|
Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 14:13:12 GMT
I think the show missed an opportunity to parallel Dany's and Cersei's small councils in 5x10. With both queens away and sizeable swathes of both populations in rebellion against the queens, both small councils are in similar positions, but they're dealing with the situations completely differently.
Dany's small council still has a competency problem and a tendency toward putting Dany on too high a pedestal. But they're gung-ho to get their queen back, they're trying to respect her wishes in the meantime, they speak to each other honestly, and they make meritocratic decisions.
The Kings Landing small councils tend to have competent people on them - Pycelle is less incompetent than he pretends to be and Mace is a figurehead for the competent Tyrell women. But most of the counselors are working at cross purposes to the monarchy most of the time and the small council is always notably disrespectful to the monarchy, especially during this crisis. And they make a point of avoiding honest conversations and meritocratic decisions.
Further, a Kings Landing small council meeting would have given us a check-in on the people actually running Westeros at this point, which would have been interesting.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 22:49:23 GMT
Looks as if Arya is in for another round of training , but that can't be more than 3 episodes , then what? I wonder what will prompt her to go back to Westeros. Will the faceless men send her (seems unlikely since she doesn't have time to finish training)? Will she hear something about her family that makes her want to go back? Maybe she gets word of Sansa's whereabouts? (She's always known where Jon was, so more news about him seems unlikely to budge her.) Or maybe Bran starts talking to her in her dreams, like Bloodraven did to him? Or is it that she goes on the run from the faceless men? I dunno, none of those scenarios really click for me. But I think the answer to your question probably is "whatever it is that sends Arya back toward Westeros".
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 22:43:53 GMT
They have to address most the cliffhangers from 5x10 in 6x01. I think they have to check in with Jon/Melissandre, Sansa & Theon, Brienne, and they have to update us on what is going on in Kings Landing. The dragons becoming unchained would be a really cool way to end the episode. Arya and Dany also had cliffhangers but weren't in imminent danger of dying and I could see one of them sitting out of the premiere. If they don't introduce Euron in the first scene, maybe it would make more sense to wait for the second episode to bring him in and just spend the premiere wrapping up cliffhangers and setting up season arcs.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 19:41:02 GMT
I think there will be some form of Red Wedding 2.0 in which Walder Frey remarries and the BWB crash the wedding. The books were talking about a Frey wedding and had some members of the BWB set up to infiltrate it. The show was talking about Frey needing a new wife. Bolton dropped the heavy hint that Blackfish is going to be a problem for Frey back in 3x10. I do think that Blackfish will be part of the BWB because where else would he pop up? But I don't see Gendry being back with the BWB because they sold him. Sansa might be involved with the Riverlands goings on. With no supplies, dangerous deserters running around in the north, and Ramsay tipped off about Jon at the Wall, it does make sense for Sansa to flee south. And she is angry and ruthless now. But she's not a general and the BWB has ample leadership between Beric, Thoros, and Blackfish. I don't really see them taking her seriously. So I kind of doubt she ends up with the BWB - what would be the point? Brienne and Pod probably encounter the BWB on their way south, either with Sansa or after giving up on Sansa. Boltons might claim that Sansa died when Stannis attacked, rather than admit that Sansa ran away (Boltons even have a handy dead woman for the funeral service). Hearing about Sansa's death would hit Brienne really hard. Littlefinger left the capital at the end of season 5 with the stated intention of mustering Vale troops to take Winterfell before winter. His action was royally sanctioned since Cersei viewed both the Boltons and Stannis to be traitors. I suspect that Littlefinger's love for Catelyn makes him want to kill both Freys and Boltons - even if his love was twisted and selfish, it still probably extends to wanting to murder the people who killed her. With his army passing through the area, he could also contribute to whatever happens in the Riverlands. Maybe Jaime has something to do with the Riverlands, but my guess is that he probably is going to go back to Kings Landing and stay there. If Brienne is going to die for Jaime in the books as a turning point in Jaime's character, Myrcella's death might get him to the same place. If these events happen, LSH fans will be even more pissed. I think the Blackfish is more honorable than to kill people at a wedding.. even though it would be for revenge.. My predictions are rarely right, mostly I just like to speculate and it seems to annoy you guys less than it annoys my husband. Blackfish's primary goal would probably be rescuing Edmure. And Blackfish wouldn't be invited to the wedding, so he wouldn't be violating guest right. But yeah, it would be a dark thing for him to do. I think LSH fans are going to be inevitably furious with whatever decision the show makes because LSH isn't going to be included in the show. But I think the BWB will probably still massacre the Freys.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 19:34:04 GMT
