|
Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 20:13:39 GMT
Was there outrage over how sexualized Arya was in the Mercy chapter? I felt uncomfortable with the groping and seducing and threats of rape in that chapter. It seems hard to imagine that either Arya or Sansa will lose their virginity to gentle partners that they love romantically in the books.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 17:21:06 GMT
Has anybody been keeping track of the bedrooms in Winterfell? I assumed that Sansa was given her old bedroom at Winterfell, though I don't remember us getting a good look at it in season 1. Is Ramsay's bedroom identifiably Brans? It didn't seem like Ramsay and Sansa were in the same room that Ramsay and Myranda had been in, but probably that was just the lighting and angles?
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 16:48:54 GMT
I feel kinda sorry for the girls who play the Sand Snakes now. There was an article linked on the official GoT facebook page a few hours ago, about how the one who plays Obara has mastered the fighting style or whatever, and all the comments, and I mean literally every single one, is extremely negative. I don't blame the actresses, especially because in interviews, they seem really passionate about the material, I think they were just horribly miscast. Also the costumes kinda suck, the fighting choreography is poor, and the writing and editing of all the Dorne scenes so far has been horrendous, to the point where it almost seems like a freaking parody. I don't know what went wrong here, Dorne in the books has a sombre atmosphere to it and the storyline itself is kinda slow paced and subtle, in the show, they have turned it into a dull revenge plot with almost no substance to it. I think they were trying to 'milk' the coolness factor of the Sand Snakes a little bit too much, and in the process, they have turned them into caricatures. Yeah, it must be painful for them to see the broadly negative reception. I'm not even sure they were miscast - they've had barely any lines and no good ones, the fight scene wasn't done properly, and their material has been so rushed that it doesn't make much sense. It all just seems under-resourced. And there was a big fan backlash to merging Arienne with Elaria and spending time in Dorne instead of the Iron Islands, so there was unusual negativity about the arc going into the season. It really doesn't seem like the specific actresses are more than 10% of the problem. The producers should have realized they had a weak Dornish arc going and shouldn't have hyped it as much in the pre-season promotion. It also sounds like many of the fight sequence issues were related to constraints from shooting in the location they chose for the Water Gardens, and somebody early in the process should have picked a different location with fewer constraints. Wasn't that a big part of the problem with Jon's adventures north of the Wall in earlier seasons too? The Dornish stuff should get better going forward. The Bronn / Tyene scene might be bad (though it could be fun and sexy, who knows). But then Doran should get a few good scenes to end out the season. And in season 6, the sand snakes will be diluted into other arcs and locations and will have meaningful things to do so they should work a lot better.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 14:26:40 GMT
@envie I also interpreted the fading fake haircolour as Sansa regaining some aspects in her personality again that resemble Catelyn, when she told Myranda straight that she knows about her affection for Ramsay. I loved that scene, because it was more dense than the previous Sansa/Myranda conversation and a better use of Myranda screentime. Yes, definitely washing the black out brought Sansa back to her true self. I never bought into the hokey "Darth Sansa" thing. I always thought she did that to fool Littlefinger and further her deception to him, not for us to think she was suddenly become a ruthless murderer or a living version of Stoneheart. Blech. By washing it out now, before she goes into this terrible marriage she's been trapped in, we see her willing to become vulnerable and herself again but still able to hold her head up. That's the theme of her 'courtesy armor' all through the books. It's all Sansa ever really had to her advantage. She's going to be ok though, I am quite certain of it and they did a fantastic job of making her look very regal and almost ethereal in her wedding dress and walking through those lanterns in the snow. A true Queen of the North! I'm glad you brought up the hair washing scene parallels. I thought those were really good. Arya was washing the hair of people who had lost their lives. Sansa was losing virginity and innocence. Arya is a person that does things to other people while Sansa has been a person that has things done to them. But Sansa sent Myranda away and finished washing her hair on her own. Sansa's hair dye was washed away, abandoning deception. Sansa is trying to step into the light as a formidable Lady Stark of Winterfell instead of being a pretty little bird that says the right things or a silly dreamer. But Arya is trying to move further into deceptions and abandon her Stark identity. The dye bring wrung out of Sansa's hair was a dark image that foreshadowed Sansa's rape and the darkness of her situation. In contrast, Arya seemed to be at peace and safe, and there was kindness and respect in the way we've seen the House of Black and White administer suicide.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 20, 2015 12:58:33 GMT
