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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2015 8:39:49 GMT
For me by far the most disturbing part of the episode was not the whole Sansa thing or Septon's ass but the sex scene with Tommen and Margaery.  Tommen looks and acts like a child - so that's problem 1. Problem 2 is that it is yet another narrative shortcut of unskilled writers - they want to show Margaery controlling Tommen and having influence over him and the only way they think will be effective is her seducing him. It's so cheap. They could have shown them playing with Tommen cats or playing a game or something, but no, they had to resort to sex. What are your thoughts on this? |
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Post by Nezzer on Apr 27, 2015 9:50:09 GMT
I don't know, if I were in his place with his age I'd probably behave the same way and be as easily manipulated. He's supposed to be around 14, right? That age is the apex of the hormones. Teenage girls usually dream about romance, but boys mostly just want to get laid. It's still creepy to see it on the tellie, though. She really looks twice his age.
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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2015 9:53:31 GMT
Oh I'm sure Tommen wasn't distressed  But it was distressing to watch. It's disappointing that they can't show Margaery wining his favor with her wit and have to go the cheap route. Dormer looks really tired too so for me she looked 40 in that scene  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 10:01:46 GMT
She really looks twice his age. Well, she pretty much his twice his age lol. He is 17 and she is 33. |
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Post by Nezzer on Apr 27, 2015 10:04:38 GMT
Oh I'm sure Tommen wasn't distressed But it was distressing to watch. It's disappointing that they can't show Margaery wining his favor with her wit and have to go the cheap route. Dormer looks really tired too so for me she looked 40 in that scene Yeah, she looks a bit older now, but she still looks younger than many 25 year old girls I know. I can never guess the age of someone between 25 and 35 anymore. Some people have a permanent baby face while others look ancient. |
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Post by kingeomer on Apr 27, 2015 10:42:14 GMT
Sati, I have to agree with you. While I do find what's probably coming up for Sansa to be revolting (if it's not posted here there is interview going around with Bryan Cogman that addresses the Sansa storyline)...Margarey and Tommen last night was a low light for me. I am sorry, while Natalie is youthful looking and absolutely beautiful, it was jarring to see her character in bed with the young Tommen. I can't see how people wouldn't be complaining if the genders were switched.
The scene made it painfully obvious that Margarey is definitely manipulating Tommen and doing so through sex. Granted Tommen is much younger in the books and Margarey was actually trying to make Tommen into a good king, attempting to undo some of Cersei's ideas in his head and having him attempt to take a more active role in the realm.
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on Apr 27, 2015 13:05:41 GMT
She really looks twice his age. Well, she pretty much his twice his age lol. He is 17 and she is 33. It gets more disturbing if you reverse the genders. Yeah. 33 year old Tommen banging 17 year old Margaery would piss everyone - just as the actual situation should... But for some reason, it doesn't. And I don't think D&D see anything wrong in that |
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King Tyrion I
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Post by King Tyrion I on Apr 27, 2015 13:11:31 GMT
Oh I'm sure Tommen wasn't distressed But it was distressing to watch. It's disappointing that they can't show Margaery wining his favor with her wit and have to go the cheap route. Dormer looks really tired too so for me she looked 40 in that scene Yeah, she looks a bit older now, but she still looks younger than many 25 year old girls I know. I can never guess the age of someone between 25 and 35 anymore. Some people have a permanent baby face while others look ancient. You'd have a hard time guessing my age. I'm the same age as Lena, Pedro turned 40 this year, and I look way younger than him. Most people who I meet and who don't know my real age guess my ages as 25. Sometimes even younger. The scene was a bit awkward, but I'd like to agree with what you said in your previous post. What bothers me is that talk about a record being four times. Is that supposed to be a hint that Margaery wasn't that innocent when she married Tommen? I still think Cersei gets that conversation - and a reason to frame her. |
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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2015 13:14:32 GMT
Well I'm 25 and I'd love to have a sex scene with 33 years older than me Stephen...but then again it's me and we are both adults The worst part here and what is disturbing me is that Tommen acts and very much is a child. It was jarring seeing that sex scene and him even interested in her in this way when we saw no indication of it in previous seasons. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 14:41:01 GMT
The scene was light hearted and very well done. Kudos to D&D they nailed it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 14:51:41 GMT
Only thing that bothered me was Tommen. Do they expect me to think that he would want to bang the fuck out of Margaery and still behave like 8-year old version of the books?