Jon could stay dead for a season. The resurrection could involve changing actors. Jon's soul takes over somebody else's body. Changing actors would be terrible and wouldn't match the previous resurrections from the show (Beric and Wights) or the books (LSH, Beric and the Wights) I agree it would be very strange to go that route, but I think it should be considered as a possibility, especially in light of Kit claiming to be done with the show now. Between people-warging, Coldhands, the strange things the White Walkers are capable of, and Melissandre's glamours, there seems to me to be scope in the universe for Jon to undergo a radical transformation. I think Jon going dormant is more likely, but was just putting the other thing on the table.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 17:17:45 GMT
Jon could stay dead for a season. The resurrection could involve changing actors. Jon's soul takes over somebody else's body.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 15:13:28 GMT
Myranda's death might prove enough of a distraction. Like Ramsay finds out about her, flips out, and Roose and Ramsay finally turn on each other. In the excitement, everybody forgets about Sansa and Theon for a while. Also possible: the Sansa-hunting party runs into LF's army and has to give up on finding Sansa. LF did say he wanted to take Winterfell before winter set in, so he could show up whenever. Also possible: Melissandre or Bran manage some anti-Bolton magic that give Sansa and Theon a chance to get away (that might actually be a cool way to reintroduce Bran). Also possible: Sansa and Theon find some northern supporters that hide them. Or they run into Brienne and Pod, or Blackfish who was trying to rescue his great-niece, or the BWB are wandering around in the north for some reason, or Gendry because I still think Gendry and Sansa should meet, or Sandor on his way to take the Black, or Osha and Rickon, or those Wildling climbing parties that Mance claimed he sent over the wall in 4x10, or Nymeria, or I don't even know. Also possible: Ramsay just isn't very competent. I do think that Sansa and Littlefinger have unfinished business, so I think the most likely outcome is that she and Theon end up with Littlefinger's army. But there are a lot of things that could happen. These are all good guesses but I think the most obvious thing that will happen to Sansa and Theon is what they left the scenes open for in their cliffhangers. Brienne just chopped off Stannis' head in the woods just outside of Winterfell. Sansa and Theon both know where the battlefield was and will probably make a run for it to see if Stannis or any of his army survived and can protect them and take them somewhere safe. They'll get to that area of the woods, we'll hear the barking of dogs as Ramsay has let loose his bitches to come find them and then Brienne and Pod will be there with horses and they'll make a quick getaway. To where is anybody's guess though but Brienne and Sansa won't know about Jon's assassination yet so likely they head to the wall. I am starting to doubt that Sansa ever hooks up with Brienne. Mostly because I see that as a dead end. Sansa is entirely political - she needs to be in places where she can be involved in politics rather than camping out in the woods with Brienne. And like you say, they would probably all go to the Wall which would probably just get them all killed. Also, we know that Brienne in the books is in a really dark place at this point. But if Brienne actually manages to save Sansa, she'll be really happy and feel validated. I think Brienne needs to fail with Sansa to get to her dark place. I think there is a chance that Ramsay will pretend that Myranda's body is Sansa in order to avoid admitting that his wife ran away. Less embarrassing to claim that she died accidentally in the excitement when Stannis attacked. Anyway, if Brienne thinks that Sansa is dead because Brienne wandered off to kill Stannis, that would really mess her up. Also, I think Sansa needs to end up back with Littlefinger and Brienne needs to end up with the BWB. If they're going to different places, I don't see how they could do that together. Though Brienne and Theon might be an interesting pairing. And it would be sweet to put sympathetic characters together for a bit. I just think Brienne's choice to go after Stannis will cost her the reunion with Sansa.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 14:52:11 GMT
I think there will be some form of Red Wedding 2.0 in which Walder Frey remarries and the BWB crash the wedding. The books were talking about a Frey wedding and had some members of the BWB set up to infiltrate it. The show was talking about Frey needing a new wife. Bolton dropped the heavy hint that Blackfish is going to be a problem for Frey back in 3x10. I do think that Blackfish will be part of the BWB because where else would he pop up? But I don't see Gendry being back with the BWB because they sold him.
