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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 4, 2015 3:53:46 GMT
That fight at the end felt very weird. They should have had the door slam closed behind them when they entered the hallway, knowing there was no escape, then holes in the walls could open up and feather them with arrows. The Unsullied charge at the Harpies and cut them down, but more arrows keep coming and they go down. Finally, Barristan enters from the side door.
The Unsullied trained day and night to fight for years and years, and all it took to take them down were unarmored dudes with knives who probably had barely any combat training at all. They should have opened up the plausibility factor of that scene.
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valyrianshadow
Snark 
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
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Post by valyrianshadow on May 4, 2015 4:16:16 GMT
^^ agreed! The whole time me and my unsullied friend were like uhh what? She thought it was very dumb. They were in a small alley they could have Spartan'd it and won. But no 2 out of 8 Unsullied died in the first 2 seconds. Seemed sloppy. If the whole point was to kill Barristan they could have thought of a better way, like in the fighting pit or something.
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Post by King Tommen on May 4, 2015 4:16:38 GMT
I think that the ambush made more logistical sense when you see where the Harpies chose to lure the Unsullied into. It was extremely claustrophobic close quarters where the Unsullied were flanked from both sides. Their weapons of choice are longspears which are not ideal for that kind of environment, you don't get the kind of leverage you would on an open battlefield. Lunging in with small blades is far more effective and I think that was what supposed to be the idea behind why the Unsullied were at such a disadvantage (besides being severely outnumbered).
Barristan took down at least 7-8 guys easy before they overwhelmed him, that's incredibly heroic. The books never (and I doubt will ever) have him face down those kinds of odds. It's easy to take down 1 person in single combat but you're never going to win that kind of numbers game, no matter how good a swordsman you are. I think people often forget that part of Selmy's appeal is about what he has done in the past as opposed to what he is capable now. He's supposed to be what, 70? He's still got skills but he's not nearly the man he used to be which is made clear in the books and the show.
Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 4:19:24 GMT
Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes. Plot twist. She's Jhiqui, Dany's lost handmaiden, and wants revenge for not getting screen time. |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 4, 2015 4:22:52 GMT
Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes. Plot twist. She's Jhiqui, Dany's lost handmaiden, and wants revenge for not getting screen time.  that's a good one ... Then you remember what happened to Doreah, and realized that might make sense  |
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Post by King Tommen on May 4, 2015 4:33:37 GMT
Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes. Plot twist. She's Jhiqui, Dany's lost handmaiden, and wants revenge for not getting screen time. Better plot twist: It's Jhiqui but she and Irri were secret lesbian lovers and she's irate that Dany got sex lessons from Doreah instead of seasoned pros like her and Irri. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 5:06:43 GMT
 Was this scene cut? |
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Post by King Tommen on May 4, 2015 5:17:45 GMT
Yes, you could see when Ellaria rides in that Nym and Tyene are at the end of whatever conversation this was. It was in a leaked script last year, I don't think it was a particularly memorable exchange.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 5:19:41 GMT
Was this the most action packed non episode 9 besides Blackwater? Certainly felt like it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 5:32:46 GMT
Was this scene cut? Yes. Nym and Tyene were practising and Obara then says, "Admit defeat Tyene, Nym's mother taught her how to use a whip before the knife and fork."
