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Post by janicia on Jun 25, 2015 5:55:45 GMT
So all season long we were speculating about the 4 deaths of characters who weren't dead in the books. Did we arrive at any consensus on what characters that ended up talking about, or was it just nonsense?
Barristan, Mance, Trant, Shireen, and Selyse all definitely died. And probably Myrcella and Stannis also died. Which makes 7 ish.
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Post by janicia on Jun 25, 2015 3:48:08 GMT
I would love it if Theon and Sansa had a moment with a weirwood tree. Sansa seems to have lost her religion in Kings Landing. And Theon is really messed up. Bran reaching through the tree to comfort Theon and Sansa, or warn them of danger / guide them to supporters, would give both characters hope (the Old Gods are real and they're looking out for me!). Both Sansa and Theon have struggled to hold on to Starkiness - personal confirmation of the Stark Gods would help them re-root themselves in the Stark family traditions. The scene I'm imagining wouldn't be a confession - more of a baptism or a divine connection. There's nothing like your little brother speaking through a tree to make you religious again, eh? Eh, I'm probably off in some silly headspace. Just was trying to think of a version of that scene that included Sansa and fit after the Winterfell escape. And I'd love to see something hopeful.
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Post by janicia on Jun 24, 2015 19:28:15 GMT
I would love it if Theon and Sansa had a moment with a weirwood tree. Sansa seems to have lost her religion in Kings Landing. And Theon is really messed up. Bran reaching through the tree to comfort Theon and Sansa, or warn them of danger / guide them to supporters, would give both characters hope (the Old Gods are real and they're looking out for me!). Both Sansa and Theon have struggled to hold on to Starkiness - personal confirmation of the Stark Gods would help them re-root themselves in the Stark family traditions.
The scene I'm imagining wouldn't be a confession - more of a baptism or a divine connection.
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Post by janicia on Jun 24, 2015 15:47:44 GMT
And wouldn't it be weird for her to end up Princess of Dragonstone as opposed to Queen. I don't imagine she'd take kindly to that! I disagree. If someone came along with a better claim than she, I'm 99.9% sure Dany would recognise that and bend the knee*, if they pressed their claim. Above all else, Dany is pretty desperate to belong, and another relative would help provide her with that. She wants the throne because she believes it is her birthright and she wants vengeance on those who wronged her family, not because she's the power hungry bitch who wants it just for power like so many people believe her to be *With the exception of fAegon because I think while Dany will want him to be legit, I don't think she will believe him, but if she did believe him she would absolutely bend the knee. I think it would depend on what they were offering her. Dany would never bend the knee to somebody that thought of her as a princess that he can arrange a political marriage for - she's just not going to accept the role of a submissive wife and mother. She would demand to be treated as a lord in her own right at the very least. Tensions with Dany might be one of the political implications of Cersei's Walk of Shame, actually. That is the kind of thing that Dany would hear about, and it could shape her dealings with Westerosi. Although though nobody in Dany's camp has ever liked Cersei, part of what was going on in that Walk was a patriarchy wresting power from a queen, and Dany could react very negatively to that. Also, once Dany has brought Unsullied and Dothraki to Westeros, assuming that is what she ends up doing, she will feel hugely responsible to keep them alive and help them prosper. I don't think she could submit to another claimant for the throne unless binding promises were made that her armies wouldn't be slaughtered, and instead were given generous lands. And Westerosi are not going to be at all happy about coexisting with the Dothraki or Unsullied. Dany might feel like she can only protect the lives she's responsible for if she becomes queen. Dany might even be right - no idea what Jon's Dothraki policy would be, but the Dothraki probably wouldn't like it. And neither the Dothraki nor the Unsullied would be at all keen on becoming subjects of somebody besides Dany. She could lose control of them by submitting to another king, and kick off another nasty war. I hope that Tyrion and Dany think some of this stuff through before they put a bunch of soldiers on ships. Though the probably eventual collapse of Mereen will probably force their hands and cause them to launch the invasion in a less thoughtful manner than one might desire.