Sansa might be involved with the Riverlands goings on. With no supplies, dangerous deserters running around in the north, and Ramsay tipped off about Jon at the Wall, it does make sense for Sansa to flee south. And she is angry and ruthless now. But she's not a general and the BWB has ample leadership between Beric, Thoros, and Blackfish. I don't really see them taking her seriously. So I kind of doubt she ends up with the BWB - what would be the point?
Brienne and Pod probably encounter the BWB on their way south, either with Sansa or after giving up on Sansa. Boltons might claim that Sansa died when Stannis attacked, rather than admit that Sansa ran away (Boltons even have a handy dead woman for the funeral service). Hearing about Sansa's death would hit Brienne really hard.
Littlefinger left the capital at the end of season 5 with the stated intention of mustering Vale troops to take Winterfell before winter. His action was royally sanctioned since Cersei viewed both the Boltons and Stannis to be traitors. I suspect that Littlefinger's love for Catelyn makes him want to kill both Freys and Boltons - even if his love was twisted and selfish, it still probably extends to wanting to murder the people who killed her. With his army passing through the area, he could also contribute to whatever happens in the Riverlands.
Maybe Jaime has something to do with the Riverlands, but my guess is that he probably is going to go back to Kings Landing and stay there. If Brienne is going to die for Jaime in the books as a turning point in Jaime's character, Myrcella's death might get him to the same place.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 13:35:42 GMT
In the episode 5x10 discussion, somebody had counted up the Stannis vs Ramsay troops. I'm curious if anybody did that for the Wildlings that Jon saved? Jon estimated that 5000 agreed to get on the boats, but the evacuation was in progress when the attack commenced so the number that actually survived should have been lower than 5000. I eyeballed it at a few thousand but I didn't take much time on my estimate and wondered if somebody had come up with a better number.
|
|
|
Dorne?
Jun 16, 2015 13:26:18 GMT
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 13:26:18 GMT
We don't know what Jaime did after the initial shock. I also think that the scene with Ellaria on the dock probably happened just before Myrcella died. Ellaria was exposed to the poison before Myrcella was and so would probably show symptoms earlier. Ellaria has more mass than Myrcella and possibly more poison tolerance, but she probably had to apply that lipstick before they got out onto the dock to avoid detection. So when Ellaria stared out at the boat slowly sailing away, that was probably before Myrcella started bleeding. We just don't know what happened after. But Jaime can't go back and dock in Dorne - the Lannister's only leverage once the Trystane / Myrcella marriage is off the table is that they have Trystane as a hostage. Even if Doran was completely honest in everything he said to Jaime, there is no way he'd consent to sending Trystane to Kings Landing in light of the new circumstances. And Jaime doesn't know if Ellaria was acting alone or if she had Doran's permission. Going back might just mean they all die. It isn't as if he has the manpower to go kill Ellaria. Agreed but he really has all the manpower needed to kill Ellaria and SS. Him and Bronn alone could do it. EDIT: I'm a snark! 1 000 posts! They couldn't turn the boat around, get back to the dock, murder Ellaria and sand snakes, and get back on the boat before Hotah arrived with guards. And Ellaria and sand snakes probably wouldn't just stand there for half and hour while the boat turned around and sailed back. Grats on snark!
