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Post by Admin on Jan 28, 2017 21:28:25 GMT
Hold on, are you choosing to feel bad for the alcoholic instead of the women who he molested?! I'm refusing to condemn somebody for something I can't confirm. I'm not choosing sides. I have room in my heart to empathize with both sides. Having a room in your heart to empathize with a rapist or a person who molests women is not a good thing imho.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 21:32:23 GMT
I'm refusing to condemn somebody for something I can't confirm. I'm not choosing sides. I have room in my heart to empathize with both sides. Having a room in your heart to empathize with a rapist or a person who molests women is not a good thing imho. I don't know that Casey Affleck is a rapist or a person who molests women.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 21:42:34 GMT
Settling out of court has less to do with guilt or innocence, and more to do with the fact that the accused has enough money to make the accuser drop the charges. If Affleck was guilty, why did his victim feel accept hush money, and let a bad person remain on the streets? If the allegations are true, Affleck does sound like a drunk asshole, but alcohol abuse is a very serious thing. And yet, it's the only disease that society deems appropriate to shame the person suffering from it. Idk. Maybe because media drags women like that through the mud. I can't say I'd blame them if they wanted to avoid being called liars, whores, etc who are just after his money. Because that's what happens. And between the girl whose arms is being "violently" twisted and the drunk guy she rejected who's doing the twisting, there's only one person I feel bad for and it's not him.What is this referring to? A specific example of something, or something you made up? Either way you're proving my point that we have little sympathy for alcoholics. I hope it never affects somebody you care about. We lost my uncle's partner when he woke up and vomited blood until he died.
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Post by Admin on Jan 28, 2017 21:46:43 GMT
If someone is an alcoholic they should be getting help and it's saddening when they don't. But it doesn't excuse commiting a crime under the influence. This is not a conversation about alcoholism or empathy for alcoholics and I'm not sure why are trying to make it into one, because there is nothing out there to suggest Casey is an alcoholic. And if he was i'm sure Ben, who is attending AA would be doing something about this.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 21:48:57 GMT
If someone is an alcoholic they should be getting help and it's saddening when they don't. But it doesn't excuse commiting a crime under the influence. This is not a conversation about alcoholism or empathy for alcoholics and I'm not sure why are trying to make it into one, because there is nothing out there to suggest Casey is an alcoholic. I think (allegedly) hopping in to bed with somebody and touching them while intoxicated is a pretty good suggestion that Casey might be an alcoholic. I'm not sure he'd do that sober.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 21:50:09 GMT
And if he was i'm sure Ben, who is attending AA would be doing something about this. If Ben has struggled with alcoholism there's a good chance others in his family do as well.
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Post by Admin on Jan 28, 2017 21:52:06 GMT
If someone is an alcoholic they should be getting help and it's saddening when they don't. But it doesn't excuse commiting a crime under the influence. This is not a conversation about alcoholism or empathy for alcoholics and I'm not sure why are trying to make it into one, because there is nothing out there to suggest Casey is an alcoholic. I think (allegedly) hopping in to bed with somebody and touching them while intoxicated is a pretty good suggestion that Casey might be an alcoholic. I'm not sure he'd do that sober. Well I have zero empathy for someone who would do that and I don't care what is in their system at the time. The law doesn't say 'he was drunk!' as an excuse and neither should people.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 21:56:50 GMT
I think (allegedly) hopping in to bed with somebody and touching them while intoxicated is a pretty good suggestion that Casey might be an alcoholic. I'm not sure he'd do that sober. Well I have zero empathy for someone who would do that and I don't care what is in their system at the time. The law doesn't say 'he was drunk!' as an excuse and neither should people. I don't think it's an excuse either, but I still have sympathy for somebody battling an addiction. Anybody committing a crime under the influence should answer to the law for those crimes, but I'm not going to condemn them forever. I think things are much too complex to file everybody into a 'good person' or 'bad person' category.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jan 28, 2017 21:57:48 GMT
Idk. Maybe because media drags women like that through the mud. I can't say I'd blame them if they wanted to avoid being called liars, whores, etc who are just after his money. Because that's what happens. And between the girl whose arms is being "violently" twisted and the drunk guy she rejected who's doing the twisting, there's only one person I feel bad for and it's not him.What is this referring to? A specific example of something, or something you made up? Either way you're proving my point that we have little sympathy for alcoholics. I hope it never affects somebody you care about. We lost my uncle's partner when he woke up and vomited blood until he died. one of the girls said Casey affleck twisted her arm "violently" when she rejected him. And let's not forget, we have no reason to think Casey Affleck is an alcoholic. We know he got drunk and acted like a fool, but we do not know if he has a legimaite addiction to alcohol. So I think we have jumped the gun here, and to be honest, I think that is a very unfair that you have made those conclusions about me and who I do and don't care about.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 22:04:51 GMT
What is this referring to? A specific example of something, or something you made up? Either way you're proving my point that we have little sympathy for alcoholics. I hope it never affects somebody you care about. We lost my uncle's partner when he woke up and vomited blood until he died. one of the girls said Casey affleck twisted her arm "violently" when she rejected him. And let's not forget, we have no reason to think Casey Affleck is an alcoholic. We know he got drunk and acted like a fool, but we do not know if he has a legimaite addiction to alcohol. So I think we have jumped the gun here, and to be honest, I think that is a very unfair that you have made those conclusions about me and who I do and don't care about. You're the one who told me There is absolutely a reason to speculate that Affleck is abusing alcohol, drinking so much that you molest people is not something a responsible drinker does. If it's okay to assume that Affleck probably molested Gorka while drunk, I don't see why it's unreasonable to speculate that Affleck is an alcoholic.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jan 28, 2017 22:25:45 GMT
