Sansa-Ramsay Scene: Your Thoughts?

I know, right? I can't even remember what parts of it that he said were controversial. Maybe Sansa's willingness to play with Harry like she did on the dance floor, icr.

You guys should listen to this. They start talking about Winterfell at 48:30. I agree with pretty much everything Joanna says about the rape scene.

www.slashfilm.com/a-cast-of-kings-s5e06-unbent-unbowed-unbroken/

Until we know what that chapter contains, that is a very good possibility.
Edit: Never mind, I just saw the posts that stated that the Sansa chapter released was the controversial one.  I did not see anything controversial about it.  Anyway....back to regularly scheduled programming.

I think you make great points about Walda here.  She knows her place and what her job is.  I am pretty sure Roose is not her ideal husband but she knows her place and maybe being with him is seen as an upgrade over the miserable Twins with her father.  Or she is someone trying to make the best out of her situation.

I think you have good points about Harry the Heir being the possible rapist instead of Ramsay and perhaps both come to the same conclusion, so switching them up would be a good call for the show. They've merged and switched roles in characters a few times in the series so far and it's worked for the most part where we could compare it to the books. If both characters end up being non-factors or killed in the books, then going with the villain everyone already knows and hates on the show makes sense.

Unfortunately we have no way of knowing this until the book is released and I'm not going to listen to Elio after seeing what they believe is 'controversial' from that chapter. Pfft, please. 

Think about the deafening silence after everyone slammed D&D for Sansa being raped.. then HtH rapes Sansa in the books. 

Sorry for this rant, but I need to get this out of my chest:

One of the things I can't understand about the people's reaction to the show is that they criticize things that also happened in the books, they hate D&D for not cutting those elements from the show (which is a valid point), but they don't hate of GRRM for INCLUDING THEM IN THE BOOKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I mean, I'm upset Sansa was raped, it was disgusting, I already explained why, but calling D&D mysoginist for including that scene while praising GRRM for how feminist his writing is makes zero sense. I don't understand why D&D get insulted for having Sansa raped in the show, but apparently, Jeyne Poole working against her will as a prostitute and being raped, beaten and probably forced into bestiality by Ramsay is not unnecessary and didn't make anyone abandon the books. That line of thinking makes no sense to me.

I've seen people say that it's different, that raping Sansa was unnecessary because we already knew Ramsay is a monster (which is true), but in the books it was even clearer the kind of monster he was long before he married fArya (the widow of Hornwood, Reek's mentions of what happened to him and the hunting of young girls for sport were more than enough, did we really need to add rape with forced bestiality to the list?)

Why is it that GRRM can write the most vile, despicable things in his books and people see it as a "commentary about how terrible sexual violence is" but when the show does the same is "just for shock value and because the showrunners hate women"? Putting aside the fact that the show has cut some rapes from the books (Eroeh, Pia, Lollys, the female prisoners Gregor had in Harrenhal), when has the show EVER show a rape scene in a positive light? When? Every time the show has included a rape scene, they made it pretty clear it was horrible and disgusting, not even once have they shown sexual abuse as something sexy. Never.

And regarding the Jaime/Cersei scene in the sept, I said it once, but I'll say it again, IS FAITHFUL TO THE BOOKS, the only reason is not super clear Jaime raped Cersei is because we saw it happened from his POV, switch to Cersei and I'm sure the situation would be crystal clear: she is in deep grief after losing her firstborn, Jaime arrives suddenly, goes to her, begins to kiss her, ignores her when she tells him no, ignores her when she tells him is too dangerous, ignores her when she hits him in the chest, and makes it pretty clear he won't stop, so she decides to encourage him just so he finishes quickly and she can go back to grieving for her son. It was rape, and the only reason the show made it crystal clear and the books didn't is because the show doesn't have POVs.

Is ok to be upset by the sexual violence GOT has, but then be angry about the sexual violence the books have because is more frequent and usually is more disgusting and twisted than anything the show has ever included on screen.

I am not meaning to dismiss that what happened was rape or the subsequent feelings people have from watching the scene, I just have felt this over the past few days. Whilst in our contemporary moral mindset of society rape is wrong, we must look at it from a Westerosi perspective. Yes, it is still seen as 'rape' to us, but to the people of Westeros it is not, women were the property of their husbands and thus could not be raped, which oddly and sadly enough was the stance of the England and Wales up until the case of R v R in 1991.

Despite your feelings on the matter, it was something that happened in that society and I do not think it wrong to include scenes like this, in fact I think it would be wrong to not include them just because some people might get offended. To draw a comparison - how many people get upset about the amount of violence that occurs in Westeros? That is classed as murder in today's society without a doubt - cold blooded murder. Surely the outrage should be there if we are applying our contemporary morals to Westeros?

Also on the topic of double standards, if Sansa had raped a male, perhaps in order to control him or gain something, would there be such an outcry? I suspect not, but perhaps people hailing for her perhaps manipulation of people; although some may have been upset with the typical style of writing of women using their sexuality to get what they want.