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 13:20:56 GMT
I don't think we should assume that any more northern lords will be introduced / reintroduced. A lot of great material was excised by skipping them for season 5 - it would be strange to introduce them after skipping their good stuff. And how much time will we spend on Winterfell now that Sansa and Theon have escaped? The show has three armies to play with in the north already: Boltons, Tormund's Wildlings, and Littlefinger's army. They don't need more factions. Better to give Tormund's group some material than to introduce a new army or northern supporters. Anyway, a casting call for season 6 are already went out that didn't include northern lords. I guess we'll know soon enough. People keep saying LF army. I know he says something like that, but he not a military leader. I know one does not have to be to have an army. Even tho show wise don't follow book cannon I don't remember LF 'army' talk in the books, do I? Right, Littlefinger doesn't have a personal army. But in the show he seems confident that he can get the Vale lords to muster troops for him. We have no reason to disbelieve him - he seems to be on good terms with the lords of the Vale and Cersei agreed with his assessment (yes she's not an amazing political thinker but she is experienced with how these things work). Presumably when the Vale lords provide troops, they'll provide generals as well, or one of the introduced Vale lords will serve as general. And in the books Littlefinger is clearly trying to consolidate power in the Vale as well, and the Vale military forces are notably unscathed by war so far. I bet he does something with the Vale army in the books too.
|
|
|
Dorne?
Jun 16, 2015 12:43:53 GMT
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 12:43:53 GMT
Why didn't Jaime command the ship to turn back when Myrcella was being poisoned? We don't know what Jaime did after the initial shock. I also think that the scene with Ellaria on the dock probably happened just before Myrcella died. Ellaria was exposed to the poison before Myrcella was and so would probably show symptoms earlier. Ellaria has more mass than Myrcella and possibly more poison tolerance, but she probably had to apply that lipstick before they got out onto the dock to avoid detection. So when Ellaria stared out at the boat slowly sailing away, that was probably before Myrcella started bleeding. We just don't know what happened after. But Jaime can't go back and dock in Dorne - the Lannister's only leverage once the Trystane / Myrcella marriage is off the table is that they have Trystane as a hostage. Even if Doran was completely honest in everything he said to Jaime, there is no way he'd consent to sending Trystane to Kings Landing in light of the new circumstances. And Jaime doesn't know if Ellaria was acting alone or if she had Doran's permission. Going back might just mean they all die. It isn't as if he has the manpower to go kill Ellaria.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 12:29:59 GMT
Apparently I should've been more clear that comment was a joke. Sorry for jumping down your throat.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 12:29:06 GMT
She still has to run into Arya remember. And walk the walls of WF. So she'll be around for THAT long at least. She was wrong about Stannis, wrong about the BoI, but I have a feeling she may be correct about these two things. The wall is close to WF, so that could easily happen soon. When she was taking Gentry away from TBWB, she looked at Arya and foresaw her in HBW, but did she say she'd actually see her at some point in the future (as in person to person?) As I wrote in a response to Envie's post just now, she really creeps me out. "We will meet again." Vague enough that it could refer to something besides a face-to-face encounter, but that is the most obvious interpretation.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 12:24:12 GMT
I don't think we should assume that any more northern lords will be introduced / reintroduced. A lot of great material was excised by skipping them for season 5 - it would be strange to introduce them after skipping their good stuff. And how much time will we spend on Winterfell now that Sansa and Theon have escaped?
The show has three armies to play with in the north already: Boltons, Tormund's Wildlings, and Littlefinger's army. They don't need more factions. Better to give Tormund's group some material than to introduce a new army or northern supporters.