one of the girls said Casey affleck twisted her arm "violently" when she rejected him. And let's not forget, we have no reason to think Casey Affleck is an alcoholic. We know he got drunk and acted like a fool, but we do not know if he has a legimaite addiction to alcohol. So I think we have jumped the gun here, and to be honest, I think that is a very unfair that you have made those conclusions about me and who I do and don't care about. You're the one who told me There is absolutely a reason to speculate that Affleck is abusing alcohol, drinking so much that you molest people is not something a responsible drinker does. If it's okay to assume that Affleck probably molested Gorka while drunk, I don't see why it's unreasonable to speculate that Affleck is an alcoholic. Yes I said that. I said that If he got drunk and almost broke a girls arm for not sleeping with him, I don't feel bad for him. If he's an alcoholic, I can feel sorry for him, for being addicted to alcohol. Not for almost breaking a girls arm when she won't have sex with you. I feel compassion for him and hope he gets the help he needs if he need it, but I still don't condone assault.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 22:37:28 GMT
You're the one who told me There is absolutely a reason to speculate that Affleck is abusing alcohol, drinking so much that you molest people is not something a responsible drinker does. If it's okay to assume that Affleck probably molested Gorka while drunk, I don't see why it's unreasonable to speculate that Affleck is an alcoholic. Yes I said that. I said that If he got drunk and almost broke a girls arm for not sleeping with him, I don't feel bad for him. If he's an alcoholic, I can feel sorry for him, for being addicted to alcohol. Not for almost breaking a girls arm when she won't have sex with you. I feel compassion for him and hope he gets the help he needs if he need it, but I still don't condone assault. Have I said anything to imply I condone assault? You said you don't think Affleck should win an award while these allegations are flying around. Aren't these allegations being brought up specifically because of the award season? The alleged assault happened back in 2010, and the parties settled out of court. What type of closure would you like to see before it's okay for Affleck to win an Oscar?
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jan 28, 2017 22:52:39 GMT
Yes I said that. I said that If he got drunk and almost broke a girls arm for not sleeping with him, I don't feel bad for him. If he's an alcoholic, I can feel sorry for him, for being addicted to alcohol. Not for almost breaking a girls arm when she won't have sex with you. I feel compassion for him and hope he gets the help he needs if he need it, but I still don't condone assault. Have I said anything to imply I condone assault? You said you don't think Affleck should win an award while these allegations are flying around. Aren't these allegations being brought up specifically because of the award season? The alleged assault happened back in 2010, and the parties settled out of court. What type of closure would you like to see before it's okay for Affleck to win an Oscar? didn't say you condone assault. I said that I don't feel sorry for someone who assaults another person. I can and do feel sorry for their alcohol dependency, but that doesn't change the fact that they assaulted someone, at least in my eyes. And as I said, his career will go on and people will get over it, and the Academy can do whatever it wants. I just think it would be in poor taste for him to win at this time with all this attention on him. And with that, I think I'm gonna tap out of this convo. All I cared to do was give my little comment on the oscars controversy, which may amount to nothing if the guy loses anyway.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 28, 2017 23:07:47 GMT
Have I said anything to imply I condone assault? You said you don't think Affleck should win an award while these allegations are flying around. Aren't these allegations being brought up specifically because of the award season? The alleged assault happened back in 2010, and the parties settled out of court. What type of closure would you like to see before it's okay for Affleck to win an Oscar? didn't say you condone assault. I said that I don't feel sorry for someone who assaults another person. I can and do feel sorry for their alcohol dependency, but that doesn't change the fact that they assaulted someone, at least in my eyes. And as I said, his career will go on and people will get over it, and the Academy can do whatever it wants. I just think it would be in poor taste for him to win at this time with all this attention on him. And with that, I think I'm gonna tap out of this convo. All I cared to do was give my little comment on the oscars controversy, which may amount to nothing if the guy loses anyway. Like I said earlier, alcohol would never excuse somebody for their actions, but it can shed some light on why somebody did something wrong. I think if you look at our justice system, you'll find that it's punitive, instead of reformative, which was its intent. Our behavior on social media reflects that. We are quick to judge others and shame them, whether it's from a position of moral outrage, social justice, or religious superiority. It can be pretty amazing, like in the case of Brock Turner, but I also think that can be dangerous if we don't actually have all the facts. The thing with Affleck is that for the parties involved, it's over. Our system allows for out-of-court settlements in civil issues, and that's what happened. So what more do we want? The irony here is that we are part of the Hollywood machine that props up celebrities and makes them so powerful. We are quick to tear them down when they falter, but I just don't feel comfortable putting myself in a position of judging others very often. You're right that his career will likely go on and people will forget, but that's not always the case. Social media can have powerful effects. I suspect Nate Parker's career is over and done with. His next project with Legendary pictures is all ready stalling. Anyway, interesting conversation and I do agree with some of your positions. (responsible drinking gif)
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Post by day dreamer on Jan 29, 2017 0:19:34 GMT
I just find it interesting that Parker's career is likely over but barely anyone knows about the allegations against Casey. Parkers was more severe given what happened to his victim but the media was completely against him, so why is Affleck different?