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Post by janicia on Jun 23, 2015 18:53:24 GMT
Have really thought a lot about the Jon Snow thing this past week... Along with the clumsy way they handled Stannis, I'm quite a bit more annoyed with Jon's "death" scene than I initially was after the finale. Maybe it's because I've read more reasonable/logical arguments about it here and in articles and reviews but you know what? The way they decided to play out FTW was shitty and there's just really no excuse for it. Why were D&D afraid to make Jon an oathbreaker? Why make alliser/olly into 'evil' bad guys and Jon into a 'good' guy who was just trying to save wildlings? Also - why are they having Kit lie in interviews? Did they really think we'd buy it that they sat him down and said his time on the show was over and he's not coming back? This is lame. It's lame they didn't explore his warging abilities. It's lame they had Melisandre show up two minutes before he's killed and Davos is there too ... but nah, those don't mean shit. He's just dead and gone. I'm pretty put out right now, can you tell? I think FTW had to change because they put Jon at Hardhome (which I thought was a really cool thing to do). Two weeks after seeing the army of the dead rise with your own eyes, after you've seen most of the Free Folk be slaughtered almost effortlessly and then join the army of the dead - you'd have to be incredibly scatterbrained / stupid / irresponsible to get caught up in Winterfell politics, even if your sister is there. They had Jon stare into the face of the death of his entire civilization. Jon simply couldn't credibly pivot from that to "Winterfell is now my top priority". I do blame Jon for barely even trying to persuade the men of the Night's Watch of the path he needed to take. When he started making unpopular decisions, he started avoiding his men. And his big speech about unifying humanity against the dead was only ever delivered to the Free Folk, not to the men of the Night's Watch or to Stannis. Sheesh, Stannis should have sent away his mercenaries, bought more supplies, and then settled into a tower to defend the Wall through the winter, and Jon never even suggested such a course of action to him. So we did see Jon fail as a leader. It wasn't just that his men lacked vision, it was also that we never saw Jon really try to share his vision with them. Which is Starky of him. People talked about that last scene of Jon going through his mail as a nod to the Pink Letter, and maybe it was, but it was also a telling scene of Jon isolating himself from his men. He should have had guys like Thorne in there to hear their advice and keep the leadership unified and informed. He just didn't want to deal with Thorne, so he was alone. Maybe the show should have included some kind of inciting incident between Thorne's group and the Free Folk. Maybe the discussion about sacrificing their winter supplies to keep the Free Folk alive. Maybe an incident with Wun Wun. Maybe a reprisal from the Free Folk over Mance's death. Something to justify Thorne's decision that the situation was untenable, and in particular, to explain the timing of the mutiny. But I'm glad they didn't make Jon into the kind of moron who forgets about the oncoming zombie army he has seen with his own eyes.
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Post by janicia on Jun 23, 2015 18:39:54 GMT
I really hope that the hardcore swordsman they are looking for isn't Arthur Dayne. Because if they do a ToJ flashback, the best swordsman in Europe is going to have to fight Sean Bean and whoever they cast as Howland Reed and.... lose? That'd be a tremendous waste. It won't be the Tower of Joy. That's like having a flashback to the climax of a Roberts Rebellion prequel. They'd ruin a spinoff's own marketability from a business standpoint. People stuck around With the Star Wars prequels just to see Vader vs. Obi-Wan. If they have to setup Dawn, he fights the smiling Knight in a flashback. The two duel, then there's pause. The SK looks at his sword and its full of notches being totally chewed up. Dawn is radiant. They go at it again. Dawn and Dayne start hacking the rest of the sword away piece by piece at a time until the SK is down to just a hilt and blade. Contrasting this scene to Trant vs Syrio, Ser Arthur says something "if you desire my head, you'd best get a fresh sword." Dayne puts the tip of Dawn in the ground and waits for the SK to fetch a new one. The SK says "it's not your head I want, its that sword of yours." Dayne replies, "then you shall have it, Ser." and they go at it again and Dayne slays him. Then later Howland shows up in the main time line and has the sword with him and we all know what it is. Except that if they were doing something like that, they should have put "one legendary swordsmen and another scary looking guy who is also a great swordsman" in the casting call. I'm also puzzled about why Dawn would be a big deal in the show. Longclaw and Oathkeeper are both already in play if an important Valyrian sword has to do something, and the show has established that there are dozens of these swords lying around in Westeros. They don't need to go into sword backstory in order to have a Valyrian sword pop up somewhere important. And I know some people geek out over sword lore - and more power to them - but I really don't care about it. I'd rather that precious show resources be spent on the main story started in season 1, not filling out sword lore. I think that the legendary sword guy is either Azor Ahai fighting CGI, or that he's just a great swordsman fighting a character we already know, such as UnGregor.