I'd rather Roose kill Ramsay than Sansa or Theon. Roose would do it thoroughly, and wouldn't be traumatized by the proceeding. And with any luck, Ramsay would manage to kill Roose while dying. I have a hunch that Sansa will wreck havoc on the Boltons by having Roose think Ramsey has done something to Walda. It would be the easiest way to rid herself of Ramsey and show what she's really learned from her time with LF: ridding herself of an enemy while keeping her hands clean. That's a good point. I think that would happen in the form of Sansa goading Ramsay into killing Walda, rather than Sansa framing Ramsay for it.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 20:18:41 GMT
What do you suppose will go down with the Dany / Hizdahr wedding? Hizdahr seems to be terrified of Dany, and I wonder if the show will want to counterbalance the Sansa / Ramsay scene. I am looking forward to seeing a Mereenese wedding. I may be wrong here, but I thought the reopening of Daznak's Pit was part of their wedding celebration? If so, I doubt we'll see that marriage consummated. This is from spoilers btw, not what we've seen on the show. Fair point. But they could marry -> consummate -> go to the pits. Or something. Isn't that what happened in the book? Dany isn't Ramsay, and she wouldn't brutalize her spouse. But I could see her telling a nervous Hizdahr "take off your clothes" (which would echo Ramsay's line to Sansa, while also echoing Dany's first night with a consenting Dario). And I think she would seek to maintain her dominance over Hizdahr during consummation.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 18:47:27 GMT
What do you suppose will go down with the Dany / Hizdahr wedding? Hizdahr seems to be terrified of Dany, and I wonder if the show will want to counterbalance the Sansa / Ramsay scene.
I am looking forward to seeing a Mereenese wedding.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 18:05:20 GMT
That scene certainly puts the Cersei / Robert marriage into context (and justifies Cersei's fury over Tyrion arranging a match for Myrcella), and even sheds some light into the early Catelyn / Ned marriage. Ramsay chose to be cruel, but a lot of those marriages involved people who did not want to have sex with each other, thrown into a room and expected to consummate. It is kind of weird seeing people say "Walda and Roose look happy together, they're a good couple" when really their entire model of marriage is that Walda knows her place. She talks when Roose prompts her to and otherwise keeps her mouth shut. She has no expectation of input into important family decisions. Maybe Walda thinks this life is an improvement over living at the Twins, which seemed utterly miserable. Or maybe Walda just fears the consequences of upsetting Roose. Women are subjugated in Westerosi marriages. And marital rape is part of that.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 15:04:54 GMT
So, I've assume forever that Stannis will die in the Battle of Winterfell. I've also heard people make good arguments for the Boltons dying. So, now I'm trying to guess based on what moves the plot best. If there were no more Stannis or no more Boltons, which force would be most lacking from the plot next season, the northern villains or the hero/king contender? Edited to address the point of the OP: I can't talk you down. I fear for Shireen. My guess for season 6 is that somebody will obliterate the Freys, Dany will invade Westeros, and the White Walkers will get past the Wall. Stannis and the Boltons will all die in the excitement. I think anybody who doesn't get out of the north soon is toast. (Though I do think Davos and Sansa will both make it out in time, and Jon and Melissandre have their own survival mechanisms.) With Dany coming as the new hero/king contender, Stannis becomes less important in that role. Some of these struggles have to start wrapping up to make way for the final struggles. The Lannister / Tyrell struggle also needs to wrap up.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 14:44:27 GMT
With 4 episodes left, I feel like Sansa, Theon, and Brienne's plot is largely accounted for this season. Sansa and Theon conspire to escape in 5x07 and light their candle, and Brienne helps them actually escape in 5x09ish. I don't see space for Shireen in what they're doing, so I doubt she is captured by the Boltons or Brienne. And presumably either Fat Walda or Myranda or both is going to be killed in an inter-Bolton power struggle. It doesn't make much sense to put Shireen inside Winterfell when there is already plenty going on there.
I also don't see her just being killed in a Ramsay raid. Shireen and Selyse could have easily been left at Dragonstone in season 3 for character economy. Melissandre's insistence that Shireen needs to come, Shireen's screen time at the Wall and the show's harping on greyscale all seem to be building toward something bigger than Ramsay suddenly slitting her throat.