Also if we're talking about performances, Casey doesn't deserve to win anyways. Denzel does. Viggo gave a better performance too.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jan 29, 2017 12:42:08 GMT
and the fact that he settled out of court. I'm not a legal expert, but the way I look at it, innocent people don't do that. If you know you did nothing wrong, why avoid a trial and pay your accusers to drop the charges? Maybe he didn't do anything and it was a career move to avoid a trial, but idk. From what I've read, there's nothing here that makes me think "hmmm these girls seem like liars." To me, I see guy who was acting like a drunk asshole throwing money at a problem to make it go away. And i am aware these accusations are from years ago, and he may be a changed man for all I know, but it just rubs me the wrong way. And there's no guarantee he's gonna get the Oscar anyway, so we're all talking in hypotheticals here, but in the event that he wins, I don't think that sends a good message. Settling out of court has less to do with guilt or innocence, and more to do with the fact that the accused has enough money to make the accuser drop the charges. If Affleck was guilty, why did his victim feel accept hush money, and let a bad person remain on the streets?If the allegations are true, Affleck does sound like a drunk asshole, but alcohol abuse is a very serious thing. And yet, it's the only disease that society deems appropriate to shame the person suffering from it. Because proving these things can be very difficult, especially in a criminal case. And where one party is a well known celebrity, I tend to think a jury would be likely to be biased. And that's before mentioning the problems a woman may face in such cases. Just last year in the U.K. a woman's sexual history was deemed relevant in a rape trial. Perhaps I just have less faith in the justice system than you do though.
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Post by kingeomer on Jan 29, 2017 13:36:02 GMT
I just find it interesting that Parker's career is likely over but barely anyone knows about the allegations against Casey. Parkers was more severe given what happened to his victim but the media was completely against him, so why is Affleck different?Also if we're talking about performances, Casey doesn't deserve to win anyways. Denzel does. Viggo gave a better performance too. That's my question too. Parker was found innocent of the charges brought against him (doesn't mean he was innocent, just that the courts found him innocent) and it is sad what happened to his alleged victim. I guess because her family came out, that did not help him at all, where as none of the women (or woman) has come out about Affleck. I definitely think the differing treatment between Parker and Affleck really speaks to racism and how important one's name is in Hollywood.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jan 29, 2017 20:34:31 GMT
Settling out of court has less to do with guilt or innocence, and more to do with the fact that the accused has enough money to make the accuser drop the charges. If Affleck was guilty, why did his victim feel accept hush money, and let a bad person remain on the streets?If the allegations are true, Affleck does sound like a drunk asshole, but alcohol abuse is a very serious thing. And yet, it's the only disease that society deems appropriate to shame the person suffering from it. Because proving these things can be very difficult, especially in a criminal case. And where one party is a well known celebrity, I tend to think a jury would be likely to be biased. And that's before mentioning the problems a woman may face in such cases. Just last year in the U.K. a woman's sexual history was deemed relevant in a rape trial. Perhaps I just have less faith in the justice system than you do though. I understand that, I'm just curious how people come to assume one side or the other. I'm playing devil's advocate. I think the US justice system is very flawed, but I believe the principle of innocent until proven guilty is very important. If somebody settles out of court for something like this, no justice can be served. We can shame people on social media but that's a very dangerous line to walk when we don't really know what happened. In short: yes a jury could be biased towards a celebrity, but by assuming Affleck's guilt, aren't we guilty of our own bias?
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jan 30, 2017 3:08:13 GMT
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Post by Belle on Jan 30, 2017 3:22:56 GMT
i'm just here to say that i'm glad that casey affleck didn't win
brie larson looked really relieved too lmao. she actually favorited a tweet of someone praising her "quiet defiance" while presenting the award to casey during the globes
also glad that la la land didn't win best cast for motion picture. that movie was so meh
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