They should have done either the book version or the older show version. Tommen can't have traits of both.
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Post by day dreamer on Apr 27, 2015 15:38:09 GMT
:projectilevomit:indeed.
I'm not crazy about it, though I'm sure they did it for the added comic relief. Someone has to be funny in KL now that Tyrion, Bronn, and Varys are out of there.
I preferred book Marg giving him kittens. lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 15:58:38 GMT
I don't know, maybe some of you are forgetting what it's like to be 14 (and a raging hormone boy)? I think he acted pretty much the way any 14 year old boy who just found himself the king and married to a hot older chick would act. Also, we know Natalie is older, but Margaery isn't that old in the book and she can pull it off with a youthful face.
I think some of you are confusing real life with the expected age and also the ages of the kids in the books. All three of those things are mashed up into a weird soup - I agree!
Also, I'm pretty sure it was supposed to feel awkward and sappy - that was the intent when they wrote it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 17:17:02 GMT
I don't know, maybe some of you are forgetting what it's like to be 14 (and a raging hormone boy)? I think he acted pretty much the way any 14 year old boy who just found himself the king and married to a hot older chick would act. Also, we know Natalie is older, but Margaery isn't that old in the book and she can pull it off with a youthful face. I think some of you are confusing real life with the expected age and also the ages of the kids in the books. All three of those things are mashed up into a weird soup - I agree! Also, I'm pretty sure it was supposed to feel awkward and sappy - that was the intent when they wrote it. Aye. |
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Apr 27, 2015 17:46:41 GMT
The worst part here and what is disturbing me is that Tommen acts and very much is a child. It was jarring seeing that sex scene and him even interested in her in this way when we saw no indication of it in previous seasons. Yeah, and their first scene definitely made him look very childlike, and that s4 ep should only be a matter of weeks past since Cersei and Tywin kept talking of Tyrion's trial and the Tyrell marriages in terms of fortnights. I can't see him as any older than maybe 14, and it's not so much that he's being sexually abused if they're expected to consummate the marriage, but Marg is clearly not just doing her duty but using it as a way to take advantage and manipulate her child groom. |
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Post by Quoth on Apr 27, 2015 17:51:27 GMT
Any time I can see Natalie sans clothing, I'm very happy to do so. But, yeah that scene was cringe worthy. I guess it was the shortest way to portray Marg's manipulation of Tommen. Still, they could've gone a much better way. And the "girl talk" afterwards... "4 times" and "What's the record?" just compounded it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 17:53:16 GMT
The worst part here and what is disturbing me is that Tommen acts and very much is a child. It was jarring seeing that sex scene and him even interested in her in this way when we saw no indication of it in previous seasons. Yeah, and their first scene definitely made him look very childlike, and that s4 ep should only be a matter of weeks past since Cersei and Tywin kept talking of Tyrion's trial and the Tyrell marriages in terms of fortnights. I can't see him as any older than maybe 14, and it's not so much that he's being sexually abused if they're expected to consummate the marriage, but Marg is clearly not just doing her duty but using it as a way to take advantage and manipulate her child groom. Question about that last line you wrote: Do you think Margaery in the books was a very manipulative woman (learnt at her Grandma's knee) or wasn't that complex? I've often wondered how others read her personality in the books compared to the much more manipulative and cunning version they've painted in the show. Personally I love the way show Margaery acts and I felt Natalie Dormer was a perfect match for the role because she has that naturally 'smirky' look about her that just begs for manipulative/cunning roles. Even Cersei says "and our only remaining son is set to marry that "smirking bitch" so it's spot on! I don't think Margaery gives one fig about her 'duty' and it's obvious she's got no moral issues with sexual deviance as she plops herself on the edge of the bed with her naked brother and his prostitute lover (ugh, poor Loras painted so badly in the show). Her willingness to go to bed with a 14 year old boy is just another example of her willingness to do just about anything for power. |