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Post by janicia on Jun 23, 2015 18:29:58 GMT
That shit was so dark I'm still amazed people managed to gif Sansa, gifing Roose would be a task as impossible as gifing Dany in her dragon dungeon Yeah, Roose is always in a dark room or something. Pretty hard to get some good gifs. Ramsay is always eating or drinking, but he has more scenes, so it's easier to get some good pics. Ramsay and Sandor should eat together sometime.
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Post by janicia on Jun 22, 2015 22:22:03 GMT
I think we may be jumping the gun a bit with the casting calls and making assumptions that's all there is, aren't we? Last season and other seasons, casting info didn't come this early after the prior season finale, did it? Nor was everyone cast announced early on ... some big names (Pryce I think?) didn't show up until much later. I'm no expert on this (konrad!) but I wouldn't be so quick to assume parts/plots are in or out just from what tiny bit of info we have thus far. I don't remember the exact sequence of events last year, but casting lists on WIC in June 2014 had: Doran, Trystane, Areo, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, High Sparrow, Septa Unella, Maggy the Frog, Lollys, Yezzan, the Waif, Varamyr, Young Cersei, and Young Cersei's friend. High Sparrow, Yezzan, and the Dornish characters were in the comicon cast announcement video in July. Apparently news of Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje's casting broke in October, and Tom Wlaschiha's return was confirmed in March. So Varamyr was turned into Karsi, and several smaller roles from season 5 weren't in those initial lists: the Thenn, the Baratheon general, Clea the prostitute Tyrion talks to, the prostitute in Mereen, the old servant woman in Winterfell, the pirate Malko, the insurance agent, Rattleshirt recast, the Mereenese gladiators, the fighting pit MC, the Night's King, the Braavosi madam, the terminally ill child and her father, Jaime's ship's captain, and I don't remember what other minor roles. Of those, the largest role was the Thenn or Malko. I just remember this huge argument last year about how Manderly and Euron and Aegon and fArya were all going to be cast on the sly. People argued up and down that a lot of casting news is suppressed during filming and pointed to Mallister as proof - we only found out that Mallister was going to be a season 5 role because JJ Murphy passed away. That was all wishful thinking last season and it is probably wishful thinking again. They included some smallish roles in the casting they already put out. My guess is that whatever roles haven't been announced yet for season 6 are Malko-sized or smaller. Which goes back to the lack of Oldtown and Greyjoy characters - maybe they're only doing a mini-arc in Oldtown, like the Boltons in season 4? Or maybe more of the established characters will go there? Ellaria could go to Oldtown to get out of Dorne. Maybe Qyburn somehow fills the Marwyn role? I could kind of imagine Kevan sending Qyburn back to the Citadel to get rid of him. And maybe Euron will have some established character as a captive / collaborator. I dunno.
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Post by janicia on Jun 22, 2015 16:50:40 GMT
So right now, the casting news points to one or two flashbacks in season 6, right? One flashback to young Ned, Robert, and Brandon that comes to us through Bran. And possibly a flashback to the legendary swordsman doing a fight scene against CGI.
The Oldtown and Greyjoy plots still seem underpopulated to me if they're going to have proper stories. Euron should have at least one creepy person, and he probably needs somebody to murder in an interesting way. And you need somebody in Oldtown besides Tarlys. Maybe the one wimpy maester is in Oldtown too, and maybe even some Sands, but that is really slim pickings.
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Post by janicia on Jun 22, 2015 16:08:32 GMT
We shouldn’t assume we’ll get the book 5 Northern stuff in season 6. Wouldn’t make sense anyway with Stannis defeated and Sansa escaped. We’ll probably get some version of the book 6 Northern stuff in season 6. And the Manderlys are probably about spent in the books – Wyman was on a suicide mission. His men are about to fight the Frey army and Stannis’ forces – they’re mostly going to die. And after they do, there will be mostly Bolton supporters inside Winterfell and mostly anti-Boltons outside Winterfell, with lots of men of dubious loyalty – the show seems to be jumping to that point and going straight to whatever happens next.