That's paraphrased but that was the only line from the Obara audition IIRC that wasn't in the scene. So they only cut like thirty seconds tops from the scene but I guess those thirty seconds would've done more to establish what Tyene and Nym are like.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 6:48:13 GMT
The ending scene made me sad, I kind of wish I went in without knowing what would happen though. That was definitely Barry in the trailer for 505, and I think Grey Worm will make it at least for a little while. Hizzy is definitely the leader of the Sons of the Harpy for the show. Littlefinger's reaction to Sansa talking about Rhaegar kidnapping and raping Lyanna is indicator to me that he knows the truth about it, watch him be the one who reveals R+L=J lol. The Stannis/Shireen scene was so cute. I also had no problem with the Sandsnakes' scene, I didn't really think it was cheesy. I hope people hold off on judging them for now, we've only seen them for like 5 minutes and Obara was the only one with substantial dialogue. Nice summary and I agree with all your points except I'm more ambivalent about the sandsnakes. I didn't find it too cheesy but I also am not a huge fan of their acting so far. But like you said, people need to hold off on the harsh criticisms. Lets give them a few more episodes to figure out their roles - they're all very young and new and none of their roles are major so of course the show's not casting top line actors for those roles like they did for Oberyn and others. It's so bad over on westeros.org forum I've decided I will not post there this week. I just can't take it! People are SO MEAN. It's fine to have some criticisms or even dismay about changes to the story you didn't like but the level to which some people there are taking it is distasteful and almost disturbing how fanatically weird a few people are about criticizing the actors in real life. It borders on harassment/bullying in some weird way. Aaanyways, I thought this episode was the best of the four 'leaked' and I'm so happy we're finally caught up. I've carefully re-watched each week when it aired on HBO and caught so many things I missed by watching the crappy quality leaks. I'm only a tinge regretful I went ahead and accessed the leaked material. I pay for HBO so it's not a monetary guilt thing like it would be for let's say downloaded pirated music and whatnot - maybe just a tad sad I already knew all the major twists and turns and surprises. It's been so hard not to spoil all the time getting confused what scenes were in which episodes! |
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Post by Nezzer on May 4, 2015 8:17:53 GMT
Was this scene cut? Yes. Nym and Tyene were practising and Obara then says, "Admit defeat Tyene, Nym's mother taught her how to use a whip before the knife and fork."
That's paraphrased but that was the only line from the Obara audition IIRC that wasn't in the scene. So they only cut like thirty seconds tops from the scene but I guess those thirty seconds would've done more to establish what Tyene and Nym are like.
I don't know, it might have made the scene even worse  |
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 4, 2015 8:51:59 GMT
I think that the ambush made more logistical sense when you see where the Harpies chose to lure the Unsullied into. It was extremely claustrophobic close quarters where the Unsullied were flanked from both sides. Their weapons of choice are longspears which are not ideal for that kind of environment, you don't get the kind of leverage you would on an open battlefield. Lunging in with small blades is far more effective and I think that was what supposed to be the idea behind why the Unsullied were at such a disadvantage (besides being severely outnumbered). Barristan took down at least 7-8 guys easy before they overwhelmed him, that's incredibly heroic. The books never (and I doubt will ever) have him face down those kinds of odds. It's easy to take down 1 person in single combat but you're never going to win that kind of numbers game, no matter how good a swordsman you are. I think people often forget that part of Selmy's appeal is about what he has done in the past as opposed to what he is capable now. He's supposed to be what, 70? He's still got skills but he's not nearly the man he used to be which is made clear in the books and the show. Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes. Missandei mentions back in S3 they train with the shortsword as well. It's something like "the shortsword, the shield, and the three spears." They should have been equipped with shortswords for close-quarters city fighting to begin with. I'm not sure if any were hanging on the walls in the 5.01 Missandei/Grey Worm scene or not. The evil brothel worker wears green, which raises eyebrows. It was pointed out by others to me in the leaked thread, which should be fair game for you guys to peruse now. With regards to the Sandsnakes, I really didn't think it was that bad. The cinematography in that scene though was just - fairly bad, but there wasn't much they could do simply being underneath a tent. The moment where Obara and Nym's heads just kind of pop into the frame its like "wweeeeee're here! look at us!" The blocking was awkward with Obara suddenly breaking out into stride to give exposition, and the dialogue overall was janky. Nym was introduced with only one line. I recall us reading that scene way back in the Fall and wondering how any of that was supposed to flow together. Here's the original script: ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/88700099.htmlIt wasn't as terrible as people make it out to be, but was it a good introduction to these characters? Not really. I kind of