I had hoped that Shireen would go with Sam and Gilly, but they are probably leaving the Wall soon and Shireen isn't likely to get back there in time to catch the boat. Anyway, the Night's Watch "kidnapping" Stannis' daughter would be a kind of bizarre plot point that would create a butterfly effect.
Melissandre vs. Davos is the most likely story with Shireen this season, with Yara as a possible wildcard, I think. Melissandre and Davos are both willing to go behind Stannis' back to do what they see as necessary regarding Shireen. And presumably Yara is going to emerge in the Stannis story at some point. The aftermath of whatever happens might be the reason that Melissandre ends up back at the Wall, or the reason that Davos goes off on solo adventures away from Stannis.
I'd also say that just because the show put a target on Shireen doesn't mean she's doomed anytime soon. The leach prophesy still hasn't paid off with Balon's death; Tommen and Myrcella are alive and well despite the shroud prophesy, Dany's baby died soon after the "Stallion that mounts the world" prophesy. I know there is a lot going on with the interpretation of many of the prophesies, I'm just saying that there has been misleading foreshadowing in the show, and the books absolutely revel in misdirection.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 14:04:46 GMT
We already have two characters down, dead to other reasons that don't involve Starks. I was hoping Robb (or Sansa) would chop Joffrey's head off, that some Stark would get Tywin (it was Tyrion), Theon has been tortured by Ramsey-I think whatever punishment he would gotten from a Stark would have been kinder, Roose Bolton is probably going to die by Stannis's hand, Ramsey probably by someone's else's hand for a very good reason, Walder Frey and his family are not very well liked, show wise a Faceless Man might take them out. I would love to see Arya get some people on her hit list but I bet she doesn't. Oh and Cersei and Jaime will probably kill each other. Littlefinger's role in Ned's betrayal isn't well known, so unless some major revelation happens, someone else (Varys?) will probably kill him. While I would not miss any of these characters, the thought that their demises will come around not via a Stark depresses me. In general, I don't see the "good guys" getting revenge in this series very often. Partly because pursuit of revenge, particularly in the face of existential threats, makes you not a good guy. Also bad guys inherently have a higher body count than good guys, so a lot of the deaths just have to be fairly bad people killed by other fairly bad people. Janos Slynt's execution was carefully worked to give a Jon a "noble" reason to kill Slynt that incidentally allowed a Stark to take revenge against a Stark enemy. And Arya has managed to kill a few people she wanted dead though at some point she needs bigger, better goals. And surely the Freys are going to be wiped off the map by agents of house Stark. But I'd like some Starks to keep their hands clean so I can feel good about them having power at the end of this whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 2:30:00 GMT
For me, I want to see Sansa make a decision on what she's going to do next and I want time spent on her reaction and processing. Not just crying, not just suddenly trying to stab Ramsay.
I thought that was the most valid criticism of Jaime raping Cersei in season 4 - if you're going to do that, spend some time on Cersei responding specifically to the rape in some way. When Jaime's hand was cut off, we saw in his emotional response that something traumatic had happened. We saw him become despondent. We saw him decide to be brave in the face of his violator. We saw he was ashamed and scared to be a cripple, but trying to mask that with bravado. And now he's adjusting to a new normal. When Tyrion's face was wounded, we saw his fear that Shae wouldn't love him anymore and his impotent anger at Joffrey. We've also seen some of Theon's emotional reaction to losing his cock. I want to see Sansa expressing fear and pain, because those are natural responses to what happened to her, and I want to see her expressing something else too.
GoT has always been interested in Sansa's thoughts. We saw her first kiss, her first love fall from starry heights to nightmare horrors. We saw her fear turning to resignation and embarrassment over her period. We saw her humiliation and fear and relief at her first wedding. Her happiness with friendships and pain of losses. It seems inconceivable that they wouldn't continue to dwell in Sansa's headspace at this crucial point. At some level, that's why we all care so much about Sansa, right? The show has spent a lot of time taking us through every step of Sansa's sexual maturation.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 1:44:20 GMT
I loved the way Iain Glen read the line "Do you ever shut up?" He was surprisingly perky for someone who just caught greyscale I think Jorah is always so unhappy that it is hard to make him much more depressed. Really makes you wonder what Jorah would have been like if he had married more happily. With his easy person-ability, ready competence, and sense of humor, he should have been popular in the North.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 1:33:38 GMT
I'd rather Roose kill Ramsay than Sansa or Theon. Roose would do it thoroughly, and wouldn't be traumatized by the proceeding. And with any luck, Ramsay would manage to kill Roose while dying.
