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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2015 20:20:05 GMT
The scene was a bit awkward, but I'd like to agree with what you said in your previous post. What bothers me is that talk about a record being four times. Is that supposed to be a hint that Margaery wasn't that innocent when she married Tommen? I still think Cersei gets that conversation - and a reason to frame her.I was wondering the same thing, as Margarey makes the comment and her handmaidens start laughing as Cersei is walking up. Sati, you make a good point that Tommen acts very much like a child, which is what makes the scene so jarring and uncomfortable. Plus the way Margaery is with him, she is manipulating him so clearly. I feel bad for that kid, he is nice and he is basically a pawn for everyone |
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Post by kingeomer on Apr 27, 2015 20:29:14 GMT
Plus the way Margaery is with him, she is manipulating him so clearly. I feel bad for that kid, he is nice and he is basically a pawn for everyone Oh yeah, Tommen is a definite pawn. And you do feel for him because I do think he believes that she really returns his affections and I don't think she does at all. I think she likes him and knows he will be kinder to her than Joffrey...but she also knows she can rule him and that's her goal. Where I do think book Margarey is trying to mold Tommen into a king that's not Cersei's making knowing how Joffrey turned out. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2015 20:46:32 GMT
Plus the way Margaery is with him, she is manipulating him so clearly. I feel bad for that kid, he is nice and he is basically a pawn for everyone Oh yeah, Tommen is a definite pawn. And you do feel for him because I do think he believes that she really returns his affections and I don't think she does at all. I think she likes him and knows he will be kinder to her than Joffrey...but she also knows she can rule him and that's her goal. Where I do think book Margarey is trying to mold Tommen into a king that's not Cersei's making knowing how Joffrey turned out. It's sad because nobody cares about what kind of King he will be and helping him. Tywin did more for him in one scene than these bitches in 2 seasons  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:18:50 GMT
It felt kinda wrong in a way. Reverse the genders and D&D would be stoned in the streets. The change was a bit weird and perhaps unnecessary. How will the story profit from this? Just to show how Margaery manipulates Tommen?
I'm also betting that Dean-Charles has a massive crush on Natalie at the moment. :lolgiggle:
I guess that Margaery still gets arrested this season. What are the charges, since she's not a virgin, unlike in the books(she's not one there either)?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 22:01:42 GMT
Must have been so embarrassing for Dean. He had to have had a hard on during that scene lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 0:06:36 GMT
Worst part of the episode for me. Not a fan of show Margaery at all. Natalie Dormer isn't a bad actress by any means, but I think she was miscast.
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Post by kingeomer on Apr 28, 2015 1:22:05 GMT
I guess that Margaery still gets arrested this season. What are the charges, since she's not a virgin, unlike in the books(she's not one there either)? I'll say Cersei will still have her brought up on some kind of adultery charges. They'll trot out different male extras to be Margarey's lovers and probably have her handmaidens turn on her. |
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Apr 28, 2015 6:36:02 GMT
I guess that Margaery still gets arrested this season. What are the charges, since she's not a virgin, unlike in the books(she's not one there either)? I'll say Cersei will still have her brought up on some kind of adultery charges. They'll trot out different male extras to be Margarey's lovers and probably have her handmaidens turn on her. Yeah, Anne Boleyn wasn't a virgin either, book!Marg's crime wasn't really the loss of maidenhead so much as who she's alleged to have lost it to. I'd be confused if they cut her arrest after making the prophecy solely about the younger queen, going after only Loras would hurt Marg but wouldn't break up Marg/Tommen and make her not a Queen. Really, I think my problem with Marg's characterization is that her cattiness and overconfidence with Cersei make her look a lot less clever than she used to be. Does she really think having her first consummated marriage means she has all the power she needs? I would have thought she was more savvy than that. Getting Tommen to talk to Cersei is not exactly a great plan. They're really playing a sex=power thing here, while poor Tommen actually thinks they're in love. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 6:46:43 GMT
I guess that Margaery still gets arrested this season. What are the charges, since she's not a virgin, unlike in the books(she's not one there either)? I'll say Cersei will still have her brought up on some kind of adultery charges. They'll trot out different male extras to be Margarey's lovers and probably have her handmaidens turn on her. That doesn't seem too bad. Might happen. I'll say Cersei will still have her brought up on some kind of adultery charges. They'll trot out different male extras to be Margarey's lovers and probably have her handmaidens turn on her. Yeah, Anne Boleyn wasn't a virgin either, book!Marg's crime wasn't really the loss of maidenhead so much as who she's alleged to have lost it to. I'd be confused if they cut her arrest after making the prophecy solely about the younger queen, going after only Loras would hurt Marg but wouldn't break up Marg/Tommen and make her not a Queen. Really, I think my problem with Marg's characterization is that her cattiness and overconfidence with Cersei make her look a lot less clever than she used to be. Does she really think having her first consummated marriage means she has all the power she needs? I would have thought she was more savvy than that. Getting Tommen to talk to Cersei is not exactly a great plan. They're really playing a sex=power thing here, while poor Tommen actually thinks they're in love. This is true. Mocking Cersei right in front of her can still be kinda dangerous. Yeah, banging Tommen doesn't automatically mean that you're the most powerful person in the realm. |
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on Apr 28, 2015 9:48:49 GMT
I'm not offended or disturbed by Margaery and Tommen having sex. I just don't really care about it at all because it's added plot without improving the story. Having Tommen be 10 and offscreen would be the same as having older, oblivious, naive Tommen onscreen, because his role in the story isn't changing. Whether he's there and not ruling or 10 years old... it doesn't matter, at least so far, but screentime is going towards it. They could have had Manderly for all the time they've spent on Tommen.