Has there been any casting news about Rickon or Osha? I’m surprised it seems to be widely assumed that they’ll be showing up in season 6, and assumed that Sansa makes contact with them. If Rickon shows up in S6, I bet he won’t interact with Sansa.
The Frey pie thing might possibly surface with Walder Frey’s wedding.
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Post by janicia on Jun 19, 2015 16:24:47 GMT
I'm curious about the legendary swordsman. If his ethnicity doesn't matter, doesn't that point to him being non-Westerosi? But maybe we've been wrong to assume that UnGregors big fight would be against an established character. Or maybe they're just bringing in this guy for a cool little fight scene, like the Dornish stuntrider in season 5. Surprising to see Northern lords, but very cool. I don't think the new thugs are likely to be the BWB. They already had a bunch of BWB guys cast - if you want to show that the BWB has gone wrong you should Thoros and Co. doing bad stuff rather than bring in 4 new guys. Maybe Brienne runs into these new guys and the whole BWB plot is replaced? One benefit to that I guess is that you don't have to explain what happened to Beric. I dunno. The key to the Legendary Swordsman description is that he's carrying a famous sword. That narrows things down considerably. And they need him for a week's worth of shooting which would suggest a fairly significant scene rather than just a one-off duel like the Dornish stuntrider. And the other issue with the outlaw group is that they are described to be exactly what the BwB are in the books. They can't just be random baddies because it says their original mission to protect the smallfolk has been perverted. And they are said to be using religion as their justification which is what happens to them once they start adhering more to the Lord of Light. It's curious that they've listed a leader but if they've expanded the group's role, maybe they want to have multiple voices outside of just Thoros and Anguy (Beric presumably now being dead). Just to play devil's advocate - what do they mean by famous sword? Famous to whom? There aren't many famous swords in the show - pretty much just Ice, Longclaw, Oathkeeper, Widow's Wail, and Needle. So this "famous sword" is going to be new to the show. Maybe it is one of the famous swords we know from the books, maybe not. We don't know which swords will even be important in book 6. If Legendary Swordsman is for a flashback, he needs scene partners. He's got to fight somebody. Why aren't there any other swordsmen on the casting call? If it is ToJ, his main opponent would be Sean Bean, but that was a fight between 10 men, not 2. Where are the others? I agree that the outlaw group sounds a lot like the BWB. It is just weird that they'd need to cast so many new outlaws if they were planning to bring back any of the established BWB characters. Which makes me wonder if they're replacing the BWB entirely. But maybe it just means that the BWB are going to have a large enough role to justify half a dozen named characters.
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Post by janicia on Jun 19, 2015 15:24:24 GMT
I'm curious about the legendary swordsman. If his ethnicity doesn't matter, doesn't that point to him being non-Westerosi?
But maybe we've been wrong to assume that UnGregors big fight would be against an established character. Or maybe they're just bringing in this guy for a cool little fight scene, like the Dornish stuntrider in season 5.
Surprising to see Northern lords, but very cool.
I don't think the new thugs are likely to be the BWB. They already had a bunch of BWB guys cast - if you want to show that the BWB has gone wrong you should Thoros and Co. doing bad stuff rather than bring in 4 new guys. Maybe Brienne runs into these new guys and the whole BWB plot is replaced? One benefit to that I guess is that you don't have to explain what happened to Beric. I dunno.
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Post by janicia on Jun 18, 2015 16:29:08 GMT
My guess is that Varys stays in Dany's entourage and hires people to do things from afar.
I'm also assuming that Randall Tarly won't go to the capital, Olenna and Mace will project Tyrell power in Kings Landing.
I think Olenna will be named to the small council. And with Kevan in charge, I bet Tommen will start attending those meetings.
I think Jaime will stay in Kings Landing.
I think there will be conflict over whether to send troops against Dorne or to protect Oldtown. I think everything will keep getting worse for Lannisters in the capital, culminating in Cersei's decision to burn the city down.
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Post by janicia on Jun 18, 2015 16:15:28 GMT
I think (as it was last season), the major roles that will appear in S6 are on that 1st casting call. Any additional casting calls (as it was last season) will be for much more minor characters. It seems like they need to cast at least one prominent maester for Oldtown, right? It would be weird to have an Oldtown plot with just Tarlys.