understand what Obara's angle is with her exposition. Tyene just kind of blindly follows her mom, but she really has no characterization. Nym is just kind of there. I know they're pressed for time, but introduce one of them at a time: Obara - training with her spear in a small peublo arena. She talks about Oberyn telling her to pick the spear or her mother's tears. Tyene - weening snakes of their venom in the desert. She talks of how Oberyn taught her how to make poison. Nym - Sexposition! She's abed with the Fowler twins. Oberyn taught her how to grieve by taking in the pleasures of life. Each one agrees to join their party and seek out vengeance, with their own unique stories. In this it's just kind of... hey. They're all there under a hut. I have no idea what 2/3 of them are about. It's not so much that they're B-Movie Bad Girls because of anything about them, it's that they didn't have time to breathe individually at all. There's still time to see them come alive, it's just not a strong introduction. If I go the entire season and not learn about what makes Nym, Nym or Tyene, Tyene, well... "You may have a 'problem." |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 4, 2015 9:48:50 GMT
I think that the ambush made more logistical sense when you see where the Harpies chose to lure the Unsullied into. It was extremely claustrophobic close quarters where the Unsullied were flanked from both sides. Their weapons of choice are longspears which are not ideal for that kind of environment, you don't get the kind of leverage you would on an open battlefield. Lunging in with small blades is far more effective and I think that was what supposed to be the idea behind why the Unsullied were at such a disadvantage (besides being severely outnumbered). Barristan took down at least 7-8 guys easy before they overwhelmed him, that's incredibly heroic. The books never (and I doubt will ever) have him face down those kinds of odds. It's easy to take down 1 person in single combat but you're never going to win that kind of numbers game, no matter how good a swordsman you are. I think people often forget that part of Selmy's appeal is about what he has done in the past as opposed to what he is capable now. He's supposed to be what, 70? He's still got skills but he's not nearly the man he used to be which is made clear in the books and the show. Finally, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the evil brothel worker who is helping the Harpies. She pointed the Unsullied into the ambush (and then gave a menacing look aftewards) and was distracting both the Second Sons who get murdered in this episode as well as the Unsullied who gets his throat slit in the premiere. I wonder if she still has a part to play this season, they've certainly made her presence and allegiance known in both these episodes. Missandei mentions back in S3 they train with the shortsword as well. It's something like "the shortsword, the shield, and the three spears." They should have been equipped with shortswords for close-quarters city fighting to begin with. I'm not sure if any were hanging on the walls in the 5.01 Missandei/Grey Worm scene or not. The evil brothel worker wears green, which raises eyebrows. It was pointed out by others to me in the leaked thread, which should be fair game for you guys to peruse now. With regards to the Sandsnakes, I really didn't think it was that bad. The cinematography in that scene though was just - fairly bad, but there wasn't much they could do simply being underneath a tent. The moment where Obara and Nym's heads just kind of pop into the frame its like "wweeeeee're here! look at us!" The blocking was awkward with Obara suddenly breaking out into stride to give exposition, and the dialogue overall was janky. Nym was introduced with only one line. I recall us reading that scene way back in the Fall and wondering how any of that was supposed to flow together. Here's the original script: ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/88700099.htmlIt wasn't as terrible as people make it out to be, but was it a good introduction to these characters? Not really. I kind of understand what Obara's angle is with her exposition. Tyene just kind of blindly follows her mom, but she really has no characterization. Nym is just kind of there. I know they're pressed for time, but introduce one of them at a time: Obara - training with her spear in a small peublo arena. She talks about Oberyn telling her to pick the spear or her mother's tears. Tyene - weening snakes of their venom in the desert. She talks of how Oberyn taught her how to make poison. Nym - Sexposition! She's abed with the Fowler twins. Oberyn taught her how to grieve by taking in the pleasures of life. Each one agrees to join their party and seek out vengeance, with their own unique stories. In this it's just kind of... hey. They're all there under a hut. I have no idea what 2/3 of them are about. It's not so much that they're B-Movie Bad Girls because of anything about them, it's that they didn't have time to breathe individually at all. There's still time to see them come alive, it's just not a strong introduction. If I go the entire season and not learn about what makes Nym, Nym or Tyene, Tyene, well... "You may have a 'problem." I agree with you. A lot of the critics to the Sand Snakes come from people (like me) who would've liked to see Arianne on the show, but in reality, they're not as bad as some say. On the other hand, their scene is not nearly on the same level of quality that this show usually is. If you go back a few seasons, the show has been spectacular in introducing and developing characters, even when its way diverges from the books' (I'm thinking about Tywin, Walder, Melisandre, Mance, Olenna, Margaery, Brienne...). I mean, if you watch Cersei with the High Sparrow, or Stannis with Selyse and Melisandre, and then jump to Ellaria and the Sand Snakes... It doesn't even seem like the same show. It's not that bad on itself, but it doesn't compare to the rest of it. I think the same applies to the homophobic sparrows at the brothel. I can't bite that they killed some gay nobles on the minute 1 of their newborn army. It feels very simple and cheesy compared to the show itself. Those were my problems with those two scenes. But still, I think we have to give more time to the Sand Snakes. They may be given more depth, specially if, as some speculate, they play a big role on the next season. |