The Tommen/Margaery stuff also messes with the Valonqar prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down - she's taken all of Cersei's power away by making Tommen "come of age," which apparently in the show is not about turning a certain age to be old enough to rule, it's about figuring out for the first time how to bump the slinky around the sleeping bag until it slips inside. But even with Tommen being king, he doesn't show up on the small council.
It's a screwy narrative. King's Landing this season is like having high performance sportscars race on an offroad dirt bike course. It's just weird. Thing's don't really fit.
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2015 10:18:26 GMT
I'm not offended or disturbed by Margaery and Tommen having sex. I just don't really care about it at all because it's added plot without improving the story. Having Tommen be 10 and offscreen would be the same as having older, oblivious, naive Tommen onscreen, because his role in the story isn't changing. Whether he's there and not ruling or 10 years old... it doesn't matter, at least so far, but screentime is going towards it. They could have had Manderly for all the time they've spent on Tommen. The Tommen/Margaery stuff also messes with the Valonqar prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down - she's taken all of Cersei's power away by making Tommen "come of age," which apparently in the show is not about turning a certain age to be old enough to rule, it's about figuring out for the first time how to bump the slinky around the sleeping bag until it slips inside. But even with Tommen being king, he doesn't show up on the small council. It's a screwy narrative. King's Landing this season is like having high performance sportscars race on an offroad dirt bike course. It's just weird. Thing's don't really fit.   |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 10:35:25 GMT
Must have been so embarrassing for Dean. He had to have had a hard on during that scene lol. Omg |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on Apr 29, 2015 3:28:40 GMT
I'm not offended or disturbed by Margaery and Tommen having sex. I just don't really care about it at all because it's added plot without improving the story. Having Tommen be 10 and offscreen would be the same as having older, oblivious, naive Tommen onscreen, because his role in the story isn't changing. Whether he's there and not ruling or 10 years old... it doesn't matter, at least so far, but screentime is going towards it. They could have had Manderly for all the time they've spent on Tommen. The Tommen/Margaery stuff also messes with the Valonqar prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down - she's taken all of Cersei's power away by making Tommen "come of age," which apparently in the show is not about turning a certain age to be old enough to rule, it's about figuring out for the first time how to bump the slinky around the sleeping bag until it slips inside. But even with Tommen being king, he doesn't show up on the small council. It's a screwy narrative. King's Landing this season is like having high performance sportscars race on an offroad dirt bike course. It's just weird. Thing's don't really fit. Sorry to go off topic. But how do you attach pictures to your posts? Iheartseverus already explained to me, but, you know, I am King Patchface now. I may look like Olenna but I have a hard time learning things, I know, oh, oh |
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Post by goodguygarlan on Apr 29, 2015 3:35:45 GMT
Totally agree with Sati, not so much because Tommen acts like a boy and stuff, I'm kinda over it.
But it's really repetitive and cheap to have yet again another female character manipulating a male character through sex, especially because in this case there was no sex in the books and that made it refreshing or original or whatever.
But no, everything is about sex with D&D. Wait and see how Sansa uses sex to manipulate Ramsay.