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Apr 27, 2015 19:17:46 GMT
Yeah, and their first scene definitely made him look very childlike, and that s4 ep should only be a matter of weeks past since Cersei and Tywin kept talking of Tyrion's trial and the Tyrell marriages in terms of fortnights. I can't see him as any older than maybe 14, and it's not so much that he's being sexually abused if they're expected to consummate the marriage, but Marg is clearly not just doing her duty but using it as a way to take advantage and manipulate her child groom. Question about that last line you wrote: Do you think Margaery in the books was a very manipulative woman (learnt at her Grandma's knee) or wasn't that complex? I've often wondered how others read her personality in the books compared to the much more manipulative and cunning version they've painted in the show. Personally I love the way show Margaery acts and I felt Natalie Dormer was a perfect match for the role because she has that naturally 'smirky' look about her that just begs for manipulative/cunning roles. Even Cersei says "and our only remaining son is set to marry that "smirking bitch" so it's spot on! I don't think Margaery gives one fig about her 'duty' and it's obvious she's got no moral issues with sexual deviance as she plops herself on the edge of the bed with her naked brother and his prostitute lover (ugh, poor Loras painted so badly in the show). Her willingness to go to bed with a 14 year old boy is just another example of her willingness to do just about anything for power. I think book!Marg had to be involved in the PW plot not to get poisoned herself (they were drinking from the same chalice), so definitely not innocent. She probably would have liked to push Cersei out but 9yo Tommen can't really send his mother away, so the Tyrells just try to influence him to be on their side as much as possible. There's a couple of scenes of her with Sansa or Cersei in the books where I get the feeling Marg knows more than she's letting on to them. On the commentary for his s3 ep, GRRM says Dormer's Margaery is what his would be in a few years or something. Yeah, and in her first marriage she wanted to bring Loras in the room as a fluffer, so really no sexual qualms from the start. I think the marriage to Renly is probably why they aged her up, so she could be shown as an equal partner, a 15yo having to be the beard for her brother's older lover would be more awkward. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 19:33:55 GMT
Given Tommen's age-up, they kind of had to go that route. However old he's supposed to be, he's old enough that he'd be expected to consummate that marriage in Westeros. Maybe it is the result of some sort of social double standard and makes me a hypocrite to some degree but, as a guy, I didn't feel bad for him in the slightest. And I'm not even all that attracted to Natalie Dormer tbh. *ducks shoe* Still he seemed to enjoy himself and she made the best of a mismatched marriage (as she would've with her past two ones), so I'm not one to complain here. Yes, it was screwed up, but really it was tame compared to much of the rest of this show. |
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Post by kingeomer on Apr 27, 2015 20:06:12 GMT
Yeah, she looks a bit older now, but she still looks younger than many 25 year old girls I know. I can never guess the age of someone between 25 and 35 anymore. Some people have a permanent baby face while others look ancient. The scene was a bit awkward, but I'd like to agree with what you said in your previous post. What bothers me is that talk about a record being four times. Is that supposed to be a hint that Margaery wasn't that innocent when she married Tommen? I still think Cersei gets that conversation - and a reason to frame her.I was wondering the same thing, as Margarey makes the comment and her handmaidens start laughing as Cersei is walking up. Sati, you make a good point that Tommen acts very much like a child, which is what makes the scene so jarring and uncomfortable. |
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But it was distressing to watch. It's disappointing that they can't show Margaery wining his favor with her wit and have to go the cheap route.