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Post by Nezzer on May 4, 2015 9:58:28 GMT
Missandei mentions back in S3 they train with the shortsword as well. It's something like "the shortsword, the shield, and the three spears." They should have been equipped with shortswords for close-quarters city fighting to begin with. I'm not sure if any were hanging on the walls in the 5.01 Missandei/Grey Worm scene or not. The evil brothel worker wears green, which raises eyebrows. It was pointed out by others to me in the leaked thread, which should be fair game for you guys to peruse now. With regards to the Sandsnakes, I really didn't think it was that bad. The cinematography in that scene though was just - fairly bad, but there wasn't much they could do simply being underneath a tent. The moment where Obara and Nym's heads just kind of pop into the frame its like "wweeeeee're here! look at us!" The blocking was awkward with Obara suddenly breaking out into stride to give exposition, and the dialogue overall was janky. Nym was introduced with only one line. I recall us reading that scene way back in the Fall and wondering how any of that was supposed to flow together. Here's the original script: ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/88700099.htmlIt wasn't as terrible as people make it out to be, but was it a good introduction to these characters? Not really. I kind of understand what Obara's angle is with her exposition. Tyene just kind of blindly follows her mom, but she really has no characterization. Nym is just kind of there. I know they're pressed for time, but introduce one of them at a time: Obara - training with her spear in a small peublo arena. She talks about Oberyn telling her to pick the spear or her mother's tears. Tyene - weening snakes of their venom in the desert. She talks of how Oberyn taught her how to make poison. Nym - Sexposition! She's abed with the Fowler twins. Oberyn taught her how to grieve by taking in the pleasures of life. Each one agrees to join their party and seek out vengeance, with their own unique stories. In this it's just kind of... hey. They're all there under a hut. I have no idea what 2/3 of them are about. It's not so much that they're B-Movie Bad Girls because of anything about them, it's that they didn't have time to breathe individually at all. There's still time to see them come alive, it's just not a strong introduction. If I go the entire season and not learn about what makes Nym, Nym or Tyene, Tyene, well... "You may have a 'problem." I agree with you. A lot of the critics to the Sand Snakes come from people (like me) who would've liked to see Arianne on the show, but in reality, they're not as bad as some say. On the other hand, their scene is not nearly on the same level of quality that this show usually is. If you go back a few seasons, the show has been spectacular in introducing and developing characters, even when its way diverges from the books' (I'm thinking about Tywin, Walder, Melisandre, Mance, Olenna, Margaery, Brienne...). I mean, if you watch Cersei with the High Sparrow, or Stannis with Selyse and Melisandre, and then jump to Ellaria and the Sand Snakes... It doesn't even seem like the same show. It's not that bad on itself, but it doesn't compare to the rest of it. I think the same applies to the homophobic sparrows at the brothel. I can't bite that they killed some gay nobles on the minute 1 of their newborn army. It feels very simple and cheesy compared to the show itself. Those were my problems with those two scenes. But still, I think we have to give more time to the Sand Snakes. They may be given more depth, specially if, as some speculate, they play a big role on the next season. Yeah, that's why I hated it. It wasn't bad per se, but very below the standards of this show. If I saw it in Starz's Spartacus I would've liked it, and I loved that show, but it didn't feel like GoT. |
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Post by boojam on May 4, 2015 10:21:49 GMT
So before Barristan got stabbed, what did he do to the Harpy on his left? The edit looked really weird. I agree. Didn't understand that fight very well. Ser Grandpa had a beautiful death, with all that "sing for me" conversation with Daenerys, but still... he deserved better. He could have won at least one fight on the show. Even if he dies early in book 6, we saw him fighting that fighting pit champion on Hizdahr's room. We know he is a badass. But the show had him murdered by random goons  I'm not saying the show should follow the books, it's just that Barry has been set up as this badass guy all along, and now I think he could've just been cut from the show. So far in book 6 from the excepts Selmy is directing the battle to break the siege of Meereen. Grey Worm is leading an arm of the army. So both are play a roll in the start of Winds not clear they will be killed in the battle. |
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Post by boojam on May 4, 2015 10:28:16 GMT
konradsmith.