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Post by King Tommen on Apr 29, 2015 4:10:10 GMT
Totally agree with Sati, not so much because Tommen acts like a boy and stuff, I'm kinda over it. But it's really repetitive and cheap to have yet again another female character manipulating a male character through sex, especially because in this case there was no sex in the books and that made it refreshing or original or whatever. But no, everything is about sex with D&D. Wait and see how Sansa uses sex to manipulate Ramsay. I'm confused because I thought lots of people were upset because Cersei wasn't using sex to manipulate people like she does in the books. You've also got Arianne seducing Arys, Dany become adept at sex in order to get Drogo to do things for her, Shae getting what she wants from Tyrion through sex, Melisandre using sex always, etc etc. I think Martin has a very clear theme of women in Westeros using sex as a tool just as much as the show does. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 29, 2015 4:12:24 GMT
Sorry to go off topic. But how do you attach pictures to your posts? Iheartseverus already explained to me, but, you know, I am King Patchface now. I may look like Olenna but I have a hard time learning things, I know, oh, oh You need to click the image icon, third one in last row next to 'link' and 'email' and add a link to the photo on the web, ending with one of the image extensions like .jpg or .png or .gif etc. Totally agree with Sati, not so much because Tommen acts like a boy and stuff, I'm kinda over it. But it's really repetitive and cheap to have yet again another female character manipulating a male character through sex, especially because in this case there was no sex in the books and that made it refreshing or original or whatever. But no, everything is about sex with D&D. Wait and see how Sansa uses sex to manipulate Ramsay. Exactly :/ and they were doing so well with that scene with the cat last season, the extent of her being in his bedroom should end there |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 4:16:00 GMT
Exactly :/ and they were doing so well with that scene with the cat last season, the extent of her being in his bedroom should end there Except, I have a sneaky suspicion that Margaery's non-virgin status is going to be important to giving show audience better understanding of her arrest by the faith - otherwise, what has she done wrong? A hand-maiden or even Tommen himself will confirm there was no blood on their wedding night, thus Margaery was not a virgin. In the book there was a lot of behind the scenes talk, and the reveal that Margaery had gotten "Moon tea" at some point if I recall correctly? There's been absolutely nothing in the show to indicate Margaery has done anything wrong so what charges would the faith arrest her on unless they did a sex scene with her and Tommen from which they now have evidence to use against her. |
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Post by goodguygarlan on Apr 29, 2015 4:23:46 GMT
Totally agree with Sati, not so much because Tommen acts like a boy and stuff, I'm kinda over it. But it's really repetitive and cheap to have yet again another female character manipulating a male character through sex, especially because in this case there was no sex in the books and that made it refreshing or original or whatever. But no, everything is about sex with D&D. Wait and see how Sansa uses sex to manipulate Ramsay. I'm confused because I thought lots of people were upset because Cersei wasn't using sex to manipulate people like she does in the books. You've also got Arianne seducing Arys, Dany become adept at sex in order to get Drogo to do things for her, Shae getting what she wants from Tyrion through sex, Melisandre using sex always, etc etc. I think Martin has a very clear theme of women in Westeros using sex as a tool just as much as the show does. Sure, GRRM is all about the sexing too. But D&D took one of the few instances in the books where a female manipulated a male through something other than sex and they went and sexualized it. But I guess they desexualized Cersei in a way, so they're sort of even *shrugs* |
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Post by King Tommen on Apr 29, 2015 4:59:58 GMT
I'm confused because I thought lots of people were upset because Cersei wasn't using sex to manipulate people like she does in the books. You've also got Arianne seducing Arys, Dany become adept at sex in order to get Drogo to do things for her, Shae getting what she wants from Tyrion through sex, Melisandre using sex always, etc etc. I think Martin has a very clear theme of women in Westeros using sex as a tool just as much as the show does. Sure, GRRM is all about the sexing too. But D&D took one of the few instances in the books where a female manipulated a male through something other than sex and they went and sexualized it. But I guess they desexualized Cersei in a way, so they're sort of even *shrugs* I think the aging up of Tommen pretty much sets you on that path. In ASOIAF terms, a boy of his age should be consummating his marriage. They've also made Margaery far more overtly sexual and cunning from her introduction in S2 so it would be weird if she didn't continue with this characterization. Personally, I think the decision to age up Tommen stems from the fact that since Margaery (and basically every child from the books) has been aged up and is played by Dormer, the plot point where she needs to marry Tommen would have become infinitely harder for the audience to swallow if it was to a kid that was under 10 years old. And once you've made that decision and converted Tommen to a teenager, then the consummation has to happen, there's no reason for it not to. |
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Post by goodguygarlan on Apr 29, 2015 5:17:24 GMT
Sure, GRRM is all about the sexing too. But D&D took one of the few instances in the books where a female manipulated a male through something other than sex and they went and sexualized it. But I guess they desexualized Cersei in a way, so they're sort of even *shrugs* I think the aging up of Tommen pretty much sets you on that path. In ASOIAF terms, a boy of his age should be consummating his marriage. They've also made Margaery far more overtly sexual and cunning from her introduction in S2 so it would be weird if she didn't continue with this characterization. Personally, I think the decision to age up Tommen stems from the fact that since Margaery (and basically every child from the books) has been aged up and is played by Dormer, the plot point where she needs to marry Tommen would have become infinitely harder for the audience to swallow if it was to a kid that was under 10 years old. And once you've made that decision and converted Tommen to a teenager, then the consummation has to happen, there's no reason for it not to. You're right, but...here's the thing: even if Tommen is older in the show, and even if he enjoys having sex with Marg, sex doesn't have to be the only way in which Marg manipulates him. In the books, she gives him kittens, takes him to mingle with the smallfolk of the city, encourages his training with sword and lance, talks him into getting actively involved in the ruling of the realm, etc. In the show, so far, is just sex. Well, sex and the idea that having Cersei around may lead to less sex. Sure, the season is not over and we might get to see these other forms of manipulation, but I don't know. |
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