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Post by janicia on Jun 18, 2015 16:00:06 GMT
Wow, thanks guys! I appreciate it.
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Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 22:29:52 GMT
My guess is that Ellaria, at least, will flee Dorne. She wasn't on a suicide mission - she took the antidote. And Doran's threat to execute her sounded convincing to me. So she's gotta flee Dorne. Or kill Doran, but I don't see her as being up for that.
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Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 19:49:34 GMT
Sansa and Theon bump into Littlefinger’s army. Littlefinger defeats the Boltons and takes over Winterfell. The Boltons have a funeral for Sansa using Myranda’s body and a big cloak. Better for them that she be officially dead than at large. Roose reams Ramsay out for losing his wife. Ramsay tells Roose to shut up since Ramsay just won a big military victory. (It must have been deliberate that they showed Ramsay running around on the field but not Roose. I think leading the troops to victory will embolden Ramsay.) After losing track of Sansa again, Brienne and Pod either end up in the Riverlands or at the Wall. If Stannis is alive, hopefully he makes it back to the Wall and takes the black. Brienne could be magnificent at the Wall with her Valyrian sword. Jon and Melissandre go dormant for a while. Tormund either slaughters the night’s watchmen at Castle Black (sans Edd?) and takes over that castle or settles in a different castle along the Wall. Or maybe Tormund moves his people into Moat Cailin. Davos goes with Tormund because Tormund has moppets. Or maybe Davos tries to leave with Stannis’ ships and gets captured by Euron. I don’t think the northern lords will ever be much of a presence in the show. If Rickon pops up in season 6, I bet it will be with Tormund. Just a hunch here, but I do not think Littlefinger is ever going to rally an army. That was all bullshit. What is Littlefinger? A man who has risen to the top of the noble dung pile by lying his way there and outsmarting everyone else. He lied to the Vale about where he was taking Sansa and his intentions. He then lied to the Boltons about his intentions to raise the Vale (after telling the Vale something else) and then left Sansa as a present for the Boltons to keep them pacified while he went to King's Landing where he then lied to Cersei with an entirely different story about Sansa and the Boltons. You see where this is leading? He has zero intentions of actually going to war - he's not a war commander. He has every intention in getting the kingdoms to tear each other apart first. Chaos is a Ladder.
As for the rest, I do think Tormund has some part to play in things at the wall with the wildlings and left that out of my summary since I was answering Nezzer's 21 questions and honestly I have no clue what the wildlings are going to do other than settle the Gift as promised by Jon and then fight the Walkers when they come (and probably be slaughtered since they have no valyrian steel or dragonglass). Davos is such a wild-card - your ideas are as good as mine. He could go anywhere at this point but I hope they keep him in the story. So much fun to speculate on these things. I agree with you that nothing Littlefinger says can be trusted. In mid season 5, I assumed that Littlefinger was going to try to take the Twins with the Vale army. It is a valuable castle filled with his enemies and it isn't stuck in the norther winter. The idea of LF marching all the way up to Winterfell seemed bizarre to me at the time. Surely he doesn't want to get stuck up there all winter. And if the White Walkers are going to overwhelm the north as I've been assuming, we don't need some army to go destroy the Boltons. They're toast anyway. But I do think Littlefinger will do something with the Vale army. He is a risk taker that wants to be king. And I think both show and books have been making a bit of a point of that unscathed Vale army being important. Varys even had an ominous line about "what happens when Littlefinger gets his army?" I hope that Tormund manages to get his people away from the Wall. I agree that they're in serious trouble if they stay there. But only the north is messed up enough that a few thousand wildlings can move in unmolested. I'm not sure where they could go to be safe. Davos might have ideas.
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Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 18:06:14 GMT
Pushing back Sam's departure from Castle Black changes things for both Sam and Jon, but I think the show did address those changes.
In the books, it was Jon's idea to send Sam, and it was part of a slew of forward-thinking policies coming from Jon. Jon was trying to protect Maester Aemon and Mance's son, but Jon also expected that Sam would come back in a few years as a maester.