There is a scene on some stairs of Dany, Barriston, Grey Worm and a bunch of Unsullied , now seems that was from E2 but must have been cut? Seemed from some other event in the season.
I can't find the pic.
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 4, 2015 10:45:36 GMT
I agree. Didn't understand that fight very well. Ser Grandpa had a beautiful death, with all that "sing for me" conversation with Daenerys, but still... he deserved better. He could have won at least one fight on the show. Even if he dies early in book 6, we saw him fighting that fighting pit champion on Hizdahr's room. We know he is a badass. But the show had him murdered by random goons I'm not saying the show should follow the books, it's just that Barry has been set up as this badass guy all along, and now I think he could've just been cut from the show. So far in book 6 from the excepts Selmy is directing the battle to break the siege of Meereen. Grey Worm is leading an arm of the army. So both are play a roll in the start of Winds not clear they will be killed in the battle. Sorry, I didn't understand what you said... You mean that they might not have been killed? |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 4, 2015 10:46:27 GMT
I agree with you. A lot of the critics to the Sand Snakes come from people (like me) who would've liked to see Arianne on the show, but in reality, they're not as bad as some say. On the other hand, their scene is not nearly on the same level of quality that this show usually is. If you go back a few seasons, the show has been spectacular in introducing and developing characters, even when its way diverges from the books' (I'm thinking about Tywin, Walder, Melisandre, Mance, Olenna, Margaery, Brienne...). I mean, if you watch Cersei with the High Sparrow, or Stannis with Selyse and Melisandre, and then jump to Ellaria and the Sand Snakes... It doesn't even seem like the same show. It's not that bad on itself, but it doesn't compare to the rest of it. I think the same applies to the homophobic sparrows at the brothel. I can't bite that they killed some gay nobles on the minute 1 of their newborn army. It feels very simple and cheesy compared to the show itself. Those were my problems with those two scenes. But still, I think we have to give more time to the Sand Snakes. They may be given more depth, specially if, as some speculate, they play a big role on the next season. Yeah, that's why I hated it. It wasn't bad per se, but very below the standards of this show. If I saw it in Starz's Spartacus I would've liked it, and I loved that show, but it didn't feel like GoT. Yey, dude with the awesome gif agreed with me. Today is a happy day! |
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Post by kingeomer on May 4, 2015 10:53:32 GMT
^^^ Yeah Sparrows seemed cheesy to me too. Carvings on the forehead? What is this Fight Club? Shame they wasted Barristan. I feel bad for the actor. Imagine having barely any lines and being stuck in the background until you have 1 fight scene and die? Ugh. My thoughts exactly. Absolutely loved Barristan and was excited for a possible bigger role for him. However, Ian McElehenny (?) was terrific in the role and Barristan went out like a boss. I don't understand how Grey Worm could possibly survive his wounds though, didn't he get a sword through him? The thing I thought that stunk was Ian saying in EW that he basically figured out his character was a goner based by how less his shooting days were and he had to ask a line producer about it and then D&D call him with the news. So basically if he had not figured out by the dates, he would have found out how Thomas Sangster found out, reading the eventual script. The best of the episode for me: The fight with Barristan and Grey Worm and Stannis and Shireen. Other than that this episode was not my favorite. I am really tired of creepy nude scenes with Melisandre. Glad Jon turned her down but as much as last week where Kit Harington was at his best, this episode was not his best. I thought Kings Landing would be more interesting. Since they aged up Tommen, why is he still such a weak ruler? Can't he go to the faith and demand Loras be released? I fear for Bronn. I want to see more of the Sand Snakes before I judge that storyline there has to be more to them then just revenge. |
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that's a good one
I'm not saying the show should follow the books, it's just that Barry has been set up as this badass guy all along, and now I think he could've just been cut from the show.