Anyway, a casting call for season 6 are already went out that didn't include northern lords. I guess we'll know soon enough.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 16, 2015 0:07:30 GMT
All season long , except for E9, Dany's token Dothraki have been around, thought at least one or two would have gone with Jorah and Darrio. D&D probably forgot she had them. I know you're being facetious, but that kind of comment really isn't fair. Dothraki extras were cast, costumed, carefully placed in the backgrounds of a number of scenes this season. Hard working people worked hard to include Dothraki in Dany's entourage this season. It demeans the work of those people to imply that this stuff is just down to D&D "remembering" or "forgetting". The show runners don't "forget" about Dany's Dothraki or about Balon or about Rickon or Gendry or whatever. They try to determine each season if it is worth flying in / casting actors, costuming them, devoting makeup resources to them, writing things for them to do, including them in shoots, and doing all of the other stuff that goes into making a TV show. Yes, it would have been nice to see Tommen in season 3, it would have been nice to see some Dothraki around Dany in seasons 3-4, it would have been nice to check in on Gendry. But the show has finite resources. How much do you suppose it costs to have Tommen wander across the background of a scene? At least $10,000 between getting the actor to show up, costuming him, including him in the shoot? Costuming extras as Dothraki and including them in Dany scenes isn't free either. And the obvious reason that Balon hasn't died yet in the show is that Euron has him murdered and they were holding off on introducing Euron. Given how much content they had in this season, I don't see how they could have done Euron in addition. We could discuss whether the Greyjoys would have worked better than the Dornish this season, but these things aren't forgotten. This show cares about these things down to the details of Sansa's buttons and prostitute continuity. Sometimes bad trade-offs are made, sometimes scenes are mangled, sometimes the writing or acting is bad. But it is just infuriating when people talk as if the show is created at the whim of a couple of lazy drunks rather than a huge team of competent, hard working people.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 22:51:23 GMT
I doubt Melisandre dies in early season 6. She's had several visions that imply she has a decently long future ahead of her - of walking on the walls of Winterfell, of seeing Arya again, of serving Azor Ahai. And she is hard to kill - poison did nothing to her, cold doesn't hurt her. I think she sticks with Jon. But they might go dormant for a while.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 22:03:29 GMT
Davos could just leave the Wall and the story. He doesn't have a good reason to participate in the game of thrones anymore.
He could stay at the Wall and take part in the Night's Watch vs. White Walker reprise. The Wall is running low on recognizable characters, and it isn't unthinkable that Davos would decide to help save the realm from the undead.
I'm hoping that Tormund and Davos team up move the Wildlings further south, or to an abandoned castle on the Wall. With Jon and Stannis dead, the Wildlings don't have a sanctioned presence in the north. And the White Walkers are coming. So Tormund needs to seek sanctuary. Davos might latch onto Karsi's moppets as a new purpose in life. Davos is an asset to Tormund because he knows Westerosi geography and politics and has a lot of shipping connections. I also think that Davos + Tormund would be an awesome pairing. And maybe they come across Rickon somehow. Since the northern lords aren't much of a presence in the show, it might make sense to have Tormund's wildlings be Rickon's main backers. (Given that Osha has been raising Rickon, he's culturally aligned with the Free Folk. And he's the only lord that would give the Free Folk the land they need.) Gives Tormund and Davos something to do, maintains character economy, gives the hope of some of the Free Folk surviving this story.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 20:43:47 GMT
In the books, the Dothraki had a retirement plan for the wives of dead Khals. By their traditions, Dany is supposed to go live in the horse city. So they might just try to take her there. But also, she's the mother of dragons who performed a big miracle in front of a bunch of Dothraki. Wouldn't they want to try to use her powers instead of just killing her? And if they kill her, presumably Drogon is going to go berserk, so they probably don't want to do that. And the Dothraki probably generally take wandering hot women as slaves rather than just murdering them outright. As for why Drogon isn't there for her, he's hurt and tired and he seems to assume that his mother can take care of herself for 30 minutes at a time. Presumably he'll go look for her shortly. Yes, but the Dothraki who left Drogo's khalasar after he died wanted Dany dead because she had done blood magic (in their eye by allowing MMD to do blood magic to try and bring Drogo back). Of course that didn't work because it was never MMD's intention to cure Drogo. Anyhow, the Dothraki hate blood magic and would either want Dany dead or take her as a slave and rape her. That's why I wasn't too keen on how they decided to leave Dany's story. Although, I know it was done for dramatic purposes. I do hope, however, that by the time Jorah and Daario find her she's set herself a head khaleesi and wasn't waiting around for them to rescue her. I'd forgotten that they were unhappy with her over the blood magic (and replied before I saw your point about that upthread). I agree with your hope that Dany figures out a mutually beneficial relationship with the Dothraki before Jorah and Daario show up. I doubt those two could do much to save from a khalisar, anyway, so she'd better figure it out.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 19:45:30 GMT
And then Varys when he popped up in Mereen? And we didnt want it to happen because it means Tyrion will be trapped in the Mereenese knot all next series and that interesting Varys KL plot with Kevan and GMP wont happen. The other two dragons getting out and deciding to eat as many citizens of Mereen as possible might be a good reason for Tyrion to abandon the city.
|
|