I'd rather the Starks achieve the revenge of surviving and thriving. Not expecting many of them to, of course, but I'd rather that than to see them became agents of vengeance.
Though I do kind of hope that Stannis has to face Brienne at some point. He kind of shouldn't get away with not thinking about it. He used blood magic to kill his brother. That has consequences. I don't want Brienne to kill him necessarily, but I do want him to have to face her fury and anguish.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 1:17:18 GMT
I also liked Tyrion and Jorah together. Not just the scene about the fathers, but also them dealing with the capture by slavers. Tyrion was going out on a limb and hoping that Jorah would understand what he was up to and back him up. And Jorah came through, to Tyrion's evident relief. Gosh, it is fun to see Tyrion working toward concrete goals again, even though his goals aren't very lofty. "get Jorah to give me wine" "have a conversation with Jorah in which he doesn't hit me" "keep my blood inside my body".
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 0:51:20 GMT
I still don't think it makes sense. It made sense to stay in the Vale where Sansa was the safest, wait for Stannis to take Winterfell, then bring Sansa there. Of course that would make more sense, they shoehorned this plot in to get Sansa to Winterfell to replace Jeyne, but it never made any sense. Since Stannis was at the Wall with Jon, I think it does make some sense for Littlefinger to want to put Sansa in Winterfell. It was obvious that Stannis would try to legitimize Jon and take Winterfell. If Jon liberated Winterfell and then used the wintertime to consolidate his power, it would be hard to displace him for Sansa (female, younger, tainted by marriage to Tyrion). It is super risky to put Sansa there, but Littlefinger was making Sansa take the risks. But sure, it is kinda silly. I think it is forgivable because it puts Sansa in the action. Speaking of people being put in the action, I hope to see Yara soon.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 0:36:59 GMT
It was a small moment, but I liked that Trystane noticed the blood on Bronn and went for his sword. Futile, sure. But Arya would have done the same and it was neat he got to be feisty.
The Dornish stuff just doesn't seem to be getting enough time to work - the Myrcella abduction was minimized down so much that it became kind of silly. And it seems like there are too many Sandsnakes given that they have so little to do. My guess is that they'll work better in seasons 6-7 once they split up and get out of Dorne. Which is probably why they needed to be actresses rather than stuntwomen, and why they went with the Sandsnakes instead of the Greyjoys. I am looking forward to Myrcella talking to Jaime though.
I'm guessing Cersei won't set fire to the Red Keep this season if she hasn't done it already. I was looking forward to that scene, but Cersei hasn't been acting crazy enough for it really - would be out of place for her.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 19, 2015 0:12:18 GMT
So, why exactly did Olyvar testify against the Tyrells? He was beaten by the Sparrows twice, in eps 3 and 4... Now he is in coup with them. Did I miss something about Littlefinger and Cersei making plans about that? I imagine he's concerned for his life. His predecessor was imprisoned and beaten up by Cersei's thugs on the charge of being the mistress of somebody Cersei didn't like. Then she was given to Joffrey for target practice by Littlefinger. So Olyvar can't count on personal protection from Littlefinger or the Lannister house. And then the Sparrows made the High Septon do a walk of shame, murdered one of Olyvar's gay clients, and arrested Loras. If they can do those kinds of things to the rich and powerful, there is nothing stopping them from torturing or murdering Olyvar. He cooperated because he didn't want to die. Maybe Cersei also bribed him, but Olyvar couldn't have thought he had much choice in the matter. And Olyvar might have never felt personal loyalty to Loras. As a prostitute sent to spy on somebody, it would be smarter to avoid developing feelings.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 18, 2015 23:25:12 GMT
I think Varys might kill her at the end of the season. It seems likely that she'll be the one running Kings Landing at that point, not Kevan. It would be a sad scene, since Varys and Olenna did actually like each other. And Olenna's death would deliver the book 5 epilogue gut-punch in a way that Kevan's death never could.
But since they bothered to re-introduce Kevan, that probably means Olenna is safe for now.
|
|