy family. Do you mean Roslin Frey, Edmure's wife? Yeah I have the same soft spot for these characters. But I think Walda will be treated by her enemies as if she were both a Frey AND a Bolton (well, she is both, but she is much more likeable than everybody from these houses). Oh God, yes Roslin. Spelling, what spelling? |
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serpounce
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Post by serpounce on May 20, 2015 22:27:33 GMT
I totally agree. I even anticipate 1 or 2 of our villains (Varys, LF, perhaps Roose) to get away with their deeds at the end of the story. That's how things happen in real life and Martin does seem to want realism in his story. Ser Pounce, you chose exactly the three ones I'd guess have the biggest chance of escaping untouched. Characters like Ramsay, Cersei and Walder Frey will for sure meet some kind of demise for what they have done. But Roose, Littlefinger and Varys are way too clever to just be caught (well, Tywin was too and he died pooping, to who knows). Yes, Tywin died pooping but that was not a planned death. Tyrion was an emotional wreck at that point. Tywin, no doubt, thought he was safe in his own rooms so I think that death isn't a typical one. I think if he had been on Tyrion's side during the trial, he'd have been one to survive the series as well. But of course, he had to die, just as Ned did, in order to move the story forward and allow his kids to self destruct. |
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