In the show, when Jon agrees for Sam to go, it is much more fatalistic and more about saving his friend. Jon doesn't really believe that there will be a Night's Watch for Sam to maester over in a few years, but he also doesn't see the point in making Sam die at the Wall and doesn't want Sam and Gilly to be murdered by night's watchmen. So the show change takes a positive decision from Jon and turns it into a fatalistic decision to spare a friend from his duty. But this is Jon's first selfish decision in a long time, and we've seen a lot of strong leadership from Jon in S4-5 - Jon can take the hit. ShowJon won that election fairly because he'd impressed the men of the Night's Watch, not through Sam's manipulation. Jon won over some Wildlings through solid diplomacy. The timing of the decision to send Sam away isn't important in terms of the bigger stuff Jon has been doing.
The more interesting impact of the change is with Sam. The show took away Sam's big moment of manipulating the election, it is fitting that they give Sam something else. Figuring out how to save his arse is a lot less grand than getting Jon elected LC, but it is an important decision for his character. Sam never wanted to be a man of the Night's Watch, he seems to be an atheist, he doesn't feel conflicted about looking for vow loopholes, he doesn't feel family loyalty, he doesn't seem to care much about the realm - Sam just wants to take care of Gilly & lilSam and be there for his friends. But most of his friends are dead and Sam's been trying to figure out how to get away from the Wall with Gilly for a while now - he's thought it through. He's not accidentally or unwillingly abandoning Jon - he's deliberately taking advantage of a good figleaf to get the heck out of there.
Sam will feel guilty about leaving Jon alone, but he'll feel more relief that he got Gilly out in time.
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Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 14:50:21 GMT
Sansa and Theon bump into Littlefinger’s army. Littlefinger defeats the Boltons and takes over Winterfell.
The Boltons have a funeral for Sansa using Myranda’s body and a big cloak. Better for them that she be officially dead than at large. Roose reams Ramsay out for losing his wife. Ramsay tells Roose to shut up since Ramsay just won a big military victory. (It must have been deliberate that they showed Ramsay running around on the field but not Roose. I think leading the troops to victory will embolden Ramsay.)
After losing track of Sansa again, Brienne and Pod either end up in the Riverlands or at the Wall. If Stannis is alive, hopefully he makes it back to the Wall and takes the black. Brienne could be magnificent at the Wall with her Valyrian sword.
Jon and Melissandre go dormant for a while. Tormund either slaughters the night’s watchmen at Castle Black (sans Edd?) and takes over that castle or settles in a different castle along the Wall. Or maybe Tormund moves his people into Moat Cailin.
Davos goes with Tormund because Tormund has moppets. Or maybe Davos tries to leave with Stannis’ ships and gets captured by Euron.
I don’t think the northern lords will ever be much of a presence in the show. If Rickon pops up in season 6, I bet it will be with Tormund.
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Post by janicia on Jun 17, 2015 14:49:09 GMT
Propably something like @envie and @konradsmith speculated. I think Brienne will return to the Riverlands, where she'll meet Septon Meribald, travel with him, meet the Hound and possibly Jaime and then die. Maybe Brienne convinces Sansa to go south with her instead of north? Going north would be the obvious direction Ramsay would search since he assumes she'll try to run to Jon at the wall. If they head South, where would Brienne take Sansa that's safe? Riverrun? We have no idea what's going on there, but House Tully could at least provide a safe place for Sansa. They wouldn't likely choose the Vale/Eyrie since Littlefinger could have gone back there and I highly doubt Sansa will to back to him again. EDIT: Riverrun was under siege by the Freys in AFFC - I had to go back and look up where they left off when Blackfish escaped. Jaime was the one who negotiated the end of that siege and took Edmure hostage to Casterly Rock ... so if they actually have Jaime go to the Riverlands instead of King's Landing - maybe this could still happen in s6? Maybe this is how Jaime and Brienne reunite and help Sansa as a turnaround for the Starks? Then again, having her to back to the Eyrie would put her right back where she is in the books anyways. Littlefinger has to be removed first and foremost though. That has to end for it to move forward. In the show, I think the Freys have Riverrun now. As Brienne and Sandor discussed, there isn't anywhere safe for Sansa to go. Except the Vale. Sansa is surely furious with Littlefinger, but the only people that want Sansa to be alive at this point are Littlefinger, the Tyrells, and the Boltons, and the Tyrells would hand her over to Cersei if they thought it would get them out of their